What's a living wage in Detroit? What are obstacles to employment?

[frostbyter]

Hi, I've never been to Detroit, so I don't know much about the cost of living there. But I'm curious to find out from people who live there how much a single parent of, say, two young children needs to earn in order to live modestly but independently? $10/hour? $20/hour?

Also, what are some of the obstacles to employment confronting a lot of the unemployed in Detroit? This is a huge, complex problem, I know. But one way to solve it is to eliminate the obstacles that prevent people from working. Before you can eliminate the obstacles, you have to first identify them. From what I've been reading regarding Detroit, here are the obstacles that I know of:

Illiteracy
lack of personal transportation
auto insurance too expensive
unreliable public transportation
lack of jobs for unskilled labor

But I'm curious if other obstacles exist? Like, a lot of people are having problems with water shutoffs, so I was wondering if lack of access to bathing and laundry facilities is also a significant obstacle to employment for many in Detroit.

What about access to affordable child care? Is it cheap or super expensive to have your kid in daycare? Are there enough daycare centers around?

Or, what about training opportunities? If people are motivated, are there enough resources available for them to improve their skills? Or get an education?

Please share your insight. Thanks.

[chuckles]

$15.00per hour or $30000 year minimum...
Positives...Riverfront, River use, Sports, Ethnic diversity, Cultural events ...
Negatives...High crime, no local malls or Grocery stores, too much welfare, poverty, etc

[313WX]

$20/hr, at least [[assuming you have full benefits).

$15/hr would only be livable if you don't have kids, don't need health insurance, car insurance and don't have to pay city taxes.

[Honky Tonk]

What Are Obstacles To Employment?

No jobs?

[middetres]

What am I doing wrong? I average about $25/hour. I'm single, no kids, and I barely get by. I couldn't imagine making less and having 2 kids to support. At this point even getting a dog would be a financial burden...

[Spartan]

What am I doing wrong? I average about $25/hour. I'm single, no kids, and I barely get by. I couldn't imagine making less and having 2 kids to support. At this point even getting a dog would be a financial burden...

I would say you're spending too much money...

[sumas]

Being frugal works.

There are some great schools with affordable latch key programs. Housing is cheap but going up. Public transit sucks. Car insurance insane. I've owned my fair share of beaters.

I love my city but it is not for everyone.

[Honky Tonk]

What am I doing wrong? I average about $25/hour. I'm single, no kids, and I barely get by. I couldn't imagine making less and having 2 kids to support. At this point even getting a dog would be a financial burden...

It's those $100 wallets.....

[Scottathew]

What am I doing wrong? I average about $25/hour. I'm single, no kids, and I barely get by. I couldn't imagine making less and having 2 kids to support. At this point even getting a dog would be a financial burden...

Cut cable. Cut your home phone line. Go to a cheap cellular plan like Republic Wireless. Never buy a new car or lease a car; always buy used. Don't go to the movie theater, borrow movies for free from the library. Don't eat out.

I do all those things, I live a happy fulfilled life, and I'm saving money hand over fist for retirement.

[Zacha341]

I can sign on re. never buying a new car. Unless you can pay off in three years, the five+ year financing is a racket, coupled with sky-high insurance. A used car not need be a wreck. Just purchase cars that you see running, that are strong runners. I don't do cable either. I use internet TV which is now getting popular as many are fatigued with sky high cable bills!

Cut cable. Cut your home phone line. Go to a cheap cellular plan like Republic Wireless. Never buy a new car or lease a car; always buy used. Don't go to the movie theater, borrow movies for free from the library. Don't eat out.

I do all those things, I live a happy fulfilled life, and I'm saving money hand over fist for retirement.

[G-DDT]

I can sign on re. never buying a new car. Unless you can pay off in three years, the five+ year financing is a racket, coupled with sky-high insurance. A used car not need be a wreck. Just purchase cars that you see running, that are strong runners.

Beware of dealers if you do go the used car route! Network with friends or cautiously cruise the internet for private car sellers you can talk to well. It helps to have a trusted mechanics [[sympathetic to your financial means) who will take the time to look under the hood [[free of charge) and advise you if this car is a good investment with minimal repairs [[as much as that may mean fewer trips to him). Find a mechanic who knows what's under the hood, because you got lots of dealers hacking the onboard computer so it will register "fine" with the superficial computer diagnostics devices they hook cars up to, but the insides got some flaws. I remember being in N.Y.C. with a friend who took his Pontiac to a Getty's [[is that right?) service station, where they told him his brake discs were "glazed" and would cost a lot. He tracked down a buddy and sponsor from AA, a real outspoken gearhead who checked it out and told him what less costly things actually had to be done [["'Glazed' is what you get on donuts." he said.).

Also, it used to be "Consumer Reports" magazine had better teeth for incisively addressing and tackling issues about consumer awareness and was not afraid to call out certain companies [[something that has changed drastically from the last Bush years that I'm not to happy about-and I have the stack of magazines going back to the 1980's to compare the change)-be it about cars, health, housewares, insurance, gimmicks, etc. Get Consumer Aware! Also, if style doesn't concern you that much, than be pragmatic and avoid the high cost of being affectatious and superficially stylish when it come to shopping for clothes, cars, and other such things.

[canuck]

Beware of dealers if you do go the used car route! Network with friends or cautiously cruise the internet for private car sellers you can talk to well. It helps to have a trusted mechanics [[sympathetic to your financial means) who will take the time to look under the hood [[free of charge) and advise you if this car is a good investment with minimal repairs [[as much as that may mean fewer trips to him). Find a mechanic who knows what's under the hood, because you got lots of dealers hacking the onboard computer so it will register "fine" with the superficial computer diagnostics devices they hook cars up to, but the insides got some flaws. I remember being in N.Y.C. with a friend who took his Pontiac to a Getty's [[is that right?) service station, where they told him his brake discs were "glazed" and would cost a lot. He tracked down a buddy and sponsor from AA, a real outspoken gearhead who checked it out and told him what less costly things actually had to be done [["'Glazed' is what you get on donuts." he said.).

Also, it used to be "Consumer Reports" magazine had better teeth for incisively addressing and tackling issues about consumer awareness and was not afraid to call out certain companies [[something that has changed drastically from the last Bush years that I'm not to happy about-and I have the stack of magazines going back to the 1980's to compare the change)-be it about cars, health, housewares, insurance, gimmicks, etc. Get Consumer Aware! Also, if style doesn't concern you that much, than be pragmatic and avoid the high cost of being affectatious and superficially stylish when it come to shopping for clothes, cars, and other such things.

I can't get away from being stylish, and the timing's just right, I kicked out my old un-hip musicians, hired new ones, started a new band, couldn't find a name for the life of me.

My new band will be called; "Glazed Brakes", thanks to you. JFK

[Gpwrangler]

Beware of dealers if you do go the used car route! Network with friends or cautiously cruise the internet for private car sellers you can talk to well. It helps to have a trusted mechanics [[sympathetic to your financial means) who will take the time to look under the hood [[free of charge) and advise you if this car is a good investment with minimal repairs [[as much as that may mean fewer trips to him). Find a mechanic who knows what's under the hood, because you got lots of dealers hacking the onboard computer so it will register "fine" with the superficial computer diagnostics devices they hook cars up to, but the insides got some flaws. I remember being in N.Y.C. with a friend who took his Pontiac to a Getty's [[is that right?) service station, where they told him his brake discs were "glazed" and would cost a lot. He tracked down a buddy and sponsor from AA, a real outspoken gearhead who checked it out and told him what less costly things actually had to be done [["'Glazed' is what you get on donuts." he said.).

Also, it used to be "Consumer Reports" magazine had better teeth for incisively addressing and tackling issues about consumer awareness and was not afraid to call out certain companies [[something that has changed drastically from the last Bush years that I'm not to happy about-and I have the stack of magazines going back to the 1980's to compare the change)-be it about cars, health, housewares, insurance, gimmicks, etc. Get Consumer Aware! Also, if style doesn't concern you that much, than be pragmatic and avoid the high cost of being affectatious and superficially stylish when it come to shopping for clothes, cars, and other such things.

Pads and shoes can indeed become "glazed" from a sticking caliper, improper adjustment or heavy use. Corrosion on aluminum wheels on the front of a car is a bad sign.

[chuckles]

Move out of the Penthouse, sell the Ferrai, sell the Yacht, stop eating out every night, cut back on the weekend partying, quit buying the expensive suits, knock it down a few notches.
$50 grand I plenty...

[middetres]

Move out of the Penthouse, sell the Ferrai, sell the Yacht, stop eating out every night, cut back on the weekend partying, quit buying the expensive suits, knock it down a few notches.
$50 grand I plenty...

I don't live in a penthouse, but the 2nd floor of a 3-story walk-up. I agree it's woefully over-priced, but it's near everything and allows me to walk a lot. I don't want to give that up.

I don't own a car at all, nor even a canoe. I don't even have a bus pass. And, no I don't have a $1500 bike. My 15-year old bike was stolen and hasn't been replaced yet.

I don't own any suits...I haven't worn a tie since 1992 [[and that was part of my server uniform). My wardrobe is sadly Old Navy and Target heavy. I've bought one pair of shoes in the last two years.

I have three meals out a week at the most [[two dinner, one breakfast or lunch) and my in-house grocery budget is $40/week. I don't starve, but far from eat out all the time.

And it now takes a week for me to recover from only one night of partying, so few and far between on that.

It seems like money doesn't go nearly as far as it used to. I lived on much less and did a lot more of the above and never felt like I was just getting by...

But I know some people have it much worse than me, so I'm very grateful for what I have.

[Downriviera]

Frostbyter,

We do have people coming here with creative plans but we need more. Love your ideas and hope you can get here.

[G-DDT]

It seems like money doesn't go nearly as far as it used to. I lived on much less and did a lot more of the above and never felt like I was just getting by...

But I know some people have it much worse than me, so I'm very grateful for what I have.

Used to be a day I had a spacious room in a well-heated, cockroach-free, large punk rock house [[where noone in the neighborhood would dare mess with us) for $65 a month [[+utilities, of course). My diet was abysmal then [[probably what contributed to the damage and blood sugar condition I have now); I probably wouldn't have gone through that part if I didn't spend my meager wage from the gas station in Southfield on $1.85 packs of smokes and other crud.

It's funny....back then, it was commonly accepted that less was more, and we got by just fine. No status seeking or anything [[which reminds me, Canuck, maybe you should name your first song "No canoes is good canoes" ). If things got tight the first utility to get dropped was always phone. We got by just fine without one, because there was always a roommate, neighbor, or family member who can relate any message if it was just that dang important.

Detroit living is actually way cheaper than New York and Boston living [[plus you don't need to keep feeding a Charlie Card-though our mass transit is also, by far, the worst). Get around more and you will find the places to trust [[been to Buddy's pizza on Conant or Polish Village Cafe in Hamtramck?). With dining, you get really filling hearty food in big portions for real cheap [[with leftovers to boot). Plus, if Eastern Market is still what it was then, a visit there will have you coming back home with two giant crates of strawberries [[or two giant sacks of potatoes) saying to yourself "What was I thinking, what am I going to do with all of...well, I guess I can give a few to this person and that."

[sumas]

Used to be a day I had a spacious room in a well-heated, cockroach-free, large punk rock house [[where noone in the neighborhood would dare mess with us) for $65 a month [[+utilities, of course). My diet was abysmal then [[probably what contributed to the damage and blood sugar condition I have now); I probably wouldn't have gone through that part if I didn't spend my meager wage from the gas station in Southfield on $1.85 packs of smokes and other crud.

It's funny....back then, it was commonly accepted that less was more, and we got by just fine. No status seeking or anything [[which reminds me, Canuck, maybe you should name your first song "No canoes is good canoes" ). If things got tight the first utility to get dropped was always phone. We got by just fine without one, because there was always a roommate, neighbor, or family member who can relate any message if it was just that dang important.

Detroit living is actually way cheaper than New York and Boston living [[plus you don't need to keep feeding a Charlie Card-though our mass transit is also, by far, the worst). Get around more and you will find the places to trust [[been to Buddy's pizza on Conant or Polish Village Cafe in Hamtramck?). With dining, you get really filling hearty food in big portions for real cheap [[with leftovers to boot). Plus, if Eastern Market is still what it was then, a visit there will have you coming back home with two giant crates of strawberries [[or two giant sacks of potatoes) saying to yourself "What was I thinking, what am I going to do with all of...well, I guess I can give a few to this person and that."

Eastern Market is still awesome. Never bought 2 crates of strawberries though. We get one. wash and dry well lightly sugar and freeze in zipper bags. Take them to neighbors.

Detroiters take care of each other.

I feel no shame going to food distribtion centers. They call it now commodity distributions. Mostly we take this stuff to neighbors without cars. Once was given 80# of onions and frankly thought oh Shit! no problems distributing however.

For a clever person, it isn't hard to find rental housing for reasonable.

[Spartan]

...I'm curious to find out from people who live there how much a single parent of, say, two young children needs to earn in order to live modestly but independently? $10/hour? $20/hour?

I would argue that number is around $20/hr or $30k salary with benefits. Detroit overall has a fairly low cost of living, but obviously there are areas that you wouldn't want to raise a family. $30k salary would provide somewhere around $1750 per month. Factoring in about $1000 for rent, $300 for food and other necessities, $250-300 for car ownership, you are left with about $150-200 per month for leisure and luxury expenses, which I think is a reasonable amount. To live "comfortably," I think somewhere around 40k would be the minimum.

Also, what are some of the obstacles to employment confronting a lot of the unemployed in Detroit?

I think there are three main factors:

1. A disconnect between the job market and the workforce. There are plenty of jobs in certain industries, but they don't match up with the workforce available in the area. The region was built on labor and industry, but as those jobs have vanished, the people who held those positions are left a bit out in the cold. Due to the poor economy, the state has experienced a lot of "brain drain" leaving the jobs available without qualified applicants. It's not so much a lack of jobs or a lack of workers, but more that the two don't overlap enough.

2. Difficulty of transportation. Due to high insurance costs and lack of reliable public transportation, it can be difficult for many people to get to work. Even if the jobs and the workforce matched in the region, they would have to be in the same vicinity so the workers can get there reliably [[without having to walk 21 miles per day).

3. Poor education. This causes two problems: people who have secure employment and bring in higher tax dollars tend to move farther outside the core of the region, spreading out wealth. Second, it causes the employable workforce to decrease significantly. People who grew up here don't receive the education necessary to reload the workforce every few years. I believe one of the top reasons that Detroit has fallen as hard as it has is a lack of top-level and diversity of university education in the city.

[Wesley Mouch]

...Also, what are some of the obstacles to employment confronting a lot of the unemployed in Detroit? This is a huge, complex problem, I know. But one way to solve it is to eliminate the obstacles that prevent people from working. Before you can eliminate the obstacles, you have to first identify them. From what I've been reading regarding Detroit, here are the obstacles that I know of:

Illiteracy
lack of personal transportation
auto insurance too expensive
unreliable public transportation
lack of jobs for unskilled labor

But I'm curious if other obstacles exist? Like, a lot of people are having problems with water shutoffs, so I was wondering if lack of access to bathing and laundry facilities is also a significant obstacle to employment for many in Detroit.

What about access to affordable child care? Is it cheap or super expensive to have your kid in daycare? Are there enough daycare centers around?

Or, what about training opportunities? If people are motivated, are there enough resources available for them to improve their skills? Or get an education?

Please share your insight. Thanks.

I'd add to your list...
-poor public school system
-reverse racism attitude
-populist politicians who prefer to chase unicorns like residency requirements rather than school reform
-rigid skilled labor market with high degree of control by unions against the low-skilled

And no, water shut-offs is not a widespread problem. It was just a political football being tossed around. Water is quite cheap in Detroit and high quality, as you might expect when you realize that we probably have the highest flow of [[nearly) drinkable freshwater passing Detroit in the river of any major city in North America except perhaps Montreal. The big problem was that the water system was delinquent in doing turnoffs for non-payment in the past, and radical anti-corporate nuts used a minor issue to generate mistrust.

[Dan Wesson]

Hi, I've never been to Detroit, so I don't know much about the cost of living there. But I'm curious to find out from people who live there how much a single parent of, say, two young children needs to earn in order to live modestly but independently? $10/hour? $20/hour?

Question for you. Why Detroit?

[ndavies]

There are numerous cost of living comparison tools on the web.

Here's one:
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/

Type in the city you live in, your wages and the city you want to live in. It will tell you how much you need to earn to keep the same lifestyle.

If you have a STEM degree there are huge numbers of job opening in the near suburbs. There's big demand for programmers, engineers and health care professionals. [[However those people are in demand across the country and you may get a better job somewhere else.)

[Gpwrangler]

There are numerous cost of living comparison tools on the web.

Here's one:
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/

Type in the city you live in, your wages and the city you want to live in. It will tell you how much you need to earn to keep the same lifestyle.

If you have a STEM degree there are huge numbers of job opening in the near suburbs. There's big demand for programmers, engineers and health care professionals. [[However those people are in demand across the country and you may get a better job somewhere else.)

STEM jobs are out there but most are in the suburbs, 15 or 20 mile commute from Detroit. Figure $1500 a month just to own and insure a car. Add on from there.

[Shai_Hulud]

STEM jobs are out there but most are in the suburbs, 15 or 20 mile commute from Detroit. Figure $1500 a month just to own and insure a car. Add on from there.

How do you get $1,500 a month? With two adult drivers and one new car with full coverage, and one with liability in Detroit my premium wasn't quite $300 a month.

[Gpwrangler]

How do you get $1,500 a month? With two adult drivers and one new car with full coverage, and one with liability in Detroit my premium wasn't quite $300 a month.

Car payment, fuel, insurance. For the average person. I don't pay that much but I fix what I drive and can afford to buy used and keep them to 200k miles plus.