Bedrock: Killing Detroit Since 2010.

[313WX]

The question isn't whether Michigan is, relative to other states, a lot poorer than it was 40 or 50 years ago. There is no doubt that is true. The median Michigander might even be poorer now than 40 years ago on an absolute basis, at least if you look strictly at real wages. Our differences are not on that point.

Fair enough

You seemed to be claiming three things:

1) That staying in Michigan was tantamount to martyrdom.

Perhaps the issue you have is you think that claim is harsh, but it's accurate for the reasons you described.

If the state is poorer and offers people a far lower standard of living before, wouldn't one more or less be a martyr by trying to sick around, especially if they have the choice to be in a place where they can most certainly have and do better?

2) That there had been no improvement since the bottom of the recession.

The improvements have been marginal at best, and really the only ones who truly think these marginal improvements mean things are back to pre-recession norms are those who are either out-of-touch or benefit politically.

In the grand scheme of things, despite 5 years since the last recession, there are still a record number of people out of the workforce, far fewer good-paying jobs and a record number of people dependent on the government. Again, none of the aforementioned should still be the case in a 5-year economic recovery in America.

3) That another recession is imminent.

Yes, I do believe another recession is imminent. Besides the reasons I listed above, the stock market bubble we're in has tripled in value since 2009 without any crashes. The last time there was an economic "growth" period that lasted longer than 7 years without a correction was 1903. Otherwise, a correction has always happened every 7 years.

Could the "rally" we're in now continue beyond 2015? Anything's possible, but that's doubtful.

Much of the thanks goes to the FED with it setting the interest rate so low and its multiple rounds of money printing. Even it admitted the markets would likely drop at least 50% if not for its assistance. The thing is, QE has finally ended and the FED is now contemplating raising the interest rate, since it can't stay at record lows forever.

[mikeg19]

1) Basically one of the dumbest thread starters on here in awhile. And that's saying something.

2) Without Gilbert, downtown would be 10 times worse than it was before the recession. He's not "robbing people" by any means. So I don't know where that idiotic comment came from.

3) Yea, the stock market will not continue to hover around 18,000 or better, but I don't think were gonna in for another complete collapse. I don't think were in for a 8,000 point drop, but 14,000-15,000 seems realistic.

[Bham1982]

The improvements have been marginal at best, and really the only ones who truly think these marginal improvements mean things are back to pre-recession norms are those who are either out-of-touch or benefit politically.

The markets are at near-record highs [[most households have a stake in the markets), home values are at record highs [[most Americans are homeowners) salaries are up, unemployment is down, household debt is lower. Certainly things are far from ideal, but it would be hard to argue that, on average, Americans aren't feeling somewhat more prosperous than a few years ago.

[Bham1982]

2) Without Gilbert, downtown would be 10 times worse than it was before the recession. He's not "robbing people" by any means. So I don't know where that idiotic comment came from.

This is silly. Gilbert has done nothing but buy buildings and play musical chairs with taxpayer dollars. Gilbert himself has little to do with downtown's long-term prospects, which are more dependent on macro trends.

[Scottathew]

This is silly. Gilbert has done nothing but buy buildings and play musical chairs with taxpayer dollars. Gilbert himself has little to do with downtown's long-term prospects, which are more dependent on macro trends.

I don't agree with that. Gilbert has been the catalyst for jobs and development downtown. A lot of it simply wouldn't have happened without him. You even admit within your own statement that "musical chairs [within the region]" is happening because of Gilbert.

[mikeg19]

This is silly. Gilbert has done nothing but buy buildings and play musical chairs with taxpayer dollars. Gilbert himself has little to do with downtown's long-term prospects, which are more dependent on macro trends.

Typically, I'd agree with you on the macroeconomic trends more so being tied to Detroit's long term success. But I have to disagree that Gilbert has done nothing for downtown besides buy buildings and swap out a few companies. Thousands of new/retained jobs in Detroit coupled with massive investment on a local, national, and international scale can't be ignored. Downtown would be in a far, far worse situation than it currently is in if DG hadn't come in and started investing.

[Mackinaw]

Jw this is such nonsense, so disconnected from basic understanding of reality and markets.

"Detroit's a work class city." Hell yeah it is. So that means nice stuff cannot exist? That means people with means are...scorned? Turned away? That means no rooftop bars, clothing stores? Does this mean downtown should be a combination of crumbling buildings, dive bars, tattoo parlors and strip clubs? Oh, maybe the City government should "put in" a dollar tree? This isn't how it works, and I'm sorry that economics was not a required course in your primary school.

You clearly have no positive aspirations for Detroit nor any understanding of how development occurs. It takes people: residents and visitors and workers, creating demand. You cannot control what they demand, nor who does business there to cater to their demands. But apparently you believe in a control economy where government should throw out tenants to cater to the "rich" and open up low-rent places for you. That's a childish and wrong belief. Go to Seattle and let us know whether you find this version of paradise. Spoiler alert: you won't. You will find the world's largest chain coffee brand everywhere though! Enjoy!

[Enduro]

The other day, I had a conversation with a Bedrock employee. Apparently, the company HAD plans to build a restaurant on top of One Woodward [[5/3 Bank Building), but the city wouldn't let them. Why? THEY WERE GOING TO ROB PEOPLE! Bedrock and Gilbert has great plans, but, let's jump into reality- seriously? THIS IS DETROIT! A city built on the working class, and today is one of the poorest, most dangerous cities in the country.

What the hell does this even mean? Was the concept of the restaurant to rob people before or after the meal? Were residents forced to go to this establishment? Do you feel restaurants inherently evil? I'm confused and amused.

[bailey]

This is silly. Gilbert has done nothing but buy buildings and play musical chairs with taxpayer dollars. Gilbert himself has little to do with downtown's long-term prospects, which are more dependent on macro trends.

Still not in the same league as Olympia in terms of fleecing the public. Actually, to me Gilbert represents the correct way to incentivize/prime the pump for investment. Selling derelict parcels for nominal amounts and giving incentives to get workers downtown is miles from billions for stadiums.

[mwilbert]

This is silly. Gilbert has done nothing but buy buildings and play musical chairs with taxpayer dollars. Gilbert himself has little to do with downtown's long-term prospects, which are more dependent on macro trends.

I'd be the last one to dismiss the macro trends as unimportant, but it takes more than that. I found this interesting: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...anghai/390873/

[hewettbr]

troll much?

The other day, I had a conversation with a Bedrock employee. Apparently, the company HAD plans to build a restaurant on top of One Woodward [[5/3 Bank Building), but the city wouldn't let them. Why? THEY WERE GOING TO ROB PEOPLE! Bedrock and Gilbert has great plans, but, let's jump into reality- seriously? THIS IS DETROIT! A city built on the working class, and today is one of the poorest, most dangerous cities in the country.

He's playing hometown hero by buying up everything and filling the buildings up, that's good. What's NOT good is luring the most expensive independent retailers he can find, like Punch Bowl [[talk about some serious $$$), or John V [[$5K for a coat? REALLY?). Then, to top it all off, they charge downtown residents THROUGH the nose, and FOR WHAT? The city is still half empty, bad crime, and is ranked 92nd for residents' happiness.

I always used to tell myself that I'd spend the rest of my life living in Detroit- now, I'm planning to move to Seattle, where the rents [[slightly higher than downtown Detroit, about $1,400 for a 1 bedroom) are actually worth it.

[Mikie]

Btw, I'm not sure why there is a fuss about opening a resturant on the top of One Woodward since there was a resturant there years ago, the Top of the Flame.

https://www.cardcow.com/323617/top-f...roit-michigan/

[Richard]

I don't agree with that. Gilbert has been the catalyst for jobs and development downtown. A lot of it simply wouldn't have happened without him. You even admit within your own statement that "musical chairs [within the region]" is happening because of Gilbert.

You gave him $200 million for the move,every property has needed little work but came with millions more in tax incentives.

Not sure if he is even out of pocket yet,right place,right time with the right incentive.

To me with the righting of the city leaders would have set the course.

What is left needs lots of work and incentives ,the upcoming sale of the Fisher building will be the only property that will place true value on real estate.

Then you will know if it was worth the $300 million spent or an act of desperation short term gain for a long term loss.

[Scottathew]

Btw, I'm not sure why there is a fuss about opening a resturant on the top of One Woodward since there was a resturant there years ago, the Top of the Flame.

https://www.cardcow.com/323617/top-f...roit-michigan/

Apparently the issue here was that Gilbert and\or Bedrock employees were going to rob people? Supposedly... according to the op...

Not quite sure where he's getting his info.

[gumby]

Would Gilbert and Bedrock please make their way up to Flint and start killing Flint. I mean if you don't want his money and investment we could sure use it.

[Hypestyles]

nothing's improving for the mature student graduate who is pursuing a career change.. zippo exists as far as local companies willing to hire.. whoever Quicken and their various spinoffs are looking for, it's not me...

[Cliffy]

nothing's improving for the mature student graduate who is pursuing a career change.. zippo exists as far as local companies willing to hire.. whoever Quicken and their various spinoffs are looking for, it's not me...

Agreed. Quicken jobs are basically kids who just got out of college and don't have the right degree so they start off there until they can find a "real" job.

[T.Low]

Go to some hip cool city where black folks are never welcomed like "Seattle, WA., Portland, OR, Minneapolis, MN or Los Angeles, CA!"

?
You are very wrong about Seattle.

[mikeg19]

Agreed. Quicken jobs are basically kids who just got out of college and don't have the right degree so they start off there until they can find a "real" job.

Basically, yea. The mortgage program there is cutthroat. People working 60 or 70 hours a week, weekends, holidays. Part of their "weeding out" process. Probably the best thing to happen to me was not getting a job there. I guess I just wasn't Quicken "material."


But I'm willing to bet that in 10 years downtown will have a lot more companies looking for professionals rather than college kids who think making $15 an hour is the end all/be all. Credit Gilbert for getting the ball rolling, as more companies are apt to follow.

[warsaw7]

Basically, yea. The mortgage program there is cutthroat. People working 60 or 70 hours a week, weekends, holidays. Part of their "weeding out" process. Probably the best thing to happen to me was not getting a job there. I guess I just wasn't Quicken "material."

What is that supposed to mean? You do realize there is more to QL than just mortgage bankers. I work at QL, 45 hours a week and I am perfectly happy.

[mikeg19]

What is that supposed to mean? You do realize there is more to QL than just mortgage bankers. I work at QL, 45 hours a week and I am perfectly happy.

Exactly like I said. The mortgage bankers work like dogs. I didn't say anything regarding other operations. My sister in law moved from mortgage banking to another department because she was sick of working 12 hour days. Now she's working 40-45 and loves it.

[Armin]

Basically, yea. The mortgage program there is cutthroat. People working 60 or 70 hours a week, weekends, holidays. Part of their "weeding out" process. Probably the best thing to happen to me was not getting a job there. I guess I just wasn't Quicken "material."


But I'm willing to bet that in 10 years downtown will have a lot more companies looking for professionals rather than college kids who think making $15 an hour is the end all/be all. Credit Gilbert for getting the ball rolling, as more companies are apt to follow.

maybe starting out, you are expected to put in extra hours. But that's what you need to do in any sales environment. Big deal. I've been in banking with QL for 12 years. I work from home, I have to work a minimum of 35 hours/week, I don't work weekends, and I have NEVER worked on an important holiday.

[mikeg19]

maybe starting out, you are expected to put in extra hours. But that's what you need to do in any sales environment. Big deal. I've been in banking with QL for 12 years. I work from home, I have to work a minimum of 35 hours/week, I don't work weekends, and I have NEVER worked on an important holiday.

Again, as I stated, part of the weeding out process. I've heard the first year or two is hell, but if you get past that, it can be quite enjoyable. Everyone obviously has different work experiances at a company, and no doubt there are an enormous amount of fantastic amenities available at QL for an enjoyable workday.

[jw101]

What the hell does this even mean? Was the concept of the restaurant to rob people before or after the meal? Were residents forced to go to this establishment? Do you feel restaurants inherently evil? I'm confused and amused.

"Rob people" as in charge them at NYC/LA prices at a Detroit location.

[jw101]

Apparently the issue here was that Gilbert and\or Bedrock employees were going to rob people? Supposedly... according to the op...

Not quite sure where he's getting his info.

...is it that hard to put 2 and 2 together? Because being legit robbed makes perfect sense! -____-