TARGET EXPRESS concept opening in Chicago...could itwork in downtown Detroit?

[detroitbob]

Target has downtown Detroit on its radar, although no date or concept has been announced...this Express concept would serve downtown Detroit well...


http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...408-story.html

[Chicago48]

Target has downtown Detroit on its radar, although no date or concept has been announced...this Express concept would serve downtown Detroit well...


http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...408-story.html

I live in Chicago. There are several Targets inside the city, do a Goog search for Target 60660 [[or any Chicago zip). There are tons of them. There's a CITY target downtown Chicago.
It could work in downtown Detroit but it's interesting that Target just closed a shop in Detroit - didn't it?
Before it comes to Detroit, it will have to be wooed with a lot of incentives and tax credits.

[iheartthed]

I live in Chicago. There are several Targets inside the city, do a Goog search for Target 60660 [[or any Chicago zip). There are tons of them. There's a CITY target downtown Chicago.
It could work in downtown Detroit but it's interesting that Target just closed a shop in Detroit - didn't it?
Before it comes to Detroit, it will have to be wooed with a lot of incentives and tax credits.

There's only ever been one Target in the city and I think it closed a decade ago.

[Danny]

Don't push the information button, folks. Gilberttown Detroit is not getting a Target Express nor a City Target, yet. Gilberttown Detroit need some franchise stores other than rows of exotic restuarants first. Then this city could think big.

[Chicago48]

Don't push this the information, folks. Gilberttown Detroit is not getting a Target Express nor a City Target, yet. Gilberttown Detroit need some franchise stores other than rows of exotic restuarants first. Then this city could think big.

It seems that Gilbert is building a City within a City. Right?

[casscorridor]

No, Detroit needs a something bigger. City Target makes more sense than Target Express. We already have enough dollar stores and pharmacies. There is plenty of space to build as well, unlike Chicago.

Locations: Former Brewster Projects site. Former American Axle factory site. Both have easy freeway access and room for ample parking, but still close enough to growing urban neighborhoods [[Midtown and Hamtramck).

[detroitbob]

Corporate officials participated in a major event last fall and expressed interest in downtown although no date was announced. They have a major presence in the state...time will tell.

[ghettopalmetto]

Sure it can work. You just need enough people living nearby, within a certain radius. The numbers I've seen bandied-about are that national retailers look for a population of 20,000 or more within a neighborhood.

[detroitbob]

Sure it can work. You just need enough people living nearby, within a certain radius. The numbers I've seen bandied-about are that national retailers look for a population of 20,000 or more within a neighborhood.

WHOLE FOODS Midtown is a proof that if you build it they will shop...

[davewindsor]

WHOLE FOODS Midtown is a proof that if you build it they will shop...

After tonnes of gov't handouts to build it.... Why did it need to be heavily subsidized by the gov't if it's such a successful company?

And your statement still provides no proof that Target is opening up downtown.

[davewindsor]

Target has downtown Detroit on its radar, although no date or concept has been announced...this Express concept would serve downtown Detroit well...


http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...408-story.html

Link?

The link you attached talks about Chicago and says nothing about Detroit.

Are you serious??

Target took a multi-billion dollar hit bankrupting their Canadian operations [[133 big box stores) earlier this year in their expansion quest. I can't imagine their new management being the kind of risk takers necessary to opening up in downtown Detroit after everything that's gone wrong with them in the past few months.

They're on a quest to downsize across the board. If anything, Target might start replacing their big box stores with these express stores, but there isn't one in downtown to replace. They've already announced for February 1st that their Southfield location in metro is one of their 11 big box store closures in the US http://pressroom.target.com/news/target-announces-upcoming-store-closures

Target is a sinking ship. If you own shares in them, you should be dumping them asap. They've lost the war against Walmart.

[Richard]

Link?

The link you attached talks about Chicago and says nothing about Detroit.

Are you serious??

Target took a multi-billion dollar hit bankrupting their Canadian operations earlier this year in their expansion quest. I can't imagine their new management being the kind of risk takers necessary to opening up in downtown Detroit after everything that's gone wrong with them in the past few months.

They're on a quest to downsize across the board. If anything, Target might start replacing their big box stores with these express stores, but there isn't one in downtown to replace. They've already announced for February 1st that their Southfield location in metro is one of their 11 big box store closures http://pressroom.target.com/news/target-announces-upcoming-store-closures

Target is a sinking ship. If you own shares in them, you should be dumping them asap. They've lost the war against Walmart.

Maybe invest in porta-potties in Midtown?

Target shares $83
Wall-Mart $80

Target up 9% for the year Wal-Mart down 6%

Because of the CA closures it gives the city 100% chance as a new market.

It shows where the CDA market is if it cannot support a target but can a wal-mart,worse then Detroit.

It was a calculated risk,they are not that stupid.

[davewindsor]

Target shares $83
Wall-Mart $80

Do you know anything about how share evaluation works? Walmart and Target don't have the same amount of shares in circulation. A 2 for 1 stock split, for example, can make an $80 Walmart share $40 without changing it's market capitalization, and each shareholder would just own twice as many shares without changing their equity.

Target up 9% for the year Wal-Mart down 6%

Links?

Just go to both stores and look at what they sell. Anyone can see where Target is heading. I compared the prices. A lot of the items at Target were 25-50% higher than local retailers or Walmart.

Because of the CA closures it gives the city 100% chance as a new market.

Based on what? Your dreams?

[Bham1982]

Target is one of the most successful retailers out there, and expanding like wildfire. They are very profitable.

I don't know why they failed in Canada, but it's not really relevant. Not a meaningful proportion of operations.

Sometimes things don't translate across national boundaries. WalMart failed horribly in Europe. They initially struggled in Mexico too, but eventually bribed their way to huge success [[Mexico is their most profitable market).

[Richard]

Do you know anything about how share evaluation works? Walmart and Target don't have the same amount of shares in circulation. A 2 for 1 stock split, for example, can make an $80 Walmart share $40 without changing it's market capitalization, and each shareholder would just own twice as many shares without changing their equity.


Links?

Just go to both stores and look at what they sell. Anyone can see where Target is heading. I compared the prices. A lot of the items at Target were 25-50% higher than local retailers or Walmart.



Based on what? Your dreams?

How are you offering no buy comments without doing simple research ?

Nix. International expansion forces domestic expansion , no expansion creats stall,you are forced to explore new markets not looked at before.

Bad economy wal mart does good target does bad,what does that say about a certain economy and where wal mart sees profit.

Target demographic is middle to higher low income,Wal-Mart is based on the mentality of cheapest is better even if cost more buying the same item over and over,but it is cheap today tommorow is another day.

They serve two different markets and two different mind sets and really should not even be mentioned as a comparison as there is none.

Did the OP say yaaaaa we are getting a Wal-Mart? That would be a leap backwards.

What is the highest traffic count and easily excessable location where you can draw from Midtown,Corktown,EV ect that can provide that demographic ? Find that spot to make a case.

[davewindsor]

How are you offering no buy comments without doing simple research ?

Nix. International expansion forces domestic expansion , no expansion creats stall,you are forced to explore new markets not looked at before.

Bad economy wal mart does good target does bad,what does that say about a certain economy and where wal mart sees profit.

Target demographic is middle to higher low income,Wal-Mart is based on the mentality of cheapest is better even if cost more buying the same item over and over,but it is cheap today tommorow is another day.

They serve two different markets and two different mind sets and really should not even be mentioned as a comparison as there is none.

WTF did you just say? Middle to higher low income?? Is that even a category?? Regardless, the cheapest stores are not Walmart, but the Dollar shops that offer no return policies. That's your invented lower "low income" category, which means Walmart is in the Target category. At least with Walmart, if a product is garbage, you can return it the following week, so there's at least some motivation for quality control vs. letting the buyer beware with Dollar shops. Most of the stuff sold at Walmart and Target are basically the same items made by the same manufacturers with different UPC codes or a different generic name. It's an apples to apples comparison. Target is not competing with the Macy's category; they are competing with Walmart. Regardless, whatever you just said, did not work because Target had to close all their stores in Canada and is now closing stores in the US.

Did the OP say yaaaaa we are getting a Wal-Mart? That would be a leap backwards.

Walmart wouldn't open up in downtown Detroit either. Their loss prevention department couldn't handle the losses....

[davewindsor]

Because of the CA closures it gives the city 100% chance as a new market.

It shows where the CDA market is if it cannot support a target but can a wal-mart,worse then Detroit.

It was a calculated risk,they are not that stupid.

I see you went back and edited your post and added a few sentences a few hours after I responded with mine.

Let's recap. If the Canadian market is so risky, why didn't Walmart Canada go bankrupt as well? It has three times the stores that Target did and they're very successful--Target had only 133 stores in Canada vs. Walmart having 394 stores in Canada. Walmart operated in Canada since 1994; Target just a couple of years. If either stores is oversaturated in Canada, it's Walmart, not Target.

Just a basic observation in the City of Windsor. Windsor has two Walmart stores, while Target had only one. Every time I went to Walmart in Windsor, the parking lot is virtually full and there's over a dozen cashiers with lineups. I couldn't say the same about Target Windsor. Why do you think these observations are so fundamentally different? The only conclusion I can draw is that Walmart handed Target their assess to them on a silver platter with much better pricing. They lost the war with Walmart in Canada and now they're losing it in the US.

Your first sentence makes no sense.

[dtowncitylover]

Link?

The link you attached talks about Chicago and says nothing about Detroit.

Are you serious??

Target took a multi-billion dollar hit bankrupting their Canadian operations [[133 big box stores) earlier this year in their expansion quest. I can't imagine their new management being the kind of risk takers necessary to opening up in downtown Detroit after everything that's gone wrong with them in the past few months.

They're on a quest to downsize across the board. If anything, Target might start replacing their big box stores with these express stores, but there isn't one in downtown to replace. They've already announced for February 1st that their Southfield location in metro is one of their 11 big box store closures in the US http://pressroom.target.com/news/target-announces-upcoming-store-closures

Target is a sinking ship. If you own shares in them, you should be dumping them asap. They've lost the war against Walmart.

The Canadian operation was failure because Target though all English speaking North Americans liked the same things and shopped the same way. No, Americans and Canadians are different. They expanded too fast, could barely keep their stores stocked, and were just plain arrogant and inept to the Canadian market.

The store at Northland closed because Northland failed. And the fact there's a Target on Southfield Rd. that I'm sure gave it a run for its money.

Please give me a better indication than 11 stores closing that Target is a sinking ship. It is the flagship store for middle America but transcends socio-economic groups. Everyone shops there and is not taboo or exclusive like K-Mart and Wal-Mart or Saks, respectively. Low performing stores always close, but new stores in growing markets open up.

Had Target started slow in Canada like Nordstrom is doing, it could have proved a lot better.

A City Target could very well work in downtown. Since it is a popular retailer, downtown workers, residents, and visitors alike would use it of course. Just because it failed in Canada doesn't mean it couldn't work here. We're not Canada. While Detroit may be a risk, it's not the same risk as Canada. The risk in Canada was based on pricing and demand. The risk in Detroit would be loss prevention and getting people into the store. Both of which can be handled.

[Király]

One of the major reasons Target failed in Canada because it had to reinvent the wheel. It couldn't tap in to the existing U.S. supply chains and had to recreate them in Canada. They utterly failed at that, leaving Canadian target stores half empty. Stores were overstocked with inventory that it couldn't sell, and couldn't get any of what customers wanted None of this is a concern for a Target opening anywhere in the U.S., where there isn't a supply chain problem.

Anywhere where there are people with money to spend is a candidate for a Target-like store. Here in Vancouver we have a Costco right downtown. And I mean right downtown, with two levels of underground parking.

[davewindsor]

The Canadian operation was failure because Target though all English speaking North Americans liked the same things and shopped the same way. No, Americans and Canadians are different. They expanded too fast, could barely keep their stores stocked, and were just plain arrogant and inept to the Canadian market.

If that's the case, why didn't Walmart Canada fail? Walmart Canada is an American founded company just like Target Canada.

Expanding too fast also makes no sense because Walmart opened up in Canada in 1994 by buying out 123 leases from the former troubled Woolco in Canada. A very similar move to Target buying out 133 leases from the former Zeller's in Canada. A logistical system already existed through Zeller's that Target took over, just like Walmart took over the failing logistical system from Woolco Canada. So, by the same logic of "expanding too fast", why didn't Walmart Canada fail if their demise was because of "the Canadian market"? This is just the tip of a much bigger problem of what's happening with Target as a whole

Walmart has over 8500 stores across the globe and is over four times the size of Target. How could they have expanded too fast if they are much smaller than Walmart?

The store at Northland closed because Northland failed. And the fact there's a Target on Southfield Rd. that I'm sure gave it a run for its money.

Please give me a better indication than 11 stores closing that Target is a sinking ship.

First, anchors like big box stores closing kill malls, not the other way around. Target is an anchor store. Anchors are what make malls successful.

Second, I don't accept the proximity explanation either because Windsor has two Walmarts that are always very busy and are about 5 miles apart from one another using mapquest and both of those Walmarts have been there for well over a decade. The two Targets in Southfield were also about 5 miles apart from one to another using mapquest. A five mile proximity should not have caused this closure unless there's a deeper problem with Target as a whole. It's a sinking ship.

It is the flagship store for middle America but transcends socio-economic groups. Everyone shops there and is not taboo or exclusive like K-Mart and Wal-Mart or Saks, respectively.

So is Walmart. A lot of the middle class shop at Walmart too, not just low income earners. Everybody shops at Walmart just like Target. You just have to look at their huge parking lots in Windsor filled with shiny new cars owned by their customers to see that.

Low performing stores always close, but new stores in growing markets open up.

It shouldn't be low performing if there are more Walmarts per capita than Targets.

Had Target started slow in Canada like Nordstrom is doing, it could have proved a lot better.

Nope, it wouldn't have fared any better. Re-read my comments above.

A City Target could very well work in downtown. Since it is a popular retailer, downtown workers, residents, and visitors alike would use it of course. Just because it failed in Canada doesn't mean it couldn't work here. We're not Canada. While Detroit may be a risk, it's not the same risk as Canada. The risk in Canada was based on pricing and demand. The risk in Detroit would be loss prevention and getting people into the store. Both of which can be handled.

Absolutely not. Target is a sinking ship. They're going to be downsizing with express stores, not expanding.

Department stores fail because of poor management at its very core. It has happened to many large department stores in Canada too like Eaton's, Simpson's, Tower's, Woolco, Zeller's, etc.

What happened with Target is exactly what I saw with stores like Eaton's before they went bankrupt... Forget about them opening up in downtown. Target is a sinking ship. They're in reorganization mode, not expansion mode.

[stasu1213]

I dont think that Target will be in the downtown area for it appear that Gilbert is focusing on specialty stores and boutiques to move into the downtown area to draw a certain type of consumer into the area like those who could afford John Varvatos and others that will soon to come. I could see a Drrss Barn or Ann Taylors Closet opening in the downtown area. City Target would probably open in thr New Center are or the Woodward and Mack area probably where The Ye Olde Butcher Shop were

[davewindsor]

City Target would probably open in thr New Center are or the Woodward and Mack area probably where The Ye Olde Butcher Shop were

I would say you have a much higher probability of winning a million dollars at Greektown casino than a City Target opening in New Center or Woodward and Mack... Unless, of course, you could show me a link somewhere supporting your conclusion, which you can't.

[scooter]

I dont think that Target will be in the downtown area for it appear that Gilbert is focusing on specialty stores and boutiques to move into the downtown area to draw a certain type of consumer into the area like those who could afford John Varvatos and others that will soon to come. I could see a Drrss Barn or Ann Taylors Closet opening in the downtown area. City Target would probably open in thr New Center are or the Woodward and Mack area probably where The Ye Olde Butcher Shop were

There already was a Dress Barn downtown it was on Congress, it closed a few years ago

[Hypestyles]

the r_cism inherent in the "purely logical" 'shrinkage/loss prevention' rationale is rather glaring..

If Target, Kroger or Walmart continues to write off having an outlet within city limits, Meijer can have the city by default, I guess.

[Shai_Hulud]

Um, no they don't. My perception from day 1 was that Target is just another K-Mart that's going to compete with Walmart.

You can get the same stylish clothing at Walmart. Walmart has designer labels like George London, Levi-Strauss, etc. It's no different. I see the same Hanes underwear on both stores' shelves. To me, stylish is Calvin Klein and neither Walmart nor Target sell Calvin Klein. I had to buy my Calvin Klein jacket at Macy's, or if I want to buy it in Windsor, Hudson's Bay.

Maybe it's different in Canada, but while there is a ton of overlap between Wal-Mart and Target many Americans perceive Target as being the more upmarket store.

1. Most importantly, Target is almost always better stocked and cleaner than Wal-Mart.
2. Target has Starbucks inside their stores, Wal-Mart has Gobank, Magic Jack and other services that are clearly aimed at lower income consumers.
3. Target is sometimes 10% more expensive than Wal-Mart for comparable items.
4. Target does not have rural locations like Wal-Mart, which serve a less affluent market.​

K-Mart isn't worth mentioning, the last time I walked in one it looked like it had been unchanged since the 1980's. I'm not saying Target is invulnerable but K-Mart, Sears, JC Penney, even Best Buy are in line for the axe before Target.