One more sign of real estate sanity in Michigan

[Detroit500]

i have always maintained for someone who is self employed, travels a lot, or is retired, real estate markets like the one in Detroit area, it makes so much sense to live there over a place like SF.

[canuck]

Montreal has not suffered the boomtime nuttiness that other cities have because the kind of immigration we get is fewer Asians and more Euro-African-Middle Eastern, and Latin American. Toronto and Vancouver had waves of Chinese and South East Asians, Indians and Pakistanis with a fair bit of money come in as investors. But oftentimes in Vancouver the process of immigration s a ruse whereby an immigrant invests 3/4 of a million in a Tim Horton's or a cousin's supermarket and the principal and his family remain outside the country. The very wealthy will buy a bungalow for two million in West or North Vancouver on the North Shore, demolish and build a Humunga-home and it can remain empty most of the year. The result is that a lot of people refuse to be relocated for a job in the Vancouver market, because they can't convert the sale of their property in their city to something reasonable in Vancouver. There is no point in going to work, sending the kids to school and not have money to spare for coffee or a show, or the occasional piece of furniture. Vancouver's salaries don't cut it for the entry market either as Kiraly points out.

[DetBill]

i have always maintained for someone who is self employed, travels a lot, or is retired, real estate markets like the one in Detroit area, it makes so much sense to live there over a place like SF.

I agree with you totally, and I think some people are starting to see that also
You get alot of bang for the buck in metro,, and can have a life on a average salary.. You can barely survive in many other areas.

[313WX]

i have always maintained for someone who is self employed, travels a lot, or is retired, real estate markets like the one in Detroit area, it makes so much sense to live there over a place like SF.

Maybe not so much retirement now since Snyder imposed the income tax on pensions [[I know a lot of folks who now claim Arizona and Florida as their primary residence to avoid that tax).

Of course, the average american is not self-employed, does not travel a lot and is not retired.

[Johnnny5]

Maybe not so much retirement now since Snyder imposed the income tax on pensions [[I know a lot of folks who now claim Arizona and Florida as their primary residence to avoid that tax).

Of course, the average american is not self-employed, does not travel a lot and is not retired.

More pensions being taxed, sky high auto insurance rates and a state income tax in general kind of knock us off the list for a home destination for many retirees, frequent travelers or those looking towards a move to lower expenses. I know a lot of people that travel full time [[Mostly in RV's and a few sail boats). Almost all of them use Florida as their home address as there is no state income tax, reasonable insurance rates and liberal rules about state residency.

[TTime]

I don't understand why people in Metro Detroit feel the need to make silly comparisons between our area and places like San Fran, DC and NYC. I would suggest traveling the Midwest and you will see plenty of cities that are still considerably cheaper and offer just as much if not more. How can we claim to be such a value when the region is filled with so many other inexpensive options?

[Bham1982]

I don't understand why people in Metro Detroit feel the need to make silly comparisons between our area and places like San Fran, DC and NYC. I would suggest traveling the Midwest and you will see plenty of cities that are still considerably cheaper and offer just as much if not more. How can we claim to be such a value when the region is filled with so many other inexpensive options?

Actually, this is true. While Detroit is obviously dirt-cheap compared to the NYC and SF type cities, it's pricier than most places in the Midwest. Compare to nearby cities like Toledo or Lansing or Grand Rapids or Flint, and, apples-to-apples, Detroit pricing is much higher. Even bigger cities like Cleveland or Indy or St. Louis or Cincy or Pittsburgh tend to be cheaper.

The metro area has lots of high paying technical jobs, and tons of residual wealth, and you don't get a lot for your money in the more desirable areas relative to other areas in the Midwest [[excepting Chicago and Minneapolis).

[iheartthed]

I don't understand why people in Metro Detroit feel the need to make silly comparisons between our area and places like San Fran, DC and NYC. I would suggest traveling the Midwest and you will see plenty of cities that are still considerably cheaper and offer just as much if not more. How can we claim to be such a value when the region is filled with so many other inexpensive options?

Maybe Metro Detroiters would rather live in a place like SF, DC or NYC, than they would most other cities in the Midwest...

[Gpwrangler]

Maybe Metro Detroiters would rather live in a place like SF, DC or NYC, than they would most other cities in the Midwest...

Maybe some would... I wouldn't go to California if you gave me a free house.

[ABetterDetroit]

Maybe some would... I wouldn't go to California if you gave me a free house.

I'll take 1 in Pacific Beach right on the beach... and what the hell I'll take Gpwrangler's the same way too for myself. Thanks.

What? They're giving them away and he said he doesn't want his, I'm not being a pig! I'll leave a nice tip.

[Gpwrangler]

I'll take 1 in Pacific Beach right on the beach... and what the hell I'll take Gpwrangler's the same way too for myself. Thanks.

What? They're giving them away and he said he doesn't want his, I'm not being a pig! I'll leave a nice tip.

Last time I was out there the tree huggers didn't like my car or my Harley much...and I didn't care for their politics lol. I'll leave the keys to the Free House under the fake rock.

[ABetterDetroit]

Last time I was out there the tree huggers didn't like my car or my Harley much...and I didn't care for their politics lol. I'll leave the keys to the Free House under the fake rock.

Keys? Who carries keys? CA tech baby, just the newest tech.

[canuck]

Last time I was out there the tree huggers didn't like my car or my Harley much...and I didn't care for their politics lol. I'll leave the keys to the Free House under the fake rock.

If you're lucky, you get one of the virtual houses, the kind they keep putting cedar shingles on. They go poof faster than your computer can boot when the Santa Ana winds blow by.

[Canadian Visitor]

This whole thread has a form of 'grass is greener or browner' syndrome.

Which is to say, in my experience across the globe; w/some exceptions, everything is a trade.

Want high culture in spades? Low Crime? Access to luxury goods? Spectacular parks? and above average transit? Great! Expect, above average home prices, and rents; expect more congestion and immigration, expect higher wages, but not as high as the prices might seem to require.......expect more paperwork etc.

A society w/no laws [[and therefore maximum freedom) by definition has no crime; then again.....maybe it has tons..)

A society w/no taxes has no public services.

A society that has regulated public behavior [[ie. low crime) has laws and restrictions and taxes for police and other 'enforcers';

A society w/high-quality services has to pay for them.

***

There is of course variation in quality of execution; in nearby natural resources and communities are invariably at different points in economic and demographic cycles at any given time.

There is room for every place to improve by altering, abolishing or creating a new regulation; by increasing decreasing or altering a particular tax; or by investing in more in one or several public services and perhaps, less in others.

But simplistic judgements of 'value' are invariably arbitrary and lack context.

There are few places in the world I rather live that Toronto.........that said, I wouldn't mind a price correction in the housing market of 30%

[Canadian Visitor]

To share a note; many Torontonians while grateful for decent economy and a nice place to live find the pace of development....intimidating and excessive.

One way in which this manifests itself is an ever more demanding municipal bureaucracy which lays down, technical, financial and environmental obligations on developers as never before. Discerning that in this market they can do that, and maybe it slows things just a tad.

Someone I talked w/told me [[can't verify) that a US supermarket chain that set up one store in Detroit not that long ago....was manifestly confounded by how long it took from planning to opening a store in the GTA......upwards of 2 years longer than comparable US locations someone said...........

Let me provide some details from a condo application currently going before council:

a. The community benefits recommended to be secured in the Section 37 Agreement are as follows:
i. An indexed contribution of $4,750,000 to be paid or secured as noted below in the Section 37 Agreement. The total amounts are indexed upwardly in accordance with the Statistics Canada Non-Residential Construction Price Index for Toronto, calculated from the date of the Section 37 Agreement to the date of payment and is detailed as follows:

a. Prior to the issuance of the first above-grade building permit the owner shall provide an indexed cash contribution to the City in the amount of $4,750,000 to be allocated to capital improvements that will benefit the community in the vicinity of the project such as, but not limited to, non-profit licensed daycare facilities, community centres, recreation facilities, libraries, arts related community space, local streetscape improvements, Yorkville BIA capital projects, capital improvements to Toronto Community Housing in Ward 27, or public parks in the area, at the discretion of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning, in consultation with the Ward Councillor;


b. Prior to the issuance of the first above-grade building permit, the City at its sole discretion may opt to use any or all of the $4,750,000 identified in Condition 4.a.i. in conjunction with any other funding sources at its discretion, for the purpose of parkland acquisition in the vicinity of the project, such parkland to be to the satisfaction of the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation; and

ii. To provide and maintain an accessible public pedestrian walkway on the west portion of the subject property which shall have a minimum width of 3.6 metres and shall provide a direct at-grade connection between Yorkville Avenue and the south property line generally within the area identified as "Pedestrian Walkway" on Map 2 of the Zoning By-law amendment, with the specific location, configuration and design to be determined in the context of a site plan approval pursuant to Section 114 of the City of Toronto Act, 2006, as amended and, as applicable, Section 41 of the Planning Act, as amended, and secured in a Site Plan Agreement with the City; such right of access to be secured by way of agreement[[s) to the satisfaction of the City Solicitor.


b. The following matters are also recommended to be secured in the Section 37 Agreement as a legal convenience to support development:

i. The Owner shall enter into a Heritage Easement Agreement for the properties at 836-850 Yonge Street and 1-9A Yorkville Avenue to the satisfaction of the Manager, Heritage Preservation Services;

ii. The Owner shall provide and maintain seven [[7) residential rental units on the subject site as rental housing for a period of at least 20 years, comprising three [[3) bachelor units and four [[4) 1-bedroom units, as shown on the plans submitted to the City Planning Division dated February 19, 2015 with any revisions to the satisfaction of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division. Of these units, one [[1) bachelor unit shall have an affordable rent; an additional five [[5) units shall have rents no higher than mid-range; and one [[1) unit will have no rent stipulation;

iii. The Owner shall provide tenant relocation assistance for tenants in the existing rental units including an extended notice period, financial assistance beyond the minimums of the Residential Tenancies Act, and the right to return to a replacement rental unit for the eligible tenants, all to the satisfaction of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division;

iv. The Owner shall enter into and register one or more Section 111 Agreement[[s) to secure the rental replacement units and the tenant relocation provisions outlined above and as detailed in the draft Zoning By-law Amendments which are Attachment Nos. 13 and 14 to the report [[March 25, 2015) from the Director, Community Planning, Toronto and East York District, to the satisfaction of the City Solicitor and the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division;

v. The Owner shall enter into and register a Section 118 Restriction under the Land Titles Act, to the satisfaction of the City Solicitor, agreeing not to transfer or charge those parts of the lands comprising the 7 replacement residential rental units, without the written consent of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division or their designate to assist with securing the Section 111 Agreement against future owners and encumbrances of the lands until such time as the City Solicitor determines that its registration on title is no longer required to secure the provisions of the Section 111 Agreement; and

vi. The Owner shall convey a portion of the land on the west side of the subject property to create a 6.0 metre wide public lane secured in a Site Plan Agreement with the City, to the satisfaction of the General Manager, Transportation Services and the City Solicitor.

5. City Council approve the Rental Housing Demolition application [[13 246110 STE 27 RH) to demolish the seven [[7) residential rental units at 836-850 Yonge Street and 1-9A Yorkville Avenue pursuant to Municipal Code Chapter 667 and three [[3) residential units also pursuant to Municipal Code Chapter 363 subject to the following conditions:

a. the owner shall enter into, and register on title, one or more Section 111 Agreement[[s) to secure the following conditions as further detailed in the draft Zoning By-law Amendments which are Attachment Nos. 13 and 14 to the report [[March 25, 2015) from the Director, Community Planning, Toronto and East York District, to the satisfaction of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning and the City Solicitor:

i. the owner shall provide and maintain seven [[7) residential rental dwelling units in the development, for a period of at least 20 years, comprising three [[3) bachelor units and four [[4) 1-bedroom units, of which five [[5) units shall have not higher than mid-range rents and additionally one [[1) bachelor unit at an affordable rent;

ii. the owner shall provide tenant relocation assistance for tenants in the existing rental building including the right to return to a replacement rental unit for the eligible tenants to the satisfaction of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division; and

b. the owner shall enter into, and register on title, a Section 118 Restriction under the Land Titles Act, to the satisfaction of the City Solicitor, agreeing not to transfer or charge any part of the lands without the written consent of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division.

6. City Council authorize the issuance of a Preliminary Approval by the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division to the Rental Housing Demolition application [[13 246110 STE 27 RH) after:

a. the draft Zoning By-law Amendments which are Attachment Nos. 13 and 14 to the report [[March 25, 2015) from the Director, Community Planning, Toronto and East York District, have come into full force and effect; and

b. the Notice of Approval Conditions for site plan approval has been issued for the development by the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division, pursuant to Section 114 of the City of Toronto Act, 2006.

7. City Council authorize the issuance of a Section 111 Permit by the Chief Building Official for the Rental Housing Demolition application [[13 246110 STE 27 RH) after the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division, has issued the Preliminary Approval.

8. City Council authorize the Chief Building Official to issue a demolition permit under Section 33 of the Planning Act for the residential uses on the lot no earlier than the issuance of a building permit for the shoring and excavation for the subject lands; and of the issuance of Preliminary Approval by the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division, on condition that:

a. the owner erect a residential building on site no later than five [[5) years from the date the Section 33 demolition permit is issued; and

b. should the owner fail to complete the new building within five [[5) years, the City Clerk shall be entitled to enter on the collector's roll, to be collected in a like manner as municipal taxes, the sum of twenty thousand dollars [[$20,000) for each dwelling unit for which a demolition permit is issued, and that such sum shall, until payment, be a lien or charge upon the land for which the demolition permit is issued.

9. City Council request the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, in consultation with the Director, Real Estate Services to report to Toronto and East York Community Council by the Fourth Quarter, 2015 on the parkland acquisition option, including the following:

a. The financial implications to the City in the event City Council were to elect to require the parkland acquisition rather than the cash contribution of $4,750,000 [[Recommendation 4.a.i.);


b. Detailed terms and conditions for the acquisition and capital improvements of the proposed parkland, including any other funding sources such as the cash-in-lieu received from this project under Section 42 of the Planning Act;

c. Any additional terms and conditions that should be considered by City Council in determining whether or not to require the parkland acquisition instead of the cash contribution.

*********

That's above and beyond the basics from the shadowing studies to the wind studies to the traffic studies etc. etc.

I'm not saying I oppose this per se............makes for the awesome place I live.....of course....also forces the prices up just a bit..............

[ABetterDetroit]

To share a note; many Torontonians while grateful for decent economy and a nice place to live find the pace of development....intimidating and excessive.

One way in which this manifests itself is an ever more demanding municipal bureaucracy which lays down, technical, financial and environmental obligations on developers as never before. Discerning that in this market they can do that, and maybe it slows things just a tad.

Someone I talked w/told me [[can't verify) that a US supermarket chain that set up one store in Detroit not that long ago....was manifestly confounded by how long it took from planning to opening a store in the GTA......upwards of 2 years longer than comparable US locations someone said...........

Let me provide some details from a condo application currently going before council:

a. The community benefits recommended to be secured in the Section 37 Agreement are as follows:
i. An indexed contribution of $4,750,000 to be paid or secured as noted below in the Section 37 Agreement. The total amounts are indexed upwardly in accordance with the Statistics Canada Non-Residential Construction Price Index for Toronto, calculated from the date of the Section 37 Agreement to the date of payment and is detailed as follows:

a. Prior to the issuance of the first above-grade building permit the owner shall provide an indexed cash contribution to the City in the amount of $4,750,000 to be allocated to capital improvements that will benefit the community in the vicinity of the project such as, but not limited to, non-profit licensed daycare facilities, community centres, recreation facilities, libraries, arts related community space, local streetscape improvements, Yorkville BIA capital projects, capital improvements to Toronto Community Housing in Ward 27, or public parks in the area, at the discretion of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning, in consultation with the Ward Councillor;


b. Prior to the issuance of the first above-grade building permit, the City at its sole discretion may opt to use any or all of the $4,750,000 identified in Condition 4.a.i. in conjunction with any other funding sources at its discretion, for the purpose of parkland acquisition in the vicinity of the project, such parkland to be to the satisfaction of the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation; and

ii. To provide and maintain an accessible public pedestrian walkway on the west portion of the subject property which shall have a minimum width of 3.6 metres and shall provide a direct at-grade connection between Yorkville Avenue and the south property line generally within the area identified as "Pedestrian Walkway" on Map 2 of the Zoning By-law amendment, with the specific location, configuration and design to be determined in the context of a site plan approval pursuant to Section 114 of the City of Toronto Act, 2006, as amended and, as applicable, Section 41 of the Planning Act, as amended, and secured in a Site Plan Agreement with the City; such right of access to be secured by way of agreement[[s) to the satisfaction of the City Solicitor.


b. The following matters are also recommended to be secured in the Section 37 Agreement as a legal convenience to support development:

i. The Owner shall enter into a Heritage Easement Agreement for the properties at 836-850 Yonge Street and 1-9A Yorkville Avenue to the satisfaction of the Manager, Heritage Preservation Services;

ii. The Owner shall provide and maintain seven [[7) residential rental units on the subject site as rental housing for a period of at least 20 years, comprising three [[3) bachelor units and four [[4) 1-bedroom units, as shown on the plans submitted to the City Planning Division dated February 19, 2015 with any revisions to the satisfaction of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division. Of these units, one [[1) bachelor unit shall have an affordable rent; an additional five [[5) units shall have rents no higher than mid-range; and one [[1) unit will have no rent stipulation;

iii. The Owner shall provide tenant relocation assistance for tenants in the existing rental units including an extended notice period, financial assistance beyond the minimums of the Residential Tenancies Act, and the right to return to a replacement rental unit for the eligible tenants, all to the satisfaction of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division;

iv. The Owner shall enter into and register one or more Section 111 Agreement[[s) to secure the rental replacement units and the tenant relocation provisions outlined above and as detailed in the draft Zoning By-law Amendments which are Attachment Nos. 13 and 14 to the report [[March 25, 2015) from the Director, Community Planning, Toronto and East York District, to the satisfaction of the City Solicitor and the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division;

v. The Owner shall enter into and register a Section 118 Restriction under the Land Titles Act, to the satisfaction of the City Solicitor, agreeing not to transfer or charge those parts of the lands comprising the 7 replacement residential rental units, without the written consent of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division or their designate to assist with securing the Section 111 Agreement against future owners and encumbrances of the lands until such time as the City Solicitor determines that its registration on title is no longer required to secure the provisions of the Section 111 Agreement; and

vi. The Owner shall convey a portion of the land on the west side of the subject property to create a 6.0 metre wide public lane secured in a Site Plan Agreement with the City, to the satisfaction of the General Manager, Transportation Services and the City Solicitor.

5. City Council approve the Rental Housing Demolition application [[13 246110 STE 27 RH) to demolish the seven [[7) residential rental units at 836-850 Yonge Street and 1-9A Yorkville Avenue pursuant to Municipal Code Chapter 667 and three [[3) residential units also pursuant to Municipal Code Chapter 363 subject to the following conditions:

a. the owner shall enter into, and register on title, one or more Section 111 Agreement[[s) to secure the following conditions as further detailed in the draft Zoning By-law Amendments which are Attachment Nos. 13 and 14 to the report [[March 25, 2015) from the Director, Community Planning, Toronto and East York District, to the satisfaction of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning and the City Solicitor:

i. the owner shall provide and maintain seven [[7) residential rental dwelling units in the development, for a period of at least 20 years, comprising three [[3) bachelor units and four [[4) 1-bedroom units, of which five [[5) units shall have not higher than mid-range rents and additionally one [[1) bachelor unit at an affordable rent;

ii. the owner shall provide tenant relocation assistance for tenants in the existing rental building including the right to return to a replacement rental unit for the eligible tenants to the satisfaction of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division; and

b. the owner shall enter into, and register on title, a Section 118 Restriction under the Land Titles Act, to the satisfaction of the City Solicitor, agreeing not to transfer or charge any part of the lands without the written consent of the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division.

6. City Council authorize the issuance of a Preliminary Approval by the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division to the Rental Housing Demolition application [[13 246110 STE 27 RH) after:

a. the draft Zoning By-law Amendments which are Attachment Nos. 13 and 14 to the report [[March 25, 2015) from the Director, Community Planning, Toronto and East York District, have come into full force and effect; and

b. the Notice of Approval Conditions for site plan approval has been issued for the development by the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division, pursuant to Section 114 of the City of Toronto Act, 2006.

7. City Council authorize the issuance of a Section 111 Permit by the Chief Building Official for the Rental Housing Demolition application [[13 246110 STE 27 RH) after the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division, has issued the Preliminary Approval.

8. City Council authorize the Chief Building Official to issue a demolition permit under Section 33 of the Planning Act for the residential uses on the lot no earlier than the issuance of a building permit for the shoring and excavation for the subject lands; and of the issuance of Preliminary Approval by the Chief Planner and Executive Director, City Planning Division, on condition that:

a. the owner erect a residential building on site no later than five [[5) years from the date the Section 33 demolition permit is issued; and

b. should the owner fail to complete the new building within five [[5) years, the City Clerk shall be entitled to enter on the collector's roll, to be collected in a like manner as municipal taxes, the sum of twenty thousand dollars [[$20,000) for each dwelling unit for which a demolition permit is issued, and that such sum shall, until payment, be a lien or charge upon the land for which the demolition permit is issued.

9. City Council request the General Manager, Parks, Forestry and Recreation, in consultation with the Director, Real Estate Services to report to Toronto and East York Community Council by the Fourth Quarter, 2015 on the parkland acquisition option, including the following:

a. The financial implications to the City in the event City Council were to elect to require the parkland acquisition rather than the cash contribution of $4,750,000 [[Recommendation 4.a.i.);


b. Detailed terms and conditions for the acquisition and capital improvements of the proposed parkland, including any other funding sources such as the cash-in-lieu received from this project under Section 42 of the Planning Act;

c. Any additional terms and conditions that should be considered by City Council in determining whether or not to require the parkland acquisition instead of the cash contribution.

*********

That's above and beyond the basics from the shadowing studies to the wind studies to the traffic studies etc. etc.

I'm not saying I oppose this per se............makes for the awesome place I live.....of course....also forces the prices up just a bit..............

I remember you mentioning approximately how many condos are currently under construction in your general area. Could you remind me again what your best guess of that would be?

[Canadian Visitor]

Just an estimate, but I'd say about 130 hi-rises [[of which maybe 10 are office) so 120'ish condos currently under construction.

Plus the low-rises.

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decision...eting-2015.TE5

The above is the 'community council' agenda where I got the report quoted above.

I think I count 17 applications that are either final, seek direction or preliminary. [[for new hi-rise)

There are 8 mtgs scheduled this year, I'd say that's about average.

I am aware this boom won't go on forever.......though most of us called to end about 4-5 years ago.......

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I don't understand why people in Metro Detroit feel the need to make silly comparisons between our area and places like San Fran, DC and NYC. I would suggest traveling the Midwest and you will see plenty of cities that are still considerably cheaper and offer just as much if not more. How can we claim to be such a value when the region is filled with so many other inexpensive options?

I totally agree. Michigan is increasingly getting to be one of the most expensive states to live in. They keep adding taxes on top of the insane taxes we already pay, not to mention some of the highest insurance rates in the country. Cheap housing might seem like a deal when purchased but it isn't a deal when you factor in the costs of property taxes, repairs and maintaining a property that when finished, the house isn't worth the investment you just put in it. And Snyder hasn't done Michigan residents any favors either, especially the seniors.

[sumas]

Thank you for the nod to seniors. 104 plus 157 plus 113 plus 135 and not to forget healthy MI does not cover a $650 per month for a script so my husband can live. Thank you, affordable health coverage???

I am applying for food stamps, we kind of like to eat. Assuming my husband can live without that script. He can't process food without it.

Do I sound a bit bitter, yep!

[ABetterDetroit]

Just an estimate, but I'd say about 130 hi-rises [[of which maybe 10 are office) so 120'ish condos currently under construction.

Plus the low-rises.

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decision...eting-2015.TE5

The above is the 'community council' agenda where I got the report quoted above.

I think I count 17 applications that are either final, seek direction or preliminary. [[for new hi-rise)

There are 8 mtgs scheduled this year, I'd say that's about average.

I am aware this boom won't go on forever.......though most of us called to end about 4-5 years ago.......

That is a BIG boom. What a incredible economic engine.

[Bham1982]

There are few places in the world I rather live that Toronto.........that said, I wouldn't mind a price correction in the housing market of 30%

Toronto, to me, is the worst of both worlds. The crappy transit, soulless sprawl and rampant ugliness of North America combined with the high taxes, overregulation, unaffordability and cultural devolution of Western Europe.

Michigan, despite all its suckiness, has nicer homes at half the price, and the jobs pay just as well, and more after taxes. If you have to be in the Great Lakes region and want a real city, then Chicago>Toronto, and much cheaper and better jobs, and if you really want a good job market and cosmpolitan city, the coastal heavyweights of NYC, Bay Area and LA are all vastly better than Toronto, plus more affordable [[relative to incomes) and vastly nicer.

The only positives from my perspective are tons of diversity, decent economy, and [[if you're into condo boxes) glassy condos everywhere, giving it a Guangzhou on Lake Ontario look. Skyline is third best in North America. And it's [[arguably) the premier city of a major country [[but Montreal, to me, is the real primate city, at least in urban feel, if not corporate might. Montreal looks and feels like Canada's urban heavyweight). And it's totally safe, but all of Canada is totally safe.

[Bham1982]

Just an estimate, but I'd say about 130 hi-rises [[of which maybe 10 are office) so 120'ish condos currently under construction.

And this is a perfect example of Toronto's relative suckiness.

Cities aren't great because of condo "safe deposit boxes" for corrupt Chinese Communist Party members. No city ever became great because of condo construction. The highrise boom in Toronto makes the city uglier and more anonymous by the day. You don't know if you're in Doha, Shenzhen, or Recife.

It's why the city is so often used for movie scenes. It's basically the most anodyne and anonymous global city anywhere. It's perfect for "major modern city somewhere in the developed world".

[ABetterDetroit]

And this is a perfect example of Toronto's relative suckiness.

Cities aren't great because of condo "safe deposit boxes" for corrupt Chinese Communist Party members. No city ever became great because of condo construction. The highrise boom in Toronto makes the city uglier and more anonymous by the day. You don't know if you're in Doha, Shenzhen, or Recife.

It's why the city is so often used for movie scenes. It's basically the most anodyne and anonymous global city anywhere. It's perfect for "major modern city somewhere in the developed world".

And this is the perfect example of the arrogant American.

If it isn't exactly how he would want it than it "sucks".

[Canadian Visitor]

Toronto, to me, is the worst of both worlds. The crappy transit, soulless sprawl and rampant ugliness of North America combined with the high taxes, overregulation, unaffordability and cultural devolution of Western Europe.

Michigan, despite all its suckiness, has nicer homes at half the price, and the jobs pay just as well, and more after taxes. If you have to be in the Great Lakes region and want a real city, then Chicago>Toronto, and much cheaper and better jobs, and if you really want a good job market and cosmpolitan city, the coastal heavyweights of NYC, Bay Area and LA are all vastly better than Toronto, plus more affordable [[relative to incomes) and vastly nicer.

The only positives from my perspective are tons of diversity, decent economy, and [[if you're into condo boxes) glassy condos everywhere, giving it a Guangzhou on Lake Ontario look. Skyline is third best in North America. And it's [[arguably) the premier city of a major country [[but Montreal, to me, is the real primate city, at least in urban feel, if not corporate might. Montreal looks and feels like Canada's urban heavyweight). And it's totally safe, but all of Canada is totally safe.

I feel like I'm feeding the troll.........but what the hell.

First off, a lesson on etiquette, its fine to have an opinion, one different from mine or any other......and its fine for it to be strong too.

But you could use to learn how to express yourself in a way that might positively impact others........and if offered in real life not result in physical harm. [[not by me.........I'm just too nice, LOL)

But ........I digress

I actually doubt you've been to Toronto seeing as your criticism failed to mention a single street name or building or even architectural style.

For someone whose sure Toronto is all modern Chinese generica..... LOL...

You are aware this city has the largest collection of Victorian era homes in North America?

Bad Transit? Really? Third highest ridership on the continent; and 10-min or better service, 7 days a week, all-day, on most routes...............

Now if you'd said crowded......fair game...........overcrowded in rush hours.....I'm with ya.............could we use 2 more subways....sure...........

But sucky?

Sigh.

[canuck]

I feel like I'm feeding the troll.........but what the hell.

First off, a lesson on etiquette, its fine to have an opinion, one different from mine or any other......and its fine for it to be strong too.

But you could use to learn how to express yourself in a way that might positively impact others........and if offered in real life not result in physical harm. [[not by me.........I'm just too nice, LOL)

But ........I digress

I actually doubt you've been to Toronto seeing as your criticism failed to mention a single street name or building or even architectural style.

For someone whose sure Toronto is all modern Chinese generica..... LOL...

You are aware this city has the largest collection of Victorian era homes in North America?

Bad Transit? Really? Third highest ridership on the continent; and 10-min or better service, 7 days a week, all-day, on most routes...............

Now if you'd said crowded......fair game...........overcrowded in rush hours.....I'm with ya.............could we use 2 more subways....sure...........

But sucky?

Sigh.

You know, I want to sympathize with you, but you kind of asked for it with the bigness of your shoes and the kind of attitude about the kind of city that can't go wrong.

Firstly, the number of Victorian era homes of which you speak cannot possibly be higher in Toronto than in New York, maybe St Louis or Cincinnatti, at most. Victorian era describes just that; an epoch not a style. While I enjoy Cabbagetown houses whenever I roam the streets of your fair city, I do not see the vastness in styles that exists in Montreal. Nothing like the Grey and brown and yellow stone houses that dot my city was ever replicated in Toronto; mostly brick.

Secondly, the condo boom in Toronto is the result of market forces that are pushed from the get go by hungry developers set on getting the most for the least effort. The list you gave above is a sham designed to snare the people into believing there is an effort at oversight where there is none. So, in effect Toronto's real estate market responds exactly to the kind of spec-drive that exists in Vancouver. It is as impersonal as it gets, a question of return on your investment, never that far form collapse, in the sense that it forces regular joes and jo-annes into a frenzy of opportunistic thought. It's OK if your life depends on it, but honestly, the game is lame in more ways than one. Vancouver is way off the charts and isn't worth it except for Chinese fast-exit operators which has now become the reason for living in the Greater Vancouver Economy.

Toronto has at least more reasons for developing and making good from a vastly superior economy than Vancouver's. The one problem is that it is a developer's game with a call center strategy bentyon squeezing whatever immigrant investor into a sliver of that geographical entity you call the Golden Horsesh.. into something greater than it is, in virtual fashion. So, really, Canadian Visitor, unless you are to contribute something positive to Detroityes like our other compatriots here, don't sound off on Hogtown's superiority, there is something lacking, perhaps a little "je ne sais quoi?" lol.