John Varvatos

[noise]

If memory serves, the building in which Carhartt is entering used to have a large Dalgleish advertisement painted on the side. If so, that probably contributes to the confusion.

[detroitbob]

A thin, shoulderless and effeminate salesman turned to tell us that; "Well at least it doesn't roll up in a ball like a five dollar t-shirt.
It is a favorite laff of ours when we think back on our New York trip.

Glad you had a "laff" but not necessary to provide a extremely negative, totally judgmental and stereotyped description of your Barney's sales associate. Not to mention homophobic.

[dtowncitylover]

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...bert/70233336/

Here's the Freep's article about the store. Welcome home John Varvatos!

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...bert/70233336/

Here's the Freeport article about the store. Welcome home John Varvatos!

Nice article, but it never occurred to me that they would need to explain how to pronounce his name.

[canuck]

Glad you had a "laff" but not necessary to provide a extremely negative, totally judgmental and stereotyped description of your Barney's sales associate. Not to mention homophobic.

I don't think there is a cause for concern here. Where did I say the salesman was a damned homo?

If I had said the guy had a deep voice and were barrel chested, you would probably consider the individual he-man and heterosexual without knowing the full story. There are plenty of empty clichés you can throw out the window, then again, some epithets remain colorful exhibits on the way to description of an event.

In your PC way, you fell from grace.

I send you back to revisit anyone of the films, novels or TV series you have taken in and dare you to dismiss all the characters who were effeminate or gay and masculine at the end of a writer's pen. Is the description of a character as effeminate an automatic no-no for you or are you willing to accomodate? Would you eliminate the non-Brokeback Mountain types who are not stereotypical or do away with "La Cage aux Folles" because it is too typecast?

Descriptive terms are not hateful from the get-go is what I want you to get from this.

[Mackinaw]

I think Canuck was just trying to give some descriptive color to the story. Implied judgments maybe, homophobic-- no way. [As much as it pains me to make a pop culture reference,] The opposite was shown in the most recent episode of Fresh Off the Boat, where the school principal tries desperately to avoid giving his colleague an easy, off-hand description of the person she's looking for: the only Asian-American in a room of white kids, but the principal refuses to describe him as an Asian.

[detroitbob]

I don't think there is a cause for concern here. Where did I say the salesman was a damned homo?

In your PC way, you fell from grace.

Descriptive terms are not hateful from the get-go is what I want you to get from this.

You provided the typecast by indicating your observation of the salesman. And although you did not say he [[initially) he was a "damned homo" you chose to do so in your reply-- [[your choice of using "damned" may speak volumes of your internalized issues). If you had said the sales associate had been barrel chested and deep voiced [[aka butch) you are correct that popular opinion would have led to a perception of heterosexuality but you view that type of man as obviously the 'man's man'...again I submit your description of the sales associate leads to a perception of homosexuality or mannerisms outside of what you consider based on your values the norm ...and what disturbs is the fact that you chose add "descriptive color" about the sales associate versus the merchandise.

Descriptive terms like this can equal to or lead to a perception of many things including hate, that is what I want YOU TO GET FROM THIS.

As for your "falling from grace" comment...have you a deity issue?

[dtowncitylover]

You provided the typecast by indicating your observation of the salesman. And although you did not say he [[initially) he was a "damned homo" you chose to do so in your reply-- [[your choice of using "damned" may speak volumes of your internalized issues). If you had said the sales associate had been barrel chested and deep voiced [[aka butch) you are correct that popular opinion would have led to a perception of heterosexuality but you view that type of man as obviously the 'man's man'...again I submit your description of the sales associate leads to a perception of homosexuality or mannerisms outside of what you consider based on your values the norm ...and what disturbs is the fact that you chose add "descriptive color" about the sales associate versus the merchandise.

Descriptive terms like this can equal to or lead to a perception of many things including hate, that is what I want YOU TO GET FROM THIS.

As for your "falling from grace" comment...have you a deity issue?

Yikes dude. As a gay man myself, I took no offense from canuck's post and found it a rather light-hearted take on high fashion and upmarket department store attitudes.

There are truths in stereotypes.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

There are truths in stereotypes.

Yikes dude, are you sure you really want to go there, or was that just a poor choice of words?

I'd say a "stereotype" of gay man who says "there are truths in stereotypes" would be that he perceives himself as "straight acting" - and therefore considers himself superior to other gay men - due to his own underlying issues, and freely uses the term "no fems" when shopping for a man.

Or perhaps its racial stereotypes that hold truths for you? Or those involving the poor?

[dtowncitylover]

Yikes dude, are you sure you really want to go there, or was that just a poor choice of words?

I'd say a "stereotype" of gay man who says "there are truths in stereotypes" would be that he perceives himself as "straight acting" - and therefore considers himself superior to other gay men - due to his own underlying issues, and freely uses the term "no fems" when shopping for a man.

Or perhaps its racial stereotypes that hold truths for you? Or those involving the poor?

All I'm saying in Detroitbob read way too much into canuck's post and then attacked him.

I'm not superior. I don't have "underlying issues". But I'm not going to be PC. Stereotypes don't come out of thin air. I don't support using them but I'm not gonna yell at a guy for being homophobic for describing a gay man that was "effeminate". Some gay men are effeminate.

Back to John Varvatos now.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

All I'm saying in Detroitbob read way too much into canuck's post and then attacked him.

I'm not superior. I don't have "underlying issues".

Back to John Varvatos now.

But before we return to Varvatos, I'm still curious as to which stereotypes you find truth in.

[dtowncitylover]

But before we return to Varvatos, I'm still curious as to which stereotypes you find truth in.

Jesus WestCoast lay off. You wanna be PC, good for you. Hell I try my best not to offend. But I'm not going to berate and belittle someone for not knowing everything about sub-cultural terminologies.

And yes, the effeminate, fashionsta gay man is a stereotype I find truth in. Because I've met plenty. And no, I don't look my nose down at them.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Jesus WestCoast lay off. You wanna be PC, good for you. Hell I try my best not to offend. But I'm not going to berate and belittle someone for not knowing everything about sub-cultural terminologies.

And yes, the effeminate, fashionsta gay man is a stereotype I find truth in. Because I've met plenty. And no, I don't look my nose down at them.

OK, you've answered the question. You find truth in gay stereotypes, as, unfortunately, much of society does. I suppose people who use the "PC" card when being challenged on these issues generally fit a certain stereotype too, but I won't go further.

Now off to Varvatos, and look for the straight acting salesguy.

[detroitbob]

OK, you've answered the question. You find truth in gay stereotypes, as, unfortunately, much of society does. I suppose people who use the "PC" card when being challenged on these issues generally fit a certain stereotype too, but I won't go further.

Now off to Varvatos, and look for the straight salesguy.

Thanks DetroiterOnTheWestCoast for entering into the frey. It appears I [[we) ruffled a few feathers on this one. I appreciate that you expressed your sentiments.











DetroiterOnTheWestCoast is online now

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Thanks DetroiterOnTheWestCoast for entering into the frey. It appears I [[we) ruffled a few feathers on this one. I appreciate that you expressed your sentiments.

I suppose a few feather were ruffled, although that was not totally my intention. On a lighter note, I'm surprised that I haven't seen any first hand accounts of having visited the store. Didn't it open today? With all this discussion, some of you must have paid a visit.

http://www.johnvarvatos.com/worldofj...y&fdid=worldOf

[detroitbob]

It did open today and according to a couple friends who work downtown business was brisk and the news stations have featured some coverage. I'm going to drive down in a few minutes and have a look. Will report back. Thanks!

[canuck]

OK, you've answered the question. You find truth in gay stereotypes, as, unfortunately, much of society does. I suppose people who use the "PC" card when being challenged on these issues generally fit a certain stereotype too, but I won't go further.

Now off to Varvatos, and look for the straight acting salesguy.

It wasn't my intention to bash or stereotype anyone. There is a huge variety of human expression that falls between the cracks, and overcomes any attempt at stereotyping. If you ever witnessed a Gay Pride parade, there are the usual displays of campy stereotypes from within the gay community that don't raise eyebrows anymore.

Maybe your salesman at Varvatos won't be acting straight, he will just be relaxed and at ease with himself and the fact that he is gay. Then again, he may turn out to be over the top campy. Either way, they are both entitled to their life and their expression. I reserve the right to do the same.


I do wish the best to Varvatos by the way, the boutique looks great and underlines the beauty of a lot of old Detroit architecture; something many of us here want to see more of.

[detroitbob]

With eastbound I94 being closed from Dearborn thru I96 I didn't make it down until after 7pm, Varvatos was closed but lit up. Managed to get close up of the exterior work and it is first class all the way! The bottoms of the massive cast iron columns had been squared off during the Wright Kay remodel but were restored and even close up one can't tell the bases were repaired. Outstanding job.

Also noted it appears all new windows or glazing in the SS Kresge bldg. at Woodward and State and also in the adjoining SL Byrd store. Major façade work starting on both buildings. I believe the Kresge bldg. is due for a restored cornice in addition to the 1st and 2nd floor façade work. With Richman Brothers underway the street will start to regain some of its architectural integrity.

[gumby]

"lighten up Francis"

[Hermod]

Stereotypes don't come out of thin air. I don't support using them but I'm not gonna yell at a guy for being homophobic for describing a gay man that was "effeminate". Some gay men are effeminate.

Some straight and asexual men are "effeminate" as well. My roommate from college [[class of 61) was asexual [[and when I last saw him in 2011 still was). He was effeminate [[though not cloying) and seemed to have no interest in sex.

[DetBill]

Went in the store yesterday. Really did a great job. The outside reminds me of stores in Boston or Manhattan. Lots of foot traffic inside and people were buying. Very expensive yet very cool merchandise, I only hope the market is there for it. If several more interesting stores can open around it, it will be an stimulating area for retail. I hope somehow all the drunks who hang around at that variety store on the next block dont scare people away. They can be loud and intimidating to some of the walkers by. That store attracts them at all hours. Keeping fingers crossed for Varvatos. Cant remember the last time Ive seen specialty retail done this well downtown. Very impressed.

[detroitbob]

i've seen increased police patrol presence around the "party store" particularily in the evening hours. Also more patrol cars than I remember which is good for all downtown workers and residents. Club Bleu seems to bet increased coverage also at late night bar closing time as do the other licensed establishments.

[stasu1213]

The party store, which shouldn't be on the strip need the police to monitor it for the type of people that hang out in front of the store. I had said years ago that the store wouldn't be a good fit unless the strip is heavily patrolled by police on bicycles or walking just like other cities

[detroitbob]

The party store, which shouldn't be on the strip need the police to monitor it for the type of people that hang out in front of the store. I had said years ago that the store wouldn't be a good fit unless the strip is heavily patrolled by police on bicycles or walking just like other cities

I believe Gilbert et al purchased that building, so I would imagine either the image of the store will 'evolve' when rehab starts full force on Rayl bldg. and the smaller buildings to the north. Can't wait for Rayl's to get the windows opened again and hopefully the cornice restored. This will be one of the most impressive buildings when done...it will rival Wright Kay.

[Mackinaw]

I really hope that Bedrock replicates this proven effort of restoring storefronts and architectural details. We have enough 100+ year old, substantial building to really put our historical urban character on display and have not just a distinctive and memorable downtown [[which we currently have) but a highly distinctive, showpiece downtown. This renovation evokes Broadway in SoHo, and if there are five more similar renovations with tenants that put people on the streets-- all of a sudden it starts to actually feel like Broadway in SoHo. This can only be accomplished in 5-10 major cities nationwide, if that, and the fact that we have the bones to be one of them speaks to our potential. As far as tenant mix goes, I'd love to see Woodward present the options of Fulton Street + Court Street in downtown Brooklyn, which really bridges socioeconomic strata and attracts everyone from across Brooklyn: Macys, Gap, Banana Republic, Niemen Marcus [[outlet), local business like Brooklyn Industries and some thrift shops, Barnes & Noble, a cinema [[should be part of the Hudson's Block development), H&M, and an array of furniture stores, hat shops, sneaker shops... It's basically like combining a deconstructed Somerset with a deconstructed Eastland together in a beautiful urban space with plenty of local businesses to complement. Hey I can dream, but frankly, Detroit needs and I believe can support an integrated retail zone like this.