State Rep Bashes Duggan, M1 Rail, and Downtown Development

[erikd]

Detroit State Rep. Mary Rose Robinson made a number of interesting [[for lack of a better term) claims, accusations, arguments, and assertions in an interview that aired today on "Off The Record."

Among other things, she asserted that "they" [[Duggan and others) were catering to an "artificial community" downtown, while ignoring the neighborhoods. When questioned further on the subject, she then switches up and says that Duggan is only focusing on the "nice neighborhoods", and ignoring the rest of the city neighborhoods, such as the "east side". When the moderator then asks her about Duggan's blight clearance in the bad neighborhoods [[i.e. the neighborhoods she says he is ignoring), she switches up again and says "that not addressing the issues of poverty, unemployment, and poor health."

http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/in...or_mike_d.html

[noggin]

I find it amazing this women has been continually elected this long. She would fit right in the Peoples Republic of North Korea.

[Detroit500]

The neighborhoods will fall in line only after the downtown has been built back up. They will have a halo effect.

[Honky Tonk]

The neighborhoods will fall in line only after the downtown has been built back up....

And pigs learn to fly.

[313WX]

The neighborhoods will fall in line only after the downtown has been built back up.

So basically, the neighborhoods will never "fall in line" as you claim, as we're decades away from downtown ever being built back up and the neighborhoods continue to rapidly decline...

[daddeeo]

They've been throwing money at downtown for almost 40 years.
Neighborhoods have been neglected at least that long.

So basically, the neighborhoods will never "fall in line" as you claim, as we're decades away from downtown ever being built back up and the neighborhoods continue to rapidly decline...

[Bham1982]

The neighborhoods will fall in line only after the downtown has been built back up. They will have a halo effect.

Favorite saying of Detroit boosters from about 1950 to the present. Awaiting said promised "halo effect", as heavily subsidized, dubious outcomes from development downtown magically transform Dexter-Davison any day now.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Favorite saying of Detroit boosters from about 1950 to the present. Awaiting said promised "halo effect", as heavily subsidized, dubious outcomes from development downtown magically transform Dexter-Davison any day now.

A ridiculous statement as usual. Nobody is claiming that downtown development will transform Dexter-Davison "any day now." But it might result in things like the proposed new apartment building in West Village. [[Not long ago, in one of the articles about people being priced out of downtown, a young woman was profile who ended up moving to West Village for a better deal.)

[Wesley Mouch]

The neighborhoods will fall in line only after the downtown has been built back up. They will have a halo effect.

A vibrant downtown can be helped along by civic spirit and contributions. The neighborhoods cannot be helped in the same way.

This idea that it is an either-or is false.

The hoods will heal themselves when we educate our children, rather than fight education reform. Oh, and jobs. And jobs will come more if there is a positive sense of Detroit by outsiders. So stop bashing outsiders. Welcome them. And build a great downtown so outsiders see that success is possible.

[Honky Tonk]

A vibrant downtown can be helped along by civic spirit and contributions. The neighborhoods cannot be helped in the same way.

This idea that it is an either-or is false.

The hoods will heal themselves when we educate our children, rather than fight education reform. Oh, and jobs. And jobs will come more if there is a positive sense of Detroit by outsiders. So stop bashing outsiders. Welcome them. And build a great downtown so outsiders see that success is possible.

With the right amount of subsidizing and tax rebates, anything's "possible" .

[Chicago48]

The neighborhoods will fall in line only after the downtown has been built back up. They will have a halo effect.

LOL
Just like Atlantic City?

[erikd]

The neighborhoods will fall in line only after the downtown has been built back up. They will have a halo effect.

This comment has garnered quite a bit of derision and disagreement, but it isn't completely incorrect.

I would tend to agree that the neighborhoods will only improve after the downtown has been built back up. Revitalization of the downtown does have a halo effect in many cases, but not always.

It would be more accurate to say that revitalization of the neighborhoods [[on a significant or widespread level) requires the revitalization of the downtown, but the revitalization of downtown does not always mean that there will also be a widespread revitalization of the neighborhoods.

There are examples of declining and decayed cities revitalizing their downtowns without revitalizing their neighborhoods, but I'm not sure if there are any instances of declining and decayed cities revitalizing their neighborhoods [[on any widespread level) without revitalizing their downtown.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

This comment has garnered quite a bit of derision and disagreement, but it isn't completely incorrect.

I would tend to agree that the neighborhoods will only improve after the downtown has been built back up. Revitalization of the downtown does have a halo effect in many cases, but not always.

It would be more accurate to say that revitalization of the neighborhoods [[on a significant or widespread level) requires the revitalization of the downtown, but the revitalization of downtown does not always mean that there will also be a widespread revitalization of the neighborhoods.

There are examples of declining and decayed cities revitalizing their downtowns without revitalizing their neighborhoods, but I'm not sure if there are any instances of declining and decayed cities revitalizing their neighborhoods [[on any widespread level) without revitalizing their downtown.

I think your point is what many of us feel - as I dimly recall from a "logic" class many years ago, the revitalization of downtown is a "necessary but not sufficient" step for the revitalization of the neighborhoods. I'd take it further to say the the stabilization and improvement of the "best" neighborhoods is a "necessary but not sufficient" step in the turnaround of the other areas.

This doesn't mean that one should only focus on downtown/midtown and the other "best" areas, and I really don't think the mayor is doing that.

[professorscott]

The neighborhoods will fall in line only after the downtown has been built back up. They will have a halo effect.

One of the things we all have to keep in mind is that "build" is a verb. Neighborhoods do not fail nor do they build up; people cause these things to happen. Somebody has to decide to build, or rebuild, and this takes time, money and energy. Right now there is a lot of excitement in the downtown-midtown corridor because a collective of people with money and energy [[and sufficient money to buy the time of others, including that of your kindly old professor for a while, some years back) have decided to pour their resources into that area: M1 Rail, Mr. Gilbert's voracious appetite for land, and so forth.

Any neighborhood can be rebuilt if sufficient interest can be assembled among those with time and/or money and/or energy. There seems to be a hint among much of what is written here that some government entity can do the yeoman's share of the lifting in this-or-that neighborhood, but I think that's false. Government can be helpful and cooperative - look at the governmental cooperation at all levels, without which M1 Rail would not have been remotely possible. But the problems of any particular neighborhood cannot be solved by Gov. Snyder writing a check.

Another interesting place to look, and miles away from downtown, is at the improvements made and proposed in the Livernois - Seven Mile neighborhood. Again, anything positive here requires government cooperation to some degree, but it is private and/or philanthropic interests that have to carry the ball.

If you live somewhere that is in the doldrums, your job is not to protest governmental indifference, though that [[the indifference) is rampant and unhelpful. That might make you feel better; it might be cathartic, but it won't help change things. The government follows the interest shown by others. Gather your people, find some amount of funding, make some improvements, crow about all of this in the press, and the government people will fall into line. This is how it works pretty much everywhere.

In my youth I embraced the energy and activism neatly summed up by the old slogan "speak truth to power". In my older and hopefully wiser years, I've learned that it matters how you speak that truth, and with what you back your words. Change is possible: M1 Rail is under construction. Eight years ago, if you'd told me this would be so, I'd have thought you nuts, but here we are. I know some of the folks here don't like Messrs. Penske, Gilbert and so on, but that's not important: learn from what they did and how they did it, regardless of what you feel about anyone personally. And, yes, they did have the slight advantage of significant collective personal wealth, but if you don't, make partnerships.

[mwilbert]

There are people who sincerely believe that it is unjust to focus attention on greater downtown and a few relatively affluent neighborhoods while mostly ignoring the poorer ones. This representative appears to be of that opinion. I kind of agree about the unfairness, but from the standpoint of improving life in the city in general, with very limited resources, you probably need to focus those resources on the places that need less help, not those that need more. No residents of the city benefit from the current very low levels of average income and taxpaying capacity.

It is also hard to understand how the neighborhoods can be made more viable without better, accessible employment opportunities for their current residents and potential new arrivals. If you are going to get those at all, it seems to me that you are primarily going to get them by making the core city more attractive to businesses. So I understand her complaint, but I wouldn't want to use it as a basis for redevelopment policy.

[Chicago48]

There are people who sincerely believe that it is unjust to focus attention on greater downtown and a few relatively affluent neighborhoods while mostly ignoring the poorer ones. This representative appears to be of that opinion. I kind of agree about the unfairness, but from the standpoint of improving life in the city in general, with very limited resources, you probably need to focus those resources on the places that need less help, not those that need more. No residents of the city benefit from the current very low levels of average income and taxpaying capacity.

It is also hard to understand how the neighborhoods can be made more viable without better, accessible employment opportunities for their current residents and potential new arrivals. If you are going to get those at all, it seems to me that you are primarily going to get them by making the core city more attractive to businesses. So I understand her complaint, but I wouldn't want to use it as a basis for redevelopment policy.

I'm of a mind to believe that the majority of the residents [[who happen to be black) need to be educated -- again -- about just the basic things about life. How to talk properly, how to say thank you, please; how to use etiquette and manners; how to be clean and how to clean their neighborhoods.
Is there anything wrong with demanding -- yes demanding -- that everybody in every neighborhood get out and help clean the streets and the alleys at least once a week? Pick up some bottles and paper?
What would help and would have helped detroit homeowners greatly is every decent neighborhood have a "home owners association" like the suburbs do. That keeps home owners and landlords in line.

[TKshreve]

I'm of a mind to believe that the majority of the residents [[who happen to be black) need to be educated -- again -- about just the basic things about life. How to talk properly, how to say thank you, please; how to use etiquette and manners; how to be clean and how to clean their neighborhoods.
Is there anything wrong with demanding -- yes demanding -- that everybody in every neighborhood get out and help clean the streets and the alleys at least once a week? Pick up some bottles and paper?
What would help and would have helped detroit homeowners greatly is every decent neighborhood have a "home owners association" like the suburbs do. That keeps home owners and landlords in line.

Interesting this did not catch the eyes and ears of this forum. I'm not so quick to dismiss the premise of this idea at all. It could say a lot to see everyday Detroiter's [[of all colors) looking for quick, cheap and manageable ways to improve not only their livelihoods, but there surroundings as well. You don't need a Bachelors degree to clean up your neighborhood. More so, it would send a strong message to investors, tourists and potential homebuyers that Detroit is currently tugging at its bootstraps and we care about improving the culture throughout this city.

It's true, there are a lot of residents who lack the skill sets and etiquette to solicit jobs that afford a decent standard of living. Perhaps the schools failed them, and they are stuck in a single parent home. I get it. I also understand that this lack of education and business communication skills is generationally exacerbating itself.

[rex]

its easy to be a critic. I sincerely doubt she could do better. Best we can hope for is a strong core that grows outward. Nobody will give neighborhood detroit a chance without adequate public services. The poor, unemployed, underemployed, and unwell arent able to contribute so you focus where you can. Those with means invariably float service costs for thats without.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

She makes a valid point about money corrupting the system, and I am definitely left of center. But I'm practical as well. If she does not caucus with her fellow Democrats in Lansing, what can she actually accomplish?

And as many have said here before, without a growing tax base, which I only see being restored by a vibrant downtown and midtown, where will the funds for services come from? Not from Lansing, with the GOP Teabaggers in charge. [[Off topic, but Michigan's race to become the Alabama or Mississippi of the north being imposed by those Teabaggers is making Michigan a laughing stock in the more progressive parts of the country, and is one of many reasons some of us cannot see ourselves returning.)

http://www.equalitymi.org/media-cent...oster-children

[BankruptcyGuy]

She makes a valid point about money corrupting the system, and I am definitely left of center. But I'm practical as well. If she does not caucus with her fellow Democrats in Lansing, what can she actually accomplish?

And as many have said here before, without a growing tax base, which I only see being restored by a vibrant downtown and midtown, where will the funds for services come from? Not from Lansing, with the GOP Teabaggers in charge. [[Off topic, but Michigan's race to become the Alabama or Mississippi of the north being imposed by those Teabaggers is making Michigan a laughing stock in the more progressive parts of the country, and is one of many reasons some of us cannot see ourselves returning.)

http://www.equalitymi.org/media-cent...oster-children

And what "progressive" parts are those? Illinois, California, New York and New Jersey, who are awfully close to 1-4 in the most underfunded pension plans? Progressive states like Massachusetts and Maryland, who were so fed up with high taxes and failed economic policies that those deep blue states elected Republican governors? And in case you didn't notice, when the "teabaggers" [[nice offensive term) were NOT in charge in Lansing, and Jenny G. was, were Detroit and Michigan held up as a shining examples of a city and a state? Didn't think so.

Duggan is doing exactly as he should--tackling the problems that are within the City's control, like balancing a budget, improving public services and attracting development.

Offending some very high percentage of the population of the Greater Detroit area is probably not the best way to energize people and get them enthusiastic about Detroit's comeback.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

And what "progressive" parts are those? Illinois, California, New York and New Jersey, who are awfully close to 1-4 in the most underfunded pension plans? Progressive states like Massachusetts and Maryland, who were so fed up with high taxes and failed economic policies that those deep blue states elected Republican governors? And in case you didn't notice, when the "teabaggers" [[nice offensive term) were NOT in charge in Lansing, and Jenny G. was, were Detroit and Michigan held up as a shining examples of a city and a state? Didn't think so.

Duggan is doing exactly as he should--tackling the problems that are within the City's control, like balancing a budget, improving public services and attracting development.

Offending some very high percentage of the population of the Greater Detroit area is probably not the best way to energize people and get them enthusiastic about Detroit's comeback.

Yes, I'm including California and any other state where the legislators are not motivated by hate, and hell-bent on institutionalizing discrimination. Perhaps if it were directed towards you....you might understand that.

Maybe the legislature could spend its time on things other than Right to Discriminate bills, and ensuring that more kids will remain in foster care [[how pro-child of them). Those actions, and the state's continuing opposition marriage equality really do make Michigan appear to be more in line with Mississippi and Alabama [[red states with SUCH wonderful accomplishments).

If you don't like the teabagger name, should I instead refer to them as Christo-Fascist Theocrats?

I think Duggan is doing a fine job, and never said otherwise.

[BankruptcyGuy]

Yes, I'm including California and any other state where the legislators are not motivated by hate, and hell-bent on institutionalizing discrimination. Perhaps if it were directed towards you....you might understand that.

Maybe the legislature could spend its time on things other than Right to Discriminate bills, and ensuring that more kids will remain in foster care [[how pro-child of them). Those actions, and the state's continuing opposition marriage equality really do make Michigan appear to be more in line with Mississippi and Alabama [[red states with SUCH wonderful accomplishments).

If you don't like the teabagger name, should I instead refer to them as Christo-Fascist Theocrats?

I think Duggan is doing a fine job, and never said otherwise.

i understand and that the issue of balancing religious freedoms and rights for everyone raises people's blood pressure. But bills proposed in the legislature but not passed aren't the best indicator of the collective beliefs of a state or even a legislative body. I don't think there's much doubt that marriage equality will be resolved by the Supreme Court in the next three months.

heck, even your state passed a state-wide referendum banning gay marriage. Is California racing to be like Mississippi as well?

this is an issue where public opinion has done a radical shift in the last 10 years. For the good, I think.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

i understand and that the issue of balancing religious freedoms and rights for everyone raises people's blood pressure. But bills proposed in the legislature but not passed aren't the best indicator of the collective beliefs of a state or even a legislative body. I don't think there's much doubt that marriage equality will be resolved by the Supreme Court in the next three months.

heck, even your state passed a state-wide referendum banning gay marriage. Is California racing to be like Mississippi as well?

this is an issue where public opinion has done a radical shift in the last 10 years. For the good, I think.

Yes, California narrowly passed Prop 8 in 2008, after a huge influx of Mormon and Catholic Church funding. Then, unlike in Michigan, the state not only refused to defend it but supported its being overturned. The state officials in Michigan, on the other hand [[including, for the most part, the Governor) seem to be emulating George Wallace in the schoolhouse door. The "leadership" is desperately behind the times in this and so many other ways.

[erikd]

And what "progressive" parts are those? Illinois, California, New York and New Jersey, who are awfully close to 1-4 in the most underfunded pension plans? Progressive states like Massachusetts and Maryland, who were so fed up with high taxes and failed economic policies that those deep blue states elected Republican governors? And in case you didn't notice, when the "teabaggers" [[nice offensive term) were NOT in charge in Lansing, and Jenny G. was, were Detroit and Michigan held up as a shining examples of a city and a state? Didn't think so.

Duggan is doing exactly as he should--tackling the problems that are within the City's control, like balancing a budget, improving public services and attracting development.

Offending some very high percentage of the population of the Greater Detroit area is probably not the best way to energize people and get them enthusiastic about Detroit's comeback.

BankruptcyGuy,

DetroiterOnTheWestCoast is absolutely correct by saying that Rep. Robinson is not being practical, and is unlikely to accomplish much of anything with her combination of choosing to not caucus with her fellow Democrats in Lansing, vilifying Mayor Duggan, and opposing development in downtown and virtually every other city neighborhood that is seeing an influx of new development and residents. Rep. Robinson wants more support and funding for the poorest and most disadvantaged residents and neighborhoods in Detroit, but how does fiercely opposing the state Democratic party and the resurgence of downtown and other city neighborhoods help to achieve those goals? If she refuses to support, or at least work with her allies, then who does she think will step up to help her cause? It certainly won't be the hard-right Tea Party GOPers in Lansing. Rep. Robinson has fallen victim to the perfect solution fallacy, where any plan or strategy that doesn't solve every aspect of the problem is wrong and should be rejected.

[Danny]

The state rep, can bash all he or she wants. Detroit is back in its second renaissance. New regional businesses filling up buildings, its public services back on track, crime is slowly shrinking and other businesses are taking care. Detroit has a mayor that takes care of business, not throwing Manoogian Parties. Our city council oversees its own districts, not entire neighborhoods. That State rep. probably never visited Detroit a while. If they rep. did he or she would think it's still fill with poor black people pacified under food stamps and welfare checks. Or its family told the rep. don't go to any store in Detroit unless you have a gun in your pocket.