New Businesses Coming to Downtown Thanks to Dan Gilbert/Bedrock

[MAcc]

being able to make unbiased observation has nothing to do with living or working downtown. i actually get to see the progress first hand and get to see how much further the city needs to go, unlike you who enjoys posting "juicy curbed comments" and trying to pass them off as articles to further your trolling. i cant wait for your next made up pearl of wisdom that you maybe read on the comment section of curbed at some point. you just ooze credibility.

You're personally and professionally invested in Detroit. That is bias. Nobody calls their baby ugly.

[MSUguy]

When I click your links, I don't see the vacancy rate on there. I see some of the stuff they have available. Where does it say the First National has a 1.5% vacancy rate?

Why would he lie? I already answered that. It's called creating scarcity to sell. It's a common marketing 101 technique. Ex. if you said you have the last Furby [[when it first came out), newest playstation or video game before christmas or anything where you say you have the last one, it'll sell more quickly than a shelf full of them the public can view. Suggesting everybody wants to rent it by offering very little for rent is a very good way to market it. Scarcity sells and that's what they are doing. Government data is saying something completely different about downtown office vacancy rates. Why?

Yes, the First National and Penobscott are both Class A buildings. I know that. When I was comparing them, I meant for that age group of building. The 47 storey Penobscott was built in 1928. First National was built in 1930. They are block apart in distance. That's why it's an apples to apples comparison.

Alot of words but nothing to back them up. Bedrock's website clearly says there is only 508 sq ft of office space for rent until prove otherwise your just trolling

[MSUguy]

You do have an agenda, you live [[and work) downtown.

And sorry, I don't have a source. I don't bookmark juicy curbed Detroit comments.

Of course, you don't have a source, you're just making shit up because you're a troll.

I'm surprised Bham's ass hasn't chimed to defend these "realist"..er.. trolls

[davewindsor]

Quite frankly, after one's discovered who the trolls are you've gotten your point across, you just have to kind of drop them. There are two people in this thread who should not be engaged seriously, one of them is epic for their long-time trolling using reflexive cynicism.

Empty responses from you as usual, so who's the troll? Show me the government data on their vacancy rate or stfu.

[ABetterDetroit]

Of course, you don't have a source, you're just making shit up because you're a troll.

I'm surprised Bham's ass hasn't chimed to defend these "realist"..er.. trolls

LMAO!!! He already did, this very troll! Another thread, you must have missed it. They are very predictable aren't they?

[davewindsor]

Alot of words but nothing to back them up. Bedrock's website clearly says there is only 508 sq ft of office space for rent until prove otherwise your just trolling

I already explained in my earlier posts why this vacancy rate is implausible.

Oh, and we should just trust Bedrock at face value right? Not that their credibility is impeccable, right? Take a look at Ripoffreports.com There's only 2,348 complaints that his main company Quicken Loans lied and ripped them off. No response or attempts for resolution made by Quicken Loans on their website. Just take the money and run.

Have a look at this one: [[http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Quicken-Loans/Detroit-Michigan/Quicken-Loans-Bait-switch-Misrepresentation-Detroit-Michigan-1181282"

Report: #1181282
Quicken Loans Bait & switch Misrepresentation Detroit Michigan


On July 17, I spoke a Ray Nowden reference a refinance. He told me that the new payment would be $890 per month, there would be a closing cost of $700.

I signed the contract for that amount. I also authorized them to charge $200 on my credit card as a good faith payment.
The next thing I know there is another contract sent for me to sign that stated the payments would be $1100+ per month and that I would need $4000 for closing.
I sent them an e-mail on July 26, stating I no longer wanted to do business with them because of misrepresentation. They refused to stop the process and harrased me for months over the loan.
They actually said the loan was still active on Sept 14. and now are refusing to refund my $200 with this as an excuse.

Here's another one with no response from Quicken Loans:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Quicke...onwide-1175401

Report: #1175401
Quicken Loans Sleaziest Mortgage Lenders Nationwide

I had aloan with Quicken and they called to offer a refi "that will not cost you a penny". I sent an email to thier closing dept. asking for assurance that their promise to cover all costs would mean that my loan amount would not increase...""Yes" was the reply and your old escrow will roll over into your new one - so there will be no coasts to you. It was a total lie - they ended up adding thousands of dollars to my loan amount. If my refi wasn't about to expire I would have left this whole crooked deal behind. Have nothing to do with Quicken Loans - it is a bait and switch opereration. They will tell you anything to get you to sign the contract. Chris Milton MA

Here's another one with no response that claims they lost their $5000 deposit plus $1000 in upfront fees because of their bait and switch. I could do this all day:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Quicke...onwide-1172449

Report 1172449
Quicken Loans Used Bait-and-Switch Tactic Detroit, Mi Nationwide

I applied for a mortgage loan with Quicken Loans. Originally my fiancé and I were both supposed to be on the loan but since my credit score is much higher Quicken recommended to remove him from the loan and have only me on there even though I make much less money than him which we pointed out to our Lender who insured us that it would not be a problem. We submitted all the documentation they required [[recent paystubs, W2's, bank statements and so on) and they also ran our credit reports. After they pre-approved us/me we picked out a home and made an offer and came to an agreement with the seller. We immediately submitted a copy of the contract to Quicken. Quicken sent us the Good Faith Estimate showing that our closing cost would be $16,264.00 and our monthly Mortgage Payment will be $1,311.36 plus $175 for the HOA fee. The seller required a $5000 down payment which we paid right away, we also paid $500 to Quicken for the appraisal and paid another $515 for the home inspection which according to the contract had to be done within 10 days. Now we're 3 weeks away from our closing day [[September 15th) and the underwriters at Quicken are telling us that I don't make enough money to qualify for the loan, something we had already brought to their attention BEFORE the entire process started and were told that it would be ok. They said that they forgot to add the HOA fee which is ridiculous because it is clearly stated in the contract and even in the Good Faith Estimate Quicken sent to us. Now they're saying that they would have to add my fiancé back on because of my debt to ratio income being to high [[after they added the HOA) but due to his lower credit score we would have to get a different loan, one that has a PMI [[we had told them from the very beginning that we did NOT want a PMI). After adding him back on last week they sent us a revised Good Faith Estimate that has now $20,815.17 as closing cost [[$4,551.17 higher than the first estimate) and a Monthly Mortgage Payment of $1,476.47 plus $175 HOA fee [[$165.11 higher than the first estimate) and a $25 a month lower insurance rate [[they made us adjust the homeowner's policy to reflect a higher deductible to safe some money). The PMI is listed as $206.13. With all the numbers having gone up like this we no longer can afford the house, we were going by what was originally quoted to us. Not only are we going to have to back out of the house contract but we don't know if we can get the $5000 down payment back and there is also the $500 appraisal fee and $515 for the inspection that we know for sure we won't be getting back, that's over $1000 lost for sure. We're also in a time crunch because our lease at our current place runs out on September 15th, after that we have to go month to month at a higher rate of $242 a month. Since we have no house now which is devastating enough and have to start the entire process all over again it will cause additional hardship having to go month to month for several months until we find another house and can close on it. I don't know exactly what our rights are here but it seems so very wrong that they can change the numbers like that after we had provided all the necessary information and were given an estimate. They knew exactly how much money we're making and what our credit scores are before they sent the first estimate. Nothing has changed since then and yet they all of a sudden decide that we or I don't qualify after all and that our closing cost and monthly payment will now be much higher. We were in almost daily contact with Quicken throughout this entire process and they kept reassuring us that everything is fine. Is there anything we can do short of having to take legal actions? I find it so hard to believe that they do not have to honor the estimates they give. There has to be some kind of consumer protection against something like this.

[Mind field]

DaveWindsor is right everyone! Only about 10 people work in the first national building!!!! I called the government and they told me!!!! Also i only saw about 8 or 65 lights on in the building last night so that's proof it's not full!!! Don't you guys know that Canadians know everything???

[mwilbert]

Empty responses from you as usual, so who's the troll? Show me the government data on their vacancy rate or stfu.

I have no idea what the vacancy rate of the building is, but it is unlikely that there is any "government data" of the type you are asking for. The occupancy rate isn't something you need to do commercial tax assessments, so it is doubtful that data is collected, and if it were, the data would be out of date because they don't update the underlying assessment data every year, and even when they do update the data, it is usually at least a year before the collected data moves from the internal assessment process into the public data. And of course, in this case the data would have been collected by the city or the county, neither of which I imagine you would have much faith in. In general, the occupancy data people have comes from real estate industry sources, not the government.

[Mackinaw]

DaveWindsor is right everyone! Only about 10 people work in the first national building!!!! I called the government and they told me!!!! Also i only saw about 8 or 65 lights on in the building last night so that's proof it's not full!!! Don't you guys know that Canadians know everything???

LOL! Priceless.

And a few consumer-reported "fraud" incidents concerning the nation's second-largest mortgage lender DEFINITELY establishes that building is not as full as Bedrock, a kind-of related entity, says it is. Read all a-boot it!

[davewindsor]

I have no idea what the vacancy rate of the building is, but it is unlikely that there is any "government data" of the type you are asking for. The occupancy rate isn't something you need to do commercial tax assessments, so it is doubtful that data is collected, and if it were, the data would be out of date because they don't update the underlying assessment data every year, and even when they do update the data, it is usually at least a year before the collected data moves from the internal assessment process into the public data. And of course, in this case the data would have been collected by the city or the county, neither of which I imagine you would have much faith in. In general, the occupancy data people have comes from real estate industry sources, not the government.

It's there. How do you think they arrive at assessments on skyscrapers? They use rent multipliers as part of their assessment. As you recall, I'm quite sure it was you that made comments on vacant boarded up skyscrapers that were paying just several grand a year in property taxes. Why do you think it's so low if a rent multiplier isn't used? And that's just at the city property tax level.

If you want to real estate association sources, I'm game. Use it.

But, nothing you've stated here has supported a vacancy rate of 1.5% on the First National.

[davewindsor]

LOL! Priceless.

And a few consumer-reported "fraud" incidents concerning the nation's second-largest mortgage lender DEFINITELY establishes that building is not as full as Bedrock, a kind-of related entity, says it is. Read all a-boot it!

No, it just establishes that they can't be trusted at face value. I bet you trust all those financial giants on Wall Street at face value after the bailout too, right?

[davewindsor]

DaveWindsor is right everyone! Only about 10 people work in the first national building!!!! I called the government and they told me!!!! Also i only saw about 8 or 65 lights on in the building last night so that's proof it's not full!!! Don't you guys know that Canadians know everything???

Ok, that's just trolling.

[mwilbert]

It's there. How do you think they arrive at assessments on skyscrapers? They use rent multipliers as part of their assessment. As you recall, I'm quite sure it was you that made comments on vacant boarded up skyscrapers that were paying just several grand a year in property taxes. Why do you think it's so low if a rent multiplier isn't used? And that's just at the city property tax level.

If you want to real estate association sources, I'm game. Use it.

But, nothing you've stated here has supported a vacancy rate of 1.5% on the First National.

I agree that assessors use building income as a factor in commercial assessment [[it is one of the three main methods for valuing a commercial property) but you can calculate the income for assessment purposes without knowing the occupancy rate. Unless the building is distressed you would normally include income that could be realized if unrented space were rented, so that the property taxes don't automatically go down just because the building loses a tenant. Also, given how old assessment data often is, it wouldn't make much sense for them to base an assessment on occupancy, which might have changed a lot since they gathered data. If the building owner doesn't like the valuation they get, they will routinely appeal the assessment, and maybe occupancy data would be included as part of that appeal, especially if a building has an ongoing occupancy problem, but I wouldn't expect it to be subsequently maintained by the city, or to be comprehensive, and I absolutely wouldn't expect it to be current. But I'm not claiming any of this tells us anything about the occupancy of the First National building; saying that information probably isn't available isn't asserting anything about what that information would be if it were available.

[TTime]

I used to work for one of the big commercial real estate data providers and you can guess where vacancy rates come from. Maybe someone can confirm this because I haven't worked in the industry for a few years but vacancy rates are largely derived from information provided by commercial real estate brokers and tenants but the primary source for this information is the landlords. If you can't understand why a landlord might fudge their vacancy rates then you don't understand how the negotiations for space work. Go walk the building during prime office hours if you want an idea of how much space is available...and yes I realize this is difficult with ever increasing security but if you don't see tenants or construction that space is probably vacant. Vacancy rates, just like any numbers, can be easily manipulated to suite someone's needs and in general if you want to know the real story ask a commercial real estate broker or a landlord who isn't trying to sell you space and maybe you'll get the real answer.

[TTime]

Also there is another added layer to downtown's vacancy rates. It's probably not necessary to state that Gilbert owns plenty of the space and he fills that space with many companies he owns or has invested in. Is it possible that he has allotted his companies with more space, or even way more, than they would typically use or need to create the illusion of demand? I'm not saying this is the case but that's what I would do if I were in his shoes.