Defund the DPS!

[DetroitTeacher]

My point [[apparently not clearly made) was that "inclusion" in the sense Detroitteacher used it is jargon. I didn't think Maxine1958 recognized that, and therefore thought the usage awkward, particularly for an English teacher.

Of course, I could have been mistaken about that. Sorry for being confusing.

It was a bit unclear exactly what was education jargon by the way you quoted Maxine's statement. I would still like to know what Maxine thought was wrong with my stating I teach English in a high school. I could have also stated that I teach high school English or I teach English at a local high school. Any of those is correct.

I wanted to mention the inclusion because it was previously stated that special education students would end up short changed if DPS were to move to vouchers. That is very true. Charters and private schools do NOT have to provide services for students with special needs [[some do). Providing services falls to the local public school district. Do they always do a great job? No! Although I have to say we have 3 self contained classrooms for students with ASD and the teachers in those classes are wonderful and the students are growing by leaps and bounds. I have become close to the teachers and the students [[they have all been very helpful to me while I am earning my Master's degrees in LD and ASD). I understand what the poster above said about securing services for kids with ASD. It's VERY difficult and there isn't much support out there in terms of therapy and educational services. It seems that the insurance providers, the therapists, and the educational system all seem to work against the parents and kids.

[EastSider]

Of course continuing to do what we're doing now would be irresponsible. Again, no one is saying otherwise. Are they? But that does not mean that defunding public education in Detroit [[I am intentionally avoiding specifying DPS) is the only other answer. It's just the easiest and most glib answer. And an answer that eliminates a system without specifics on how you would build something better in place of what you eliminated just happens to fit my own personal definition of irresponsible.

But, maybe you can just give everyone a $13,500 voucher and all will be right with the [[educational) world in Detroit.

Who's "defunding public education in Detroit?" You're allowing the headline to frame your viewpoint. Latter in the piece, the author references "public schools."

Families would not be forced to enroll their kids in a private school. There would still be a public school system in the conventional sense in Detroit. This would be a way to force the school district to improve and compete for students without their ineptitude forcing people to move out of the city to get a better education for their kids.

[Boo Stinking Boo]

Is it true that schools get more money per student who's diagnosed with ADHD and or learning disabilities?

[EastSider]

The feds and the state are supposed to pay the costs of special ed. The state has historically shortchanged the local districts, to the point at least two lawsuits were filed [[both named Durand, I recall). The feds likewise don't contribute their required share.

The goal of the special funding is to relieve the local district of the additional costs special ed requires. It's frequently used to accuse districts of trying to inflate the numbers of special ed certifications to somehow get "extra money," but that claim ignores the history of special ed funding issues.

[Maxine1958]

DetroitTeacher, I was referring to your post #13 in this thread. Admittedly, I'm not an expert at spelling and grammar, but I lost count after about 10 glaring errors in that post. I understand this is a simple public message board, and there is a recognized tolerance for some posters here. So I was curious to know what you taught. I'll get off my small, short soapbox now.

[barnesfoto]

perhaps Maxine could show Detroit Teacher how to be a better English teacher by volunteering to co-teach a few of her classes, or perhaps she could us some examples of how effectively she teaches in a crumbling, dysfunctional school system.

[Maxine1958]

I wasn't specifically critiquing DetroitTeacher's teaching ability or the difficulty of attempting to teach in the current environment of the schools or the school system. I am just so disappointed when people who are supposed to have an education cannot manage the simple fundemental skills.

[Roq]

perhaps Maxine could show Detroit Teacher how to be a better English teacher by volunteering to co-teach a few of her classes, or perhaps she could us some examples of how effectively she teaches in a crumbling, dysfunctional school system.

When your profession is as an English teacher, possessing basic spelling and grammar skills should be a given.

[Maxine1958]

When your profession is as an English teacher, possessing basic spelling and grammar skills should be a given.

Thank you, Roq

[Crumbled_pavement]

DetroitTeacher, I was referring to your post #13 in this thread. Admittedly, I'm not an expert at spelling and grammar, but I lost count after about 10 glaring errors in that post. I understand this is a simple public message board, and there is a recognized tolerance for some posters here. So I was curious to know what you taught. I'll get off my small, short soapbox now.

Granted, I'm no English major so I wouldn't know what was misspelled or poorly worded anyway, but maybe you could point it out. I ran DetroitTeacher's #13 post through MS Word's spelling & grammar checker and it only found a missing comma and one word spelled wrong. Granted, spellchecker is just a starting point and not the only method of proofreading. Maybe you could point out the other 10 flaws because now I'm intrigued.

[DetroitTeacher]

I am responding to these posts because of the passion I have for my kids [[students). I often type and then rethink what I've written and go back and edit. I do this because I've forgotten something or move things around. My brain works faster than my fingers type, sorry. I am also working on an ancient computer because most of my money is sucked back into my job. The keys stick and the screen is scratchy. I overlook things and sometimes don't see a wayward comma or period stuck in someplace. Maxine, why don't you correct post 13 for me and let's see how bad it really is?

**I did spell shenanigans wrong and left out the h in "short of"...

[Roq]

I am responding to these posts because of the passion I have for my kids [[students). I often type and then rethink what I've written and go back and edit.

You seem very dedicated and committed to teaching your kids and I applaud that; Detroit needs more teachers that actually care about their profession.
My point is that you shouldn't be surprised that people may comment on grammatical and/or spelling errors when you tell them that you are a High School English teacher.

[DetroitTeacher]

Maxine hasn't provided me with examples of my grammatical/spelling errors. It sounded as if Maxine was not shocked that I teach in DPS because of those errors [[only the shittiest teachers for the kids, right?). I gave my explanation as to why there may be a lack of the "simple fundamental skills".

[jbd441]

I'm an ex-Detroiter and I was educated in Michigan. I can honestly say as a property tax payer in the State of Florida I research everything I can concerning public schools. We have charter schools in the county where I live. The school board is responsible for their existence. Some schools have strict disciplinary codes and zero tolerance for ANY type of misbehavior. Parents keep their children in line at school because charter schools are "chic" in social circles. If a student is expelled, they go right back into the public school system where they continue their disruptive behavior. Right now charter schools and taxpayer funded gifted schools are the "new" private schools for the financially well off. Also our district has yet to see a $1.50 for every $1.00 savings with vouchers or charter schools. That Freep article reads like an advertisement.

[Thames]

DetroitTeacher,

Post #13 was just fine. You had a lot to say and you said it clearly and intelligently.

Maxine, we're just having a conversation. Relax. There are several other posts on this thread I would critique before post #13.

I don't see any problem with that post, so there is no use in trying to explain the errors to me. You should just rewrite post #13 the right way. I'm curious as to why it was such a blunder. I mean really, what was wrong with it? What didn't you understand?

[firstandten]

You seem very dedicated and committed to teaching your kids and I applaud that; Detroit needs more teachers that actually care about their profession.
My point is that you shouldn't be surprised that people may comment on grammatical and/or spelling errors when you tell them that you are a High School English teacher.

I don't comment on such things unless the post is unreadable or I can't understand the logic, HS teacher or not. I understood very clearly DT post 10. I think the nitpicking is uncalled for and it takes away from the unique position she has in terms of being able to comment on some of the ills of DPS since she is on the front lines.

[Maxine1958]

I didn't intend for this to become a mitpicking session. BUT since you asked:

I agree, we need to rid DPS of its dead weight [[teachers, staff, board, admin). [[Misplaced comma - minor issue) I don't have the golden answer that will make it all better for the kids. [["better for all the kids") I do my part with what I have and who the parents send me. I think one of the answers is to get people in DPS who actually care about the kids and their education. Another answer is to start getting parents involved. [[I don't know how since most parents don't want to come to the school unless we take a kid's cell phone or there is a fight that they feel the need to be involved in). [[Parentheses not needed. Full sentences) I've invited parents to sit in on my class, invited them to chaperone the few field trips we are allowed to take [[all paid for by an outside source), invited them to performances of their kids' poetry and mini skits...not ONE has shown up in the 13 years I've been teaching. Heck, I see an average of 5 parents [[out of 140 kids) at Parent Teacher Conferences and they are never the parents I really need to see. I can't get a parent on the phone when there is an issue. If you were the kids, how would YOU feel about your education if no one at home gave a damn? [[Not 'damned')

Are there good students and good parents? Sure. I see the problem from the inside out. I am NOT saying DPS is not at fault...they have the majority of the fault. [["they are the most at fault") I have seen classes combined in the middle of a card marking because we lost teachers [[for various reasons). I've seen teachers sleeping in class. There are a myriad of problems that need to be addressed. I just don't know that giving kids vouchers is the answer because they can always come back to us but we'll have no funding to give them the basics. Right now, at least I have the bare minimum with which to do my job...they can't cut much more from me since I have little to begin with. I have a chalkboard, and not enough books. [[Run on sentences) THAT is what I work with on a daily basis. I even buy my own chalk!

Sort [[should be "Short") of dismantling DPS altogether and only having private and charter schools in the city, I don't see an answer. Once the charters and private schools get tired of some of the kids for their chenanigans [[shenanigans), fights, weapons, etc [["etc.,) where are the kids going to go when they get kicked out? Right now, they come back to DPS. By law, they have the right to a public education.

I'm sorry that I ruffled so many feathers with this. I am always amazed at the number of obvious errors in many of the media articles and news stories. So I've become a bit of a stickler for spotting them. I am fully aware that these forums are written quickly and spontaneously, so some things fall through the cracks. In the future I'll keep these types of comments to myself.

In all honesty, if DetroitTeacher had taught almost anything other than high school English, I probably wouldn't have taken it any further.

[firstandten]

I didn't intend for this to become a mitpicking session. BUT since you asked:



I'm sorry that I ruffled so many feathers with this. I am always amazed at the number of obvious errors in many of the media articles and news stories. So I've become a bit of a stickler for spotting them. I am fully aware that these forums are written quickly and spontaneously, so some things fall through the cracks. In the future I'll keep these types of comments to myself.

Thank you, because I think on a public discussion board the quality of the argument , the statements made to hopefully enlighten and maybe educate trumps grammar mistakes used to win a point.

BTW I meant post 13 not 10

[Roq]

Maxine hasn't provided me with examples of my grammatical/spelling errors. It sounded as if Maxine was not shocked that I teach in DPS because of those errors [[only the shittiest teachers for the kids, right?). I gave my explanation as to why there may be a lack of the "simple fundamental skills".

Noted. I, like most of us, see things from our own perspective and I believe proper punctuation, grammar and spelling are very important in communicating even though teaching English is not my profession. It is difficult for me to imagine that someone who is actually an English teacher would not be compulsive about this as well.

Also, just to comment on another point recently made [[not by you), I don't subscribe at all to the "oh, it's only a message board, who cares?" school of thought. The people reading your message, regardless of whether it is a post here or a graduate thesis, should not have to guess or mentally reword sentence structure in the hopes of figuring out what meaning you are trying to get across.

That being said, I do not, in any way, assume you are a "shitty" teacher because you work for DPS.

[Roq]

I am always amazed at the number of obvious errors in many of the media articles and news stories. So I've become a bit of a stickler for spotting them.

Agreed. The Detroit News and Free Press on any given day publish articles with poor sentence structure, misspelled words and atrocious grammar. I can excuse most people from these errors but newspapers for a major American city? Not a chance.

[Maxine1958]

Agreed. The Detroit News and Free Press on any given day publish articles with poor sentence structure, misspelled words and atrocious grammar. I can excuse most people from these errors but newspapers for a major American city? Not a chance.

And it's gotten worse since they stopped the daily deliveries. It seems now the best we can hope for, especially in the online version, are expanded headlines with little, or in some cases, no details. What happened to the 5 journalism W's? Who? What? When? Where? & Why?

Sorry, that rant is completely off topic. Continue.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Agreed. The Detroit News and Free Press on any given day publish articles with poor sentence structure, misspelled words and atrocious grammar. I can excuse most people from these errors but newspapers for a major American city? Not a chance.

I agree with this, simply because these people are paid to write these articles and should take their time to make sure what they post is accurate and properly communicated. However, some John Doe on a messageboard? If a person structures their sentences and grammar good enough that I know what they are talking about then I could care less about an errant comma or period or misspelled word.

[DetroitFats]

CPavement,
Don't you mean "structures their sentences and grammar WELL enough . . ."? Just kidding ;-)

[Crumbled_pavement]

CPavement,
Don't you mean "structures their sentences and grammar WELL enough . . ."? Just kidding ;-)

Yes, "well" would be a better word to use in that sentence.

[Roq]

Yes, "well" would be a better word to use in that sentence.

........