Controversy over male on female assault at Grosse Pointe North [[video)

[Danny]

Rational thinking goes out the window when white parents see too many black kids at the local school. You know it's true.

I'm not anti-Grosse Pointe. I'm just disgusted with the so-called "decline" of the east side suburbs. The whites are in flight again. When does it ever end?[/COLOR]

I agree, look what happen to Detroit Public Schools. Now thanks to the stupid "School of Choice" Programs. Parents from poor ghettos and failing school districts can sent their kids to successful schools out of their districts.

White folks in America don't want to live in fear coming not just blacks, Hispanics, and Asians, but from Arab Muslim terrorists. They will do everything in their power to defend themselves just like colored minorities have to the right to defend themselves.

As more black folks from Detroit ghetto hoods are moving to Harper Woods, North Richville, middle class white families will move out be the thousands. Wait til you all see what happen to Grosse Pointe Woods in 30 years. White folks in four remaining Richvilles will be up a Berlin Wall like baracade just like they did in Kercheval and Alter Rd.

[MAcc]

Don't know. Some people in the Farms and Park don't even consider the Woods as part of GP. South was the real Grosse Pointe HS because it was the only one for a long time. The Woods is really more like Harper Woods than it ever was like the Farms and Park. Different classes of people.

I didn't know the GP hierarchy was so pronounced. Last month you called the Park, Ghetto Pointe Park, now the Woods is dirt as well. So only the city, Farms, Shores matter? Are they in a certain order? I'm being serious, I thought there were really top notch homes in all of them, except for the bottom of the Park.

I think North High has had a bad rep for at least ten years. I remember everyone of means used to choose South, then they stopped the choice a few years ago. I assume when the choice went away, many family moved or chose privates like Regina and DLS.

[DetroitBoy]

That is funny. Must be tough to acknowledge your poor relations. I remember some pompous ass ,who lived on Belanger of all streets, get this momentary confused look on his face when I told him where I lived. "Oh, you're 'up in the Woods!'"

I believe it. You have to remember that in the 1950s and even into the 1960s people were really rooted in their own neighborhoods and not mobile like today. There was no internet. At most, 3 choices of TV networks. Most women stayed at home and what shopping they had to do, they did locally[[the Village) or they went to Hudson's downtown. My mother's friends were from the neighborhood. Their lives were relatively simple. Going to the hairdresser twice a week was a major outlet as was bridge, shopping, tennis, gossip at the club and volunteer work. The Eastside was a foreign country to Westsiders. People were very insular prior to the social upheaval of the late 1960s. And so it was in the stratified Pointes. Many people resisted and even denied there was such a thing as change. A lot of that is still alive and well today.

[313WX]

This whole "mix" thing gets me. I frequent GP a LOT, and always think to myself that it's one of the most racially mixed scenes I encounter anywhere in the Metro-Detroit area. Maybe I'm just being delusional.

A lot of Detroiters shop in The Village or along Mack [[mainly due to the severe lack of other shopping options) and use Beaumont Hospital...

Otherwise, yeah...you're being pretty delusional...

[DetroitBoy]

I didn't know the GP hierarchy was so pronounced. Last month you called the Park, Ghetto Pointe Park, now the Woods is dirt as well. So only the city, Farms, Shores matter? Are they in a certain order? I'm being serious, I thought there were really top notch homes in all of them, except for the bottom of the Park.

I think North High has had a bad rep for at least ten years. I remember everyone of means used to choose South, then they stopped the choice a few years ago. I assume when the choice went away, many family moved or chose privates like Regina and DLS.

In the days when there was real wealth, the order of snobbery was: Shores, Farms, Park, City and Woods. Times are very different now. Not many reasons for anyone to be snobby.

[Gpwrangler]

It will be in the next 30 years. Wait til all the businesses along Mack Ave north of Moross dissapear, but the neighborhoods will be well kept up. It will be an equivalent to northwest and northeast Detroit ghetto hoods but with fewer white businesses and more black businesses and black folks donning their Travyon Martins walking Mack Ave and Vernier Drive either minding their own businesses or look for someone of something to case the area, rob and shoot.

By 2035 walking down any Grosse Pointes and Grosse Pointe Woods we be like walking in the hood.

Lol too funny.

[Gpwrangler]

A lot of Detroiters shop in The Village or along Mack [[mainly due to the severe lack of other shopping options) and use Beaumont Hospital...

Otherwise, yeah...you're being pretty delusional...

i think a few on here better put down the crack pipe.

[ABetterDetroit]

Is it just me or does this thread seem like a record on skip?

[Gpwrangler]

Is it just me or does this thread seem like a record on skip?

What was the topic again?

[ABetterDetroit]

What was the topic again?

Was it the hookers walking the streets out here in Bloomfield or the good crack you can get on Main in Plymouth? I forget...

[Goose]

What are the social dynamics that make Poupard, which is the highest black attendance, the lowest performing GP school? Why is that specific school, that is alloted the same money per student, has access to the same teaching techniques and resources, and feeds to the same middle school and high school... rank so much lower than the other schools within the same system? Can this be expected to happen to other schools as the socio and racial makeup of the schools change? Is this what people are afraid of?

[MAcc]

What are the social dynamics that make Poupard, which is the highest black attendance, the lowest performing GP school? Why is that specific school, that is alloted the same money per student, has access to the same teaching techniques and resources, and feeds to the same middle school and high school... rank so much lower than the other schools within the same system? Can this be expected to happen to other schools as the socio and racial makeup of the schools change? Is this what people are afraid of?

Has to be white flights faults, right? I mean the white folks prob put all the bad teachers in that school. And how can you expect the test scores to be high when all the white folk take their babies out of there. And how do you expect my babies to learn how to act without all A students to mirror! [[By mirror, I mean kick their ass, distract them, extort them for lunch money)

[Wheels]

Can anyone name an American city where white people moved in and crime went up?

[bailey]

What are the social dynamics that make Poupard, which is the highest black attendance, the lowest performing GP school? Why is that specific school, that is alloted the same money per student, has access to the same teaching techniques and resources, and feeds to the same middle school and high school... rank so much lower than the other schools within the same system? Can this be expected to happen to other schools as the socio and racial makeup of the schools change? Is this what people are afraid of?

Poupard is fed the most from HW, hell it's IN harper woods...and the HW component has become mostly DPS refugees. There is a ton of remedial education going on at all levels where DPS refugees come into the picture. It has nothing to do with "white flight" from GP Woods, and everything to do with a portion of GP Schools becoming defacto school of choice for those fleeing DPS.

What Poupard should illustrate is success in school is more than just throwing money and resources at schools. Parents need to be involved and the household needs to be stable for kids to thrive. I don't think Poupard is the only school to ever see it's scores inversely correlated to the number of those getting food assistance.

[canuck]

Can anyone name an American city where white people moved in and crime went up?

The Purple Gang wants you!

[nain rouge]

Has to be white flights faults, right?

The point is, why do people feel the need to move just because someone else moved in that isn't doing quite as well on certain standardized tests? That's the problem.

No one can deny that blacks in America got a raw deal for centuries. But now because we've passed a few Civil Rights Acts, it's considered a failure of blacks that they didn't immediately equal or surpass their former oppressors. Which is patently ridiculous.

It's no coincidence that the passage of some pivotal Civil Rights Acts in the '60s marked the exodus of whites from many large cities. The government can pass all the laws and programs it wants, but unless the people of this country adopt the spirits of those acts into their hearts, those efforts will continue to fall short. And when history looks back on us, it won't view those failures as an indictment of the government, but of the people.

[nain rouge]

What was the topic again?

The topic essentially asked if GP schools were in decline. I don't think we've made any bold leaps in the issues we've brought up.

[canuck]

Bien fait nain rouge! Tu es un vrai bon diable comme on dit!

[MAcc]

The point is, why do people feel the need to move just because someone else moved in that isn't doing quite as well on certain standardized tests? That's the problem.

The pie, i.e., school funding and resources is not infinite. A deluge of crappy students means efforts directed towards remedial classes and programs, and/or even slowing down regular paced courses so too many of them don't get left behind. The best teachers want to work in the best districts. Remedial courses and character/behavior issues does not make for a prime workplace. Nobody with better options wants to deal with shitty delinquents.

You only get one shot at raising a child. There's no reset button, you want your child in the best environment to become a highly competitive college applicant.

Successful, highly educated two-parent, type A parents [[who are grooming future leaders) don't sit around and wonder if the tide is turning at their school, or if a district will "hold on." They bolt. It's not a racial thing, it's a my kids are preparing to go to UM, Duke, Notre Dame, etc., I'm not going to give some dull kids who don't care about school a chance to latch onto them and bring them down.

[nain rouge]

Translated: See, it's not a racial issue. I just can't stand their test scores. They won't get a drop of MY child's precious financial resources.

[masterblaster]

Again? That suggests that you think it ever stopped?

White 'flight' was never fully white. I lived in a neighborhood where the demographics were changing, and the among the first families to move were the first blacks -- who had 'fled' the inner-city. They moved from the new blacks coming in just as fast as whites.

Flight from crime and poverty is a rational reaction to, well, crime and poverty. People want to live in better 'hoods. They dont want to live where their families are at risk. Being white and having lived through a migration, I can tell you that few cared what color people were -- although some did. Most fled because of crime, some others because of crime, and then there were those who moved because of crime.

If you want to solve 'flight', then solve crime. NYC has led the way in crime fighting. Just watched Bratton on Rose. He agreed that Stop, Frisk, and Question was overused -- but like medicine sometimes needed to be used in a strong dose. It was. It worked, and the NYC population in the worst neighborhoods benefitted. Detroit would do better to stop demonizing the cops for rare problems, but instead celebrating their successes in reducing crime. If crime gets under control, few will care about the color of their neighbors.

Did I say its all about crime.

If its all about crime, and not about race, why did white people start bailing [[in droves) on Southfield and Lathrup Village in the 1980's.

If its all about crime, and not about race, then all but the most exclusive and wealthiest suburbs should have been 10-20 percent black from their inception because middle class blacks would have been fleeing arm-in-arm with the middle class whites. Right? But Detroit's black population only started decreasing in the 1990's, while the white population started leaving in the 1950's. Detroit's white population is only 4% of what is what was in 1950. If you go by the census numbers - flight was about race too - and significantly so.

[nain rouge]

Hear, hear! I can't tell you how many times I've heard/read about North Warren being a steal or a decent place to live, while Southfield is viewed as off limits. Unacceptable!

[masterblaster]

It seems that the Grosse Pointes are at a critical junction. The question is this: are the Grosse Pointes worth saving, or are they disposable as the vast majority of Detroit was deemed. Are Grosse Pointers going to bail and not fight to preserve there unique communities [[excellent housing stock, cute business districts, lakefront parks/beaches, rich history/legacy, etc), or are the people going to do something about it. Can somebody just stand up and fight for once instead of just bailing like Detroitboy is advocating. The Grosse Pointes are too unique to allow them to decline.

[Wesley Mouch]

The point is, why do people feel the need to move just because someone else moved in that isn't doing quite as well on certain standardized tests? That's the problem.

No one can deny that blacks in America got a raw deal for centuries. But now because we've passed a few Civil Rights Acts, it's considered a failure of blacks that they didn't immediately equal or surpass their former oppressors. Which is patently ridiculous.

It's no coincidence that the passage of some pivotal Civil Rights Acts in the '60s marked the exodus of whites from many large cities. The government can pass all the laws and programs it wants, but unless the people of this country adopt the spirits of those acts into their hearts, those efforts will continue to fall short. And when history looks back on us, it won't view those failures as an indictment of the government, but of the people.

I don't see that Civil Rights Acts as a failure, nor do I blame those who were oppressed. But other oppressed groups have managed to do better. It is valid to recognize this [[like step 1 in AA). Then we can as a society work towards doing better. The desire to constantly blame the problem on the slaveholders and their unenlightened descendants only hurts blacks.

As to the exodus, I think you can blame bussing more than anything else. I lived through it. Let me tell you that bussing was the 'straw' that triggered the move. A lot of whites in Detroit neighborhoods were not exactly the privileged children of slaveowners, but were children of immigrants themselves who had been discriminated against [[Irish, Polish, Italian) who were recenlty considered scum. The 'flighters' got a better life through GI Bill, industrial work, etc... and more than anything they wanted their children to become lawyers and doctors, not factory rats. Bussing threatened them sending their kids to inner-city schools -- which by this time had already seen academic challenges. Sure, many of them were racists, too... but again the bussing was the trigger. Not just the color of their neighbors skins.

As to adopting the spirit into their hearts.... I think we are seeing that adoption. White guys cheer black sports heros, white kids emulate black rappers, who doesn't admire Oprah. The world has changed, and continues to change. You can lead a horse... but forcing the horse never works. And people have been and are changing every day. And the screams of racism from black America ring hollow to many middle-class families as they drive their mixed-race daughter to a good school in the suburbs. The sooner we get rid of race-baiters like Jackson & Sharpton, the faster we'll see healing. So do you want healing, or do you want blame. You really can't have both.

[DetroitBoy]

It seems that the Grosse Pointes are at a critical junction. The question is this: are the Grosse Pointes worth saving, or are they disposable as the vast majority of Detroit was deemed. Are Grosse Pointers going to bail and not fight to preserve there unique communities [[excellent housing stock, cute business districts, lakefront parks/beaches, rich history/legacy, etc), or are the people going to do something about it. Can somebody just stand up and fight for once instead of just bailing like Detroitboy is advocating. The Grosse Pointes are too unique to allow them to decline.

I don't ever recall 'advocating' people bail from the area. I commented before this incident and video about crime and what it was doing to the area. In fact, it was a challenge to all to not be apathetic or bail for 42 mile Rd like so many others have done:


In GPW, North HS is also suffering from an influx of students from rental properties in HW who attend the school. A local meeting had to be called with the superintendent to address these concerns with the community. While students recount episodes of out of control behavior in the hallways, the superintendent swore over and over that the school was safe. Some parents in the southern boundary of the school system were calling for a change in the district to allow their children to attend South HS instead. Hopefully, the newly elected members of the school Board can address some of these problems. Why does the GP system have students from HW going to their schools? Perhaps it is time to redistrict and let HW educate all of their community.

No doubt my comments will be criticized by others who refer to it as trolling. It is terrible that we have abandoned any sense or right and wrong behavior such that everything has to boil down to being a racial issue. It seems inconsistent to me that people who claim to be fleeing Detroit due to crime in the neighborhoods and schools find these kind of events acceptable. That home invasions and bank robberies in what was a wonderful community are dismissed with the 'it happens everywhere' mentality.

We can only pray that it doesn't take a string of violent crimes which are common occurrences in Detroit to spill over before people say 'Enough is enough. We won't tolerate it here'.