What is going on at Red Wings arena site?

[ghettopalmetto]

I read the surface parking was going to all be south of I-75... aka the already dead zone. i'm fine with them having it there until there is demand to build actual buildings

But even when that demand manifests, the excuse will be that Olympia needs the lots for arena parking!

If Olympia is good at one thing, it's leveraging enormous, specially-targeted tax subsidies for their own benefit. The development business, not so much.

[rex]

She [[Councilmember Raquel Castaneda-Lopez) asked for the zip codes of Red Wings suite holders, who would use most of the on-site parking.
"I would put that in the 'none of your business' category," said Heapes [[design manager). "But we can give a summary of that."

[mikeg19]

She [[Councilmember Raquel Castaneda-Lopez) asked for the zip codes of Red Wings suite holders, who would use most of the on-site parking.
"I would put that in the 'none of your business' category," said Heapes [[design manager). "But we can give a summary of that."

Maybe I'm a little dense, but WTF does she need to know the zip codes of the suite holders for??? How in any way is that associated with the arena discussion?

[animatedmartian]

Maybe I'm a little dense, but WTF does she need to know the zip codes of the suite holders for??? How in any way is that associated with the arena discussion?

The parking garages are for VIP parking only on game nights. Typically NFL stadiums have that sort of parking [[not that I know if the councilwoman knew that).

[animatedmartian]

There really shouldn't be any debate on this. The fact of the matter is that Ilitch doesn't like taking care of old icky buildings that drain his money. A public park with a huge uninteresting parking garage next to it feels like the least urban thing that could replace a historic structure. At least have a giant TV screen or interesting design on the facade of the garage. Or maybe even extent the residential buildings that front the other parking garage to front both parking garages. Otherwise, that part of the arena district is destined to be a dead zone. Which, if I remember correctly, the way in which this arena is design is supposed to prevent dead zones.

[Mackinaw]

I certainly hope that a garage would get used more than 41 [[plus 2-12 playoff games) nights per year. It should be used for other events at the arena [[presumably it will) and for Tigers baseball.

[mikeg19]

I think Curbed has the best "timeline" of excuses for why the P.A needs to be torn down. Several differing excuses cited.

[ghettopalmetto]

I heard that anyone entering the arena will be subjected to a search, where Olympia Entertainment staff will turn you upside down and shake you until every last cent falls out of your pockets. You know, for security reasons.

[Mackinaw]

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...vote/25710591/

How incredibly priceless and appropriate that the Council wants an ordinance reflecting a commitment to restore the Eddystone, Olympia says no-can-do but you have our word, and Council accordingly votes 6-3 against approving the plan today.

Good for them.

Looks like the Hotel Park Ave. is being forsaken by the council, however, and it will fall to the purview of the Historic District Commission. What's interesting there is whether the Duggan administrator will abide by the HDC on such a high-profile building in the event [[or likelihood) that the HDC denies a demolition permit. With the lower-profile Deck Bar/Historic Bank building on Jefferson @ Alter, Duggan's people recently defied the HDC and issued a permit notwithstanding the HDC's unanimous denial and longstanding fight which including victories in court. Could the Hotel Park Avenue come down to such an intergovernmental struggle? I sure hope not.

[Dan_the_man]

Looks like the Hotel Park Ave. is being forsaken by the council, however, and it will fall to the purview of the Historic District Commission. What's interesting there is whether the Duggan administrator will abide by the HDC on such a high-profile building in the event [[or likelihood) that the HDC denies a demolition permit. With the lower-profile Deck Bar/Historic Bank building on Jefferson @ Alter, Duggan's people recently defied the HDC and issued a permit notwithstanding the HDC's unanimous denial and longstanding fight which including victories in court. Could the Hotel Park Avenue come down to such an intergovernmental struggle? I sure hope not.

I'd be shocked if they HDC didn't deny this. That said, Illitch will probably accidentally swing a wrecking ball into the building deeming it structurally unsound and in need of an emergency demolition or some other crap like they pulled with the Madison Lennox. As much as I want this building saved, I have a feeling that they will find a way to tear it down legal or not.

[emu steve]

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...vote/25710591/

How incredibly priceless and appropriate that the Council wants an ordinance reflecting a commitment to restore the Eddystone, Olympia says no-can-do but you have our word, and Council accordingly votes 6-3 against approving the plan today.

Good for them.

Looks like the Hotel Park Ave. is being forsaken by the council, however, and it will fall to the purview of the Historic District Commission. What's interesting there is whether the Duggan administrator will abide by the HDC on such a high-profile building in the event [[or likelihood) that the HDC denies a demolition permit. With the lower-profile Deck Bar/Historic Bank building on Jefferson @ Alter, Duggan's people recently defied the HDC and issued a permit notwithstanding the HDC's unanimous denial and longstanding fight which including victories in court. Could the Hotel Park Avenue come down to such an intergovernmental struggle? I sure hope not.

IF I'm following you correctly, Duggan has 'the last say'. Correct?

If so, Duggan will get a deal done. He wants this project to get done. I'm not sure what type of 'guarantee' he'd demand, but...

[Dbest]

Olympia consultant John Graves to council: “It’s just a matter of trust, whether you believe the developer on that promise" for Eddystone.

Apparently council is skeptical, rightfully so...

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Olympia consultant John Graves to council: “It’s just a matter of trust, whether you believe the developer on that promise" for Eddystone.

Apparently council is skeptical, rightfully so...

"Olympia can be trusted to follow through on the Eddystone renovations, consultant John Graves told the council"

And you can trust Lucy to hold the football for Charlie Brown. Honestly, this time she's really going to hold it....

"In a written statement Monday, an Ilitch spokesman said the company is committed to the project."

In other words, they are committed to the project; but they don't want to commit to it.

[emu steve]

I've seen this dog and pony show in D.C. [[w. Nationals Park) - and the stadium was not technically finished for opening day 2008 despite tons of overtime, cost overruns, etc.

I'm not sure of all of the problems. I know the Council finally approved it at something like 2 - 3:00 a.m. Sunday morning. I believe their backs were to the wall [[IF they did not approve it then, the Nationals would have to prepare RFK Stadium for 2008 MLB. The start date kept getting moved back.).

[Dan_the_man]

Olympia keeps talking about how they need this approved so they can start construction and they are running out of time, but they are the ones that took three months to revise their zoning change request and then put pressure on council to approve it in a few days without adequate time for them to look it over. They sure know how to play the game if nothing else...

[SpartanDawg]

Olympia keeps talking about how they need this approved so they can start construction and they are running out of time, but they are the ones that took three months to revise their zoning change request and then put pressure on council to approve it in a few days without adequate time for them to look it over. They sure know how to play the game if nothing else...

thing is they can begin excavation.. this rezoning is required for vertical construction only...

actually rumor has it excavation of the ground did begin today around noon. can anyone confirm?

[Danny]

Its good for the city council delay the vote for the Red Wings Arena. Both the Park and Eddystone Hotel can not be town down. Those buildings are once called " Puttin' on the Ritz" 5 star hotel are very historic and its met to be kept up. Another thing is those two historic homes on Cass/Clifford Rd. It has to stay. So Illitch and his greedy private corporations would have to go back the drawing board and figure out to the woo and impress the new city council and how is this new arena be possible to all Metro-Detroiters.

This is kind of like "It's in it for black people." who are still dominate in Detroit.

[401don]

Yeah these guys are going to develop 50 blocks. They can't even develop 5.

[Hypestyles]

there should be contractual guarantees about renovating the hotel site for housing, including affordable housing. There really should have been a CBA for the entire project since this is 58% publicly funded.

[brizee]

there should be contractual guarantees about renovating the hotel site for housing, including affordable housing. There really should have been a CBA for the entire project since this is 58% publicly funded.

Marathon showed you get this stuff LOCKED.

The media in this town is such garbage.

They'll write that a billionaire should be fellatioed on command and call the city council obstructionists.

A year later they'll write how foolish the council was not to get guarantees in writing.

I can't wait for both rags to go bankrupt to see these clowns twist in the "real/business world" they're always banging on about.

[emu steve]

I'm with Tom Walsh on this: If the city wants folks to build, renovate, etc. time to start trusting one another and get things moving. A city proves itself when it minimizes red tape, delays, etc. [[and man, I hate when these common councils in cities can't agree and things drag on and on and folks just get frustrated and the air gets poisoned).

Sometimes folks need to see the 'big picture' and run with it.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...elay/25749763/

[Dbest]

I'm with Tom Walsh on this: If the city wants folks to build, renovate, etc. time to start trusting one another and get things moving. A city proves itself when it minimizes red tape, delays, etc. [[and man, I hate when these common councils in cities can't agree and things drag on and on and folks just get frustrated and the air gets poisoned).

Sometimes folks need to see the 'big picture' and run with it.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...elay/25749763/

They have given Olympia house and home on this project, all they want is an assurance that the building stays. Why is that so hard for them? Show proof that these are really your plans.

This deal sets precedent for future developments in the city. If you like the fabric of old buildings downtown then you should commend what council is doing. This is how real cities operate, not by letting developers tear down anything and everything in their path. That was old Detroit, you know the one operating on a hope and prayer that some development would be a cure all. The mayor has a vision, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Good Cop/Bad Cop scenario going on with the Council/Mayor in regards to their negotiations with Olympia.

Call me crazy but I think Duggan wants the assurance as much as Council...

As for the stadium development,its not going to get cancelled. i could see the Illitich team pulling out the threat card, something like threatening to pull some part of the development they never really intended on doing. illitch is pretty slimy. I can empathize with the critics of the whole development, look at all the promises for Copa that never came to fruition.

IMO The council has every reason to be skepical when the city has already been suckered on promises for the area around Copa.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I'm with Tom Walsh on this: If the city wants folks to build, renovate, etc. time to start trusting one another and get things moving. A city proves itself when it minimizes red tape, delays, etc. [[and man, I hate when these common councils in cities can't agree and things drag on and on and folks just get frustrated and the air gets poisoned).

Sometimes folks need to see the 'big picture' and run with it.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...elay/25749763/

I couldn't disagree more. If Olympia wants to restore the Eddystone as a trade off for tearing down the Park Avenue, then they damn well better actually commit in writing to doing so. A commitment to submit a PROPOSAL to renovate it with no obligation to follow through is totally meaningless. It would be easy to agree to this requirement if they are serious about restoring the Eddystone; if the entire project were to get delayed because of this it speaks volumes about their true intentions.

[animatedmartian]

I'm with Tom Walsh on this: If the city wants folks to build, renovate, etc. time to start trusting one another and get things moving. A city proves itself when it minimizes red tape, delays, etc. [[and man, I hate when these common councils in cities can't agree and things drag on and on and folks just get frustrated and the air gets poisoned).

Sometimes folks need to see the 'big picture' and run with it.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...elay/25749763/

It's Mike Illitch. He's not going anywhere because of some delayed red tape. If this were a developer actually out to preserve and renovate historic structures, the council wouldn't be as scrutinizing which actually seems worse when you think about it. There's plenty of historic properties that have fallen to the wayside because the City didn't hold the developers accountable.

[Scottathew]

I don't think council is crazy. The taxpayers have a lot of skin in the game, it's alright for Ilitch to do the same.