What is going on at Red Wings arena site?

[mikeg19]

I fear that batting 1 for 2 will be good enough for city council to approve the zoning request. The 10am should shed light on the actual reasoning why the Park Ave building can't be saved and costs to renovate the Eddystone. SHould be interesting.

[emu steve]

Discussion of parking at the arena site.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...lans/70434020/

[Mackinaw]

Regardless of whether DHS holds a certain position or not, there are two realities. First, this is not law, but guidelines. Second, the position as applied here and as raised by Olympia is internally inconsistent and hypocritical. The very design of the arena structure, so highly touted by Olympia, includes offices retail and residential ON SITE and surrounding it across the street.

So yeah, they can build new schlock right on top of the arena, but, as to comparable uses in an older building across the street, well, now, that just wouldn't be safe.

The Free Press coverage of parking this morning is scaring the shit out of me. Sounds like "THE DISTRICT" is primarily going to be a surface parking district. I don't understand why Olympia is not providing more structure parking or underground parking on site, or why they aren't being forced to. Alternatively, they should be forced to choose 2 or 3 of their, what, 50 vacant blocks nearby and develop a few mega-garages. Problem solved. If the City council acquiesces to a plan that continues to lock up that whole area for parking rather than neighborhood development, we've got big problems.

I wish the Freep and others would more intelligenty raise and ask questions about surface v. garages/underground. Only a consolidated approach will leave room for the developers to develop actual buildings. This, more than anything, calls into question whether a neighborhood will be built. And the same article that covers this needs to examine Olympia's pattern with Comerica-- again, under-provision of garages and over-provision of surface lots which have made our cityscape look like shit and which have cockblocked any potential development of those sites. It is the SINGLE most unintelligent thing about these stadium developments.

[ghettopalmetto]

So yeah, they can build new schlock right on top of the arena, but, as to comparable uses in an older building across the street, well, now, that just wouldn't be safe.

The Free Press coverage of parking this morning is scaring the shit out of me. Sounds like "THE DISTRICT" is primarily going to be a surface parking district.

I don't know why this is a shock to anyone at all.

From the Freep article:

Doug Kuiper, a spokesman for Ilitch Holdings, said the surface lots will be "high-quality, landscaped, paved surface parking lots to support the Detroit Events Center and businesses in the District Detroit." "Over time, many of these lots will evolve to become new developments that benefit our community," Kuiper said in a statement.

Where have we heard this load of crap before???

Red Wings owners Mike and Marian Ilitch control companies that operate several surface lots around the arena site. The area where surface lots are anticipated to be needed stretches along Woodward Avenue from the Masonic Temple to the north, down to the Grand Circus Park area to the south.


The study estimates more than 6,600 cars will arrive on game nights. Including spaces at several surface lots, there are 4,200 spaces within 1,000 feet of the arena and an additional 20,000 parking spaces within a 10-minute walk of the arena, according to a planning document Olympia Development submitted to the city.

Only in Detroit can you have 20,000 parking spots within a 10-minute walk, yet still be concerned about providing sufficient parking. Boy oh boy, I can't wait to go park my car down by the new hockey arena!!! Don't know if I can handle this much excitement.

[iheartthed]

The Free Press coverage of parking this morning is scaring the shit out of me. Sounds like "THE DISTRICT" is primarily going to be a surface parking district. I don't understand why Olympia is not providing more structure parking or underground parking on site, or why they aren't being forced to. Alternatively, they should be forced to choose 2 or 3 of their, what, 50 vacant blocks nearby and develop a few mega-garages. Problem solved. If the City council acquiesces to a plan that continues to lock up that whole area for parking rather than neighborhood development, we've got big problems.

Why are you surprised by this at all? What incentive does Ilitch have to do anything other than exactly what he wants? The state gave him the money to build the thing with absolutely no resistance. Why does he give a fuck about your irreplaceable architecture?

[restoretheroar]

the fact that we can't believe Olympia when they even mention that parking lots will be paved and landscaped is pathetic in itself. Their reputation is that in question.

[Mackinaw]

Landscaped to boot! That way, we can fit even fewer cars per blocks and jam up the entire district...for parking. A parking district! "EPIC plans", says the Detroit News!

[rbdetsport]

I am very disappointed in the Free Press and Detroit News coverage of this project.. They are not writing as journalists.. All hail the mighty Mike Ilitch, whom no one can doubt because he knows best.. This parking issue is ridiculous. The only issue we have here is that there are too many surface lots and not enough deck parking. All the naysayers were absolutely right, this project is going to look and feel just like Comerica Park. Mediocre at best.

[gvidas]

If you go to the MI DEQ Asbestos Notification search page [[http://www.deq.state.mi.us/asbestos_.../AbSearch.aspx) and look at 110 Sproat [[The Eddystone) and 2643 Park [[The Harbor Light), the notifications are essentially identical. Asbestos to be removed by hand prior to interior demolition as part of a planned renovation.

Maybe deducing anything from such a formulaic document is trying to interpret tea leaves. But by contrast the asbestos notifications for the Brewster highrises [[2913 / 2700 St Antoine) clearly were for demo.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Spending all this money on a new arena, when our roads are the worst in the country.

[iheartthed]

Spending all this money on a new arena, when our roads are the worst in the country.

Roads are the worst in the country, public transit "system" is the worst in the country, and your state's largest city just went through the largest municipal bankruptcy in the nation's history.

[Mackinaw]

Roads are the worst in the country, public transit "system" is the worst in the country, and your state's largest city just went through the largest municipal bankruptcy in the nation's history.

Hard for me to get too worked up about the connection between these realities and the use of state bonds to finance an arena [[and, despite all of my concerns, it's still more than just an arena).

Much easier for me to get worked up when I consider these realities against the heinous I-94 expansion proposal.

Iheartthed, there are two issues here. One, obviously, preservation. Two, as to all of the already-empty land, will we skimp on the structured/underground parking such that all of the empty land remains empty and used for the least constructive purpose: gameday surface parking? Seperate debates but both certainly go to the issue of whether we are laying the igredients for an actual 'district' or just acceding to Olympia's latest bait-and-switch.

[Dan_the_man]

Roads are the worst in the country, public transit "system" is the worst in the country, and your state's largest city just went through the largest municipal bankruptcy in the nation's history.

And none of the money being spent on the arena could be used for any of that, since it is DDA money that has to be spent within DDA boundaries.

[iheartthed]

And none of the money being spent on the arena could be used for any of that, since it is DDA money that has to be spent within DDA boundaries.

The people who decided to give Ilitch the money to use for this arena are the decision makers for public works projects.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

And none of the money being spent on the arena could be used for any of that, since it is DDA money that has to be spent within DDA boundaries.

Yeah....just shows where the city and state's priorities are. I get that private money and bonds are being used for the arena, but should we be subjugated to more tax increases to fix the roads? I mean you have to try to dodge the potholes to get to the game don't you?

[Dan_the_man]

Sounds like Olympia made their presentation, proposing to tear down Hotel Park Ave. and then took off without any public commentary.

[Dan_the_man]

The DDA has been around for a long time. It isn't something new that was created just to fund the arena. I'm all for wealthy team owners paying for their own buildings, but this money can only be used to improve downtown. granted there are probably other better ways that it could be spent, but George Jackson loves his big projects...

[Mackinaw]

The amount of money the state needs, and the manner in which it needs it, is everything-- and the state bonds for the arena district are not nearly the amount of money [[not even close) nor the type of money [[constant cash flow) that the state needs for comprehensive road repair [[and, ps, TRANSIT upgrades). That's what Prop 1 is going to be all about-- flawed as it is, it is to open up a new and appropriate cash flow to fund the roads. The State's funds for the Arena/development are effectively a loan to the city, and frankly I'd rather see a loan to the city than outlays of cash on hand to fix some roads in suburbia.

Real question is, now that the public is a half-investor in this project, how will we ensure that this project-- every aspect thereof-- serves the public interest? And how do we overcome the greedy influence of those completly lacking in vision, i.e. Olympia?

[Dan_the_man]

We don't. Unless City Council sticks to their guns and demands that Olympia does as they ask. The project is too far along and they won't move to a different location, but Council has to be strong on their demands. In the past the community tried to be involved in the process and got Olympia to agree to a neighborhood advisory council, but it is powerless, only able to offer suggestions that Olympia is free to disregard.

[Mackinaw]

City Council needs to realize that it has the leverage to make exactions, and that the exactions need not be elaborate, but as simple as requiring that a few parking garages be built and one more building be spared. The loss of goodwill to Olympia, and, more importantly, the franchise, were they to scuttle to plan at this point would be tremendous. That won't happen.

Some simple words from Duggan, along the lines of-- we need to see this district materialize, so I encourage City Council to insist on terms that will foster neighborhood creation and real spin-off development-- would be so significant right now because they'd embolden the council and would pit a popular mayor [[within city and region) against a developer that wouldn't dare flake out. Guess who would win. ...the City.

[SpartanDawg]

here is an updated rendering Olympia presented today, showing the eddy stone destroyed and a park in it's place. doesn't actually look too bad.

I know we all would've preferred if they saved both but I can live with this.

[rex]

im sorry but the proposed arena is hideous. I realize they're the Red Wings but does the arena have to be that red?

[emu steve]

im sorry but the proposed arena is hideous. I realize they're the Red Wings but does the arena have to be that red?

That is for game nights. Green for St. Patrick's Day, etc.

I assume nothing on many days..

[southen]

that rendering still isnt accurate as it doesnt reflect the surface parking they're hinting at.

[SpartanDawg]

that rendering still isnt accurate as it doesnt reflect the surface parking they're hinting at.

I read the surface parking was going to all be south of I-75... aka the already dead zone. i'm fine with them having it there until there is demand to build actual buildings