What is going on at Red Wings arena site?

[emu steve]

BTW, I remember what maybe 12 years ago.

St. Johns' on their signage had: "Please pray for our Tigers." [[didn't have smart phones back then nor a camera with me. Damn).

[CrashDummy]

this actually really bothers me... whyyyy do they have to do that??? it honestly hurts the walkability of the area to take away a 4-way intersection like that.... putting a building there is phenomenal and i'm very happy about that but come onnnnn that's so unnecessary

I think it means that it would be closed to traffic, which it really doesn't have much of nowadays anyway.

[mikeg19]

It'd be cool if a livecam was setup that chronicled the construction project through its entirety.

[emu steve]

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/spo...ment/70957924/


"The Horizon League men's basketball tournament will be at Joe Louis Arena for two years starting in 2016 and will then move to the new Detroit Events Center, under an agreement announced Thursday between the league and Olympia Entertainment."

I believe the NCAA has announced 2018 first round of 64/32 will be at the new arena.

[emu steve]

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...l#incart_river

[Dbest]

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...ents/27576211/

This story continues to intrigue me. What exactly is Duggan up to? Any way you slice it its starting to smell like old Detroit. It's pathetic, the residents are kicking in the majority of this mega project and the Mayor is still bending over for Olympia. Put the god damn hotel out for bid and see what happens. With all this money being spent by the city it's the least Illitch could do. \

Of course nobody was going to develop either of those hotels until the CITY approved the stadium and was willing to spend buckoo bucks to fix up the area. If the city was spending half the money to fix up the area and strictly create new neighborhoods[[no stadium), those hotels would have been sold FAST.

I'm willing to bet a developer would love to rehab the Park next to the new arena, Olympia just isn't having it... It's not about whats good for the city, just whats good for Olympia.

A bunch of eggs in "mother hen" Olympia's basket..

[Dbest]

"A city council memo circulated today pointed out possible violations of the Michigan Local Historic District Act after Motor City Muckraker revealed last week that Duggan was trying to replace preservationists with people who would approve razing the Hotel Park Avenue."

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2015/0...-appointments/


What a shame, it seemed like The Mayor and council were on the same page up until this Olympia debacle. Underhanded tactics will only create animosity amongst the ranks of city council... This could get messy. Stay tuned..

For the record, I would like to see the 2 hotels stay and the arena project completed. The total lack of vision regarding keeping both Hotels makes me really skeptical of the overall project. Until I read that Olympia has offered up the Park building for redevelopment with no takers, will I ever believe there is no interest.

[emu steve]

"A city council memo circulated today pointed out possible violations of the Michigan Local Historic District Act after Motor City Muckraker revealed last week that Duggan was trying to replace preservationists with people who would approve razing the Hotel Park Avenue."

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2015/0...-appointments/


What a shame, it seemed like The Mayor and council were on the same page up until this Olympia debacle. Underhanded tactics will only create animosity amongst the ranks of city council... This could get messy. Stay tuned..

For the record, I would like to see the 2 hotels stay and the arena project completed. The total lack of vision regarding keeping both Hotels makes me really skeptical of the overall project. Until I read that Olympia has offered up the Park building for redevelopment with no takers, will I ever believe there is no interest.

I think this is like the end of WWII. Apparently some out in the islands didn't know the war ended.

This war is over but the posts [[here) and skirmishes on the ground continue... Perhaps using the Yogism: "It's not over until its over..."

It should be pretty clear that the mayor [[and a lot of big moneyed developers like Gilbert) wants this done...

Folks are stepping up to the plate now that the excavating has begun [[that includes Gilbert in Brush Park - I doubt he'd do it IF the arena wasn't a near certainty to get the necessary approvals. Interesting the Bedrock presser was what a few days or a week or whatever after the council approved the rezoning for the arena).

[Shai_Hulud]

I think this is like the end of WWII. Apparently some out in the islands didn't know the war ended.

I agree, it's sad but Park Avenue was dead awhile ago.

[emu steve]

I agree, it's sad but Park Avenue was dead awhile ago.

I understand the frustrations of many but we need to keep focus on the very impressive redevelopment in the CBD, the arena plans, M-1 rail, what is starting to happen in Brush Park, what could be next at Henry Ford Hospital area, etc.

I just don't see the value of letting the frustration of one building ruin the joy of what has been, is, and will happen along Woodward...

Some glasses are half empty; other are half full.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I agree, it's sad but Park Avenue was dead awhile ago.

Is it any more dead than the Strathmore, for example, that's well on its path to restoration?

[gvidas]

I think the machinations, as reported by Muckraker, reflect pretty poorly on the Duggan administration.

Park Ave hotel may be toast. But I'd really like to see that assessment made by a qualified party who hasn't already decided to remove it. i.e. not just some anonymous armchair building inspectors on the internet, and not someone being paid by the city or Olympia.

The premise of a historic designation is that the building has unique intrinsic value, which the public at large benefits from. Because of this, we've established a few minor hurdles that developers have to jump over. Removing the hurdles because the developer asked for them to be removed them defeats the whole purpose. There is a clear process for them to go about demolishing the hotel: they have to prove that "it is a deterrent to a major improvement program that will be of substantial benefit to the community."

If Olympia absolutely could not construct the arena without demolishing the Park Ave hotel, they wouldn't have started work, or would have stopped by now. So framing the question as "don't let this one ugly building stop the arena development and all the momentum we're getting" is, in my opinion, a misdirection.

As far as I can tell it's just a profit question at this point: Olympia, who stands to make more money with the hotel gone, vs. the city at large, who risks having the process of protecting historic buildings undermined.

[Shai_Hulud]

Is it any more dead than the Strathmore, for example, that's well on its path to restoration?

Yes, because the Park Avenue is owned by Mike Illitch and the Strathmore isn't.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Yes, because the Park Avenue is owned by Mike Illitch and the Strathmore isn't.

I guess I misinterpreted your comment as meaning it could not be saved due to its condition, as opposed to its ownership. An owner hell-bent on the building's destruction.

[Dbest]

Park Ave hotel may be toast. But I'd really like to see that assessment made by a qualified party who hasn't already decided to remove it. i.e. not just some anonymous armchair building inspectors on the internet, and not someone being paid by the city or Olympia.

This seems to be what the commission wants as well. Here's what an article in FREEP said today, it echoes you sentiment.

"Preservationists oppose the demolition, saying Olympia hasn’t made a convincing case that the district plans [[which include the renovation of the Park Avenue’s neighbor, the Hotel Eddystone) shouldn’t include the Park Avenue, too."

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/c...ggan/27674247/




Dan Austin[[Freep) also has a great piece from a year ago on why both of these historic hotels should be saved. He sums up exactly how I feel about why it's advantageous to keep both:

http://archive.freep.com/article/201...rvation-ilitch

[emu steve]

This may seem O/T to this thread, although I doubt it.

Communities, e.g., Oakland, San Diego, and St. Louis were very slow to wise up about the possibility of losing their football teams because of stadium issues and now facing the very real prospects of their teams moving to L.A.

For those not familiar with the stadia in Oakland and San Diego, well historic preservationists wouldn't want to save them [[just like folks in D.C. can't wait to tear down RFK as soon as a new soccer stadium is built). Oakland and San Diego built stadia for their AFL teams in the early sixties and are decrepit. I assume the Oakland stadium is also the worst in MLB.

NOW they are offering stadiums with significant public financing but the 'horse is out of the barn'.

I feel for the fans in those cities facing their loss after over 50 years [[Oakland joined the AFL in 1960 and the Chargers moved from L.A. to S.D. I believe in 1961).

No one would expect the Wings to leave S.E. Michigan, but leaving the city of Detroit or the city leaders' prime desired location would have been a huge hit for the city.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nf...enke/27740853/

[Dbest]

Heres an old picture of The Edystone...

[rb336]

I guess I misinterpreted your comment as meaning it could not be saved due to its condition, as opposed to its ownership. An owner hell-bent on the building's destruction.

Yes, he's the owner. If someone could truly come up with a good business case for renovation beyond "it would be good to save it," I don't think he would turn a deaf ear

[Shai_Hulud]

Yes, he's the owner. If someone could truly come up with a good business case for renovation beyond "it would be good to save it," I don't think he would turn a deaf ear

I don't see how there could be a case for one and not the other when they are so similar.

Unless there is some issue with the tax credits were they can only get money for one of the two. Or, they don't think there's enough demand for both, which wouldn't make sense seeing as how they think there's enough demand to fill everything from Adams to Temple.

I don't think they would bother with the Eddystone if they didn't know that they wouldn't be allowed to get away with demoing both.

[Dbest]

Yes, he's the owner. If someone could truly come up with a good business case for renovation beyond "it would be good to save it," I don't think he would turn a deaf ear

How many developers can devise a plan without first being able to inspect the building?

How many are going to spend the time with "bulldoze" happy Illitch being the owner, and showing no signs of doing anything but executing his trademark move, tearing that shit down? Not to mention, apparently you aren't going to make many friends in the mayors office with a "plan" for The Park Hotel...

But you do agree that if a developer announced tomorrow -in the Press- their willingness for a possible rehab project, that it should be explored? That the building could be an asset?

Has anyone ever asked Illitch/Mayor if there have been inquiries into The Park Hotel since the stadium announcement? I've been wondering this question since the demolition talk began...

[Gistok]

I've been wondering about that question too Dbest....

FYI although the buildings do look like bookends... the Park Ave is actually the larger of the two... originally the Eddystone had 150 or so hotel rooms, the Park Ave. had 250 rooms, so it is the bigger of the two.

As I stated early on in this thread... there will be a "Battle Royale" before this is all through.... and I've been right so far.

Here's a reality check.... anyone here remember the Columbia Street Entertainment project [[while Comerica Park was being built) that was going to be anchored by a Hard Rock Cafe on the corner of Woodward/Columbia?

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Hard+R......-a018941046

I just think that after the arena goes up... that the follow-thru with other developments nearby will go the same way as that announced but never developed plans for Columbia St.

Even the Madison Lenox fiasco..... the Ilitch's promised to build something in it's place within 5 years... or would repay the 700K demolition fund... we all know where that went.

And then there's the GAR Building.... just what stopped the Ilitch's from following thru with the option they had on it for at least a year or two?

And then there's the Life Building over on Park Ave.... anyone else remember the Ilitch announcement about them fixing that place up.... still nothing.

And then there's the Fine Arts Facade? How long are the newly refurbished Broderick Tower and Whitney Building going to have to face that metal framework... nothing has yet been announced for it... [[and some people had the nerve to call Michael Higgins a slumlord!!)

And then there's the United Artists Building/Theatre.... still just sitting there.... mouldering away.... although luckily with a new roof.

And then there's the Blenheim Apartments and Royal Order of the Moose Buildings... do I need to keep going?

I'm not getting my hopes up about anything the Ilitch's say they want to do.... until it get's done....

Skipper's Rule.... to the max....

[emu steve]

Gistok, I have the utmost respect for your knowledge and scholarship but I really wonder about this statement: "As I stated early on in this thread... there will be a "Battle Royale" before this is all through.... and I've been right so far."

To me, it is more of a Congressional-like song and dance then anything else. With Duggan trying to keep this arena project on track, I don't think the outcome is in doubt.

[Dbest]

Gistok, I have the utmost respect for your knowledge and scholarship but I really wonder about this statement: "As I stated early on in this thread... there will be a "Battle Royale" before this is all through.... and I've been right so far."

To me, it is more of a Congressional-like song and dance then anything else. With Duggan trying to keep this arena project on track, I don't think the outcome is in doubt.

What outcome are you referring to? Because the stadium project IS NOT IN DOUBT. I think the "Battle Royale" Gistok is eluding to is regarding the possible demolition of this building.

That's a pretty heavy list of indictments that Gistok posted. He didn't even mention Tiger Stadium. The money illitch got from the $1.00 rake on every ticket in the final season at The Corner, that was to be set aside for future maintenance. We all know how that went.

[emu steve]

[QUOTE=Dbest;479593]What outcome are you referring to? Because the stadium project IS NOT IN DOUBT. I think the "Battle Royale" Gistok is eluding to is regarding the possible demolition of this building. ... QUOTE]

Correct. We are referring to the same thing. Saving that one building is a 'song and dance'. I don't think the outcome is in doubt. It is simply the machinations that the city will [[have to) go through to get to its desired end result.

Ever watch a Rand Paul filibuster?

Instead of a 'Battle Royale' maybe more like Holyfield vs. Romney 'fight' which was fun a little exhibition to watch, kind of a pillow fight.

[Dbest]

[QUOTE=emu steve;479597]

What outcome are you referring to? Because the stadium project IS NOT IN DOUBT. I think the "Battle Royale" Gistok is eluding to is regarding the possible demolition of this building. ... QUOTE]

Correct. We are referring to the same thing. Saving that one building is a 'song and dance'. I don't think the outcome is in doubt. It is simply the machinations that the city will [[have to) go through to get to its desired end result.

Ever watch a Rand Paul filibuster?

Instead of a 'Battle Royale' maybe more like Holyfield vs. Romney 'fight' which was fun a little exhibition to watch, kind of a pillow fight.

The only song and dance is the "billionaire shuffle", you know that one, Illitch shuffles public money while promising much,only to boogie out after the stadium and parking garages are done.

You don't make any argument as to why it should be razed, just make excuses for a billionaire who doesn't want to be 'burdened' with fixing up the building.

On this particular website you are going to have people that want preservation of historic buildings above all else, its why they are here. It's why I visit Detroit as much as I do. Without the old buildings and good people, there wouldn't be much appeal for me. There are also people on the opposite end of the spectrum, cruise in to the stadium for the game and leave town afterward. This is why I feel it should be saved, expose people who just come in for games to Detroit's sweet architecture and make people like me anxious to get down there and enjoy it too.

I don't think you truly understand the magnitude of Detroit's old buildings and their place in the whole rebuilding process of the city. Ive stayed at the Book Cadillac twice and recently the The Crown[[former Pontch). I will be staying in the old fire house when its done. If the Park is returned to a hotel its instantly on my bucket list. I'm ashamed to say I've yet to stay at the Fort Shelby. In due time...

I very rarely hear visitors to the city focus on the sports stadiums when highlighting their trips to the city. Do they play a role? Of course they do. Does Detroit have great sports facilities? It better, it's one of Americas top sports cities.

It's about a balance, one that Illitch doesn't understand as evidenced by the above list from Gistok. Tiger Stadium was the best of both worlds, old architecture and Detroits most storied sports grounds, what did Illitch do? Shit on it... Wash, rinse, repeat....

I love your enthusiasm emusteve, you have kept this thread alive. I hope you don't take my post as condescending. I appreciated your reply.

I do have to ask you though:

If you were Olympia, would you look into the feasibilty of rehabbing the Park hotel or selling it to a developer?