Fight to reclaim goats takes aim at Detroit law

[Willi]

NO cross contamination in a city environment
Absolutely no, stop putting all of us at risk.
Go farm up in Armada or elsewhere

http://www.oie.int/animal-health-in-...diseases-2014/


http://www.oie.int/animal-health-in-...nfluenza/2013/


http://www.un-influenza.org

[Wesley Mouch]

NO cross contamination in a city environment
Absolutely no, stop putting all of us at risk.
Go farm up in Armada or elsewhere...

That's what great about this forum. I'd never thought for a second about cross-contamination between farming and residential occupancies.

I started reading this thread thinking that it was was insane to restrict farming where density is low. But after some reading, I look to our public health officials to make a good science-based decision.

My opinions about this were uninformed.

[Willi]

Just wait till the feral "pet" population frolicks next to the goat, chicken, rabbit, etc --spreading influenza across the city like a plague.
Human Bodies will be dropping from sickness.

"We almost lost Detroit" - is a book that was already written, -- no sequel, trilogy, please

Cross Contamination is real, it is a threat.
People "playing" farmer is dangerous and illegal

[mwilbert]

NO cross contamination in a city environment
Absolutely no, stop putting all of us at risk.
Go farm up in Armada or elsewhere

http://www.oie.int/animal-health-in-...diseases-2014/


http://www.oie.int/animal-health-in-...nfluenza/2013/


http://www.un-influenza.org

This is nonsense. The risks involved here are negligible. I doubt you could find a documented case of flu spreading from a chicken to a person in the US--I tried and I could not. According to the CDC:

"Strains of avian influenza that have been detected in U.S. poultry, including low pathogenic and highly pathogenic; have caused no known human illnesses."

On the other hand, illnesses caused by cats and dogs [[toxoplasmosis, rabies, and tick-borne diseases, for instance) are common.

[sumas]

Just wait till the feral "pet" population frolicks next to the goat, chicken, rabbit, etc --spreading influenza across the city like a plague.
Human Bodies will be dropping from sickness.

"We almost lost Detroit" - is a book that was already written, -- no sequel, trilogy, please

Cross Contamination is real, it is a threat.
People "playing" farmer is dangerous and illegal

I so love your posts! "We Almost Lost Detroit" was about an avoided nuclear reaction blow up.

Of course there was a funded research study/program about how cow farts affect our ozone, maybe you should have referred to that.

Hey, why not refer to the book, "A Nation of Sheep", its about our involvement in Vietnam, but don't let that stop you. Great title for your outrage over urban farming

[Willi]

It is exactly BECAUSE we keep stuff separate by LAW, that the cross contamination is near zero in the USA.

Dimwits abound en masse on the forums

As far as the feral animals,
capture, shoot, cremate, done.
Repeat as needed on a quarterly basis.
Not kidding, deadly serious, do it now please.
City council needs to act, make it happen.

[Honky Tonk]

It is exactly BECAUSE we keep stuff separate by LAW, that the cross contamination is near zero in the USA.

Dimwits abound en masse on the forums

As far as the feral animals,
capture, shoot, cremate, done.
Repeat as needed on a quarterly basis.
Not kidding, deadly serious, do it now please.
City council needs to act, make it happen.

Relax, she's just trying to get your goat.

[Wesley Mouch]

It is exactly BECAUSE we keep stuff separate by LAW, that the cross contamination is near zero in the USA.

Dimwits abound en masse on the forums

As far as the feral animals,
capture, shoot, cremate, done.
Repeat as needed on a quarterly basis.
Not kidding, deadly serious, do it now please.
City council needs to act, make it happen.

I agree with you, for the most part. Do you have any room in your science-based logic that allows some relaxing of these regulations within city limits? Some areas are so rural that it might make sense to allow in some areas. May major cities are starting to allow chickens, I understand -- and I've assumed that they're doing so was based on science, not politics. Thoughts?

[sumas]

Relax, she's just trying to get your goat.

Thats funny. If dimwit was aimed at me, I am even more amused.

I am rather erudite. I take my hats off to so many on the forum who are talented and do border
brilliance. The brain power is so truly amazing it almost relegates me to Willi status. Yech.

[Willi]

Vaccinations, sterile conditions, regulations, inspections, following the regulations, enforcing and handing out fines , Farm Tax on assets, etc
-- slippery slope for HOBBY farmers.

Who pays for the mistakes when it goes wrong
--- 600,000 highly mobile residents in Detroit ?

I'm fine with the STATE saying no way in hell.
Less cost, less influenza, less problems for all.

[sumas]

Here is a post that will delight Willi' Feral dog packs ran through our streets. It wasn't safe to walk. A neighbor shot and killed them. Cops said thank you, one less report to fill out.

I love animals. What our neighbor does is humane in an odd way. We don't have those packs here'

Not trying to start a burb / city fight, but given the city is mostly afro american, a nice car/ truck/ van with white people dumping mostly dogs is pretty common. We all try to collect them and take to shelters. Last batch dumped got hit by cars fleeing the Chysler plant to get to I-75.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

It is exactly BECAUSE we keep stuff separate by LAW, that the cross contamination is near zero in the USA.

Dimwits abound en masse on the forums

As far as the feral animals,
capture, shoot, cremate, done.
Repeat as needed on a quarterly basis.
Not kidding, deadly serious, do it now please.
City council needs to act, make it happen.

I've never seen anyone so terrified of a few "farm" animals. I hope you stay away from the zoo; who knows what deadly horrors are lurking there, right in the midst of civilization.

I'm glad I no longer live in the hills of Oakland, CA. They bring goats in every year to eat the grass off the dried hills. What are they thinking?

[Willi]

Maybe folks should empty their shitpots into the streets so the shit guy can shovel it into the sewers like they did a few 100 years ago as well.
No running water, no electricity, raise animals
Don't pay no utility bills, raise crops.

Evolve backwards into decay

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Maybe folks should empty their shitpots into the streets so the shit guy can shovel it into the sewers like they did a few 100 years ago as well.
No running water, no electricity, raise animals
Don't pay no utility bills, raise crops.

Evolve backwards into decay

That's quite a "slippery slope" that you are sliding down, given that we are talking about perhaps allowing a few backyard chickens and goats. As numerous communities are doing. I've never been much of a fan of "slippery slope" arguments; they just don't hold up under scrutiny. A few chickens and goats really do not lead to factory farming of pigs and cattle in Palmer Park.

There are many reasons for locally sourcing food, especially when there is currently ample land with not a heck of a lot of other uses.

[sumas]

Maybe folks should empty their shitpots into the streets so the shit guy can shovel it into the sewers like they did a few 100 years ago as well.
No running water, no electricity, raise animals
Don't pay no utility bills, raise crops.

Evolve backwards into decay

Uhhh, I think they were called chamber pots.

[RaumVogel]

I think people are getting off the point. The owners could have been cut a break. They tried to take the animal back where they came from, but were chased down and forced to give them up.
On the flip side,I'm on Street view and Riverview street doesn't look like urban prairie.

[sumas]

I think people are getting off the point. The owners could have been cut a break. They tried to take the animal back where they came from, but were chased down and forced to give them up.
On the flip side,I'm on Street view and Riverview street doesn't look like urban prairie.

I must have missed a few posts. My block is definitely urban praire now. One more home gone. Given some posters on DY, I just might consider raising farm animals if only to document and annoy some forumers. My 3 dogs [[all rescue animals) keep us rather busy. Opps there we go, Ste Sumas bragging again.

Honestly, why would people care about a few chickens, or community gardens for that matter. The out spoken hateful don't live here. I do enjoy posts from former residents that left for various reasons but do not denigrate what Detroit was, what it is and what it could be.

[Dexlin]

Willi, why are you so damned dramatic? You took a perfectly good stance, and then went so far beyond that you end up making yourself look utterly foolish.

[Honky Tonk]

It is exactly BECAUSE we keep stuff separate by LAW, that the cross contamination is near zero in the USA.

Dimwits abound en masse on the forums

As far as the feral animals,
capture, shoot, cremate, done.
Repeat as needed on a quarterly basis.
Not kidding, deadly serious, do it now please.
City council needs to act, make it happen.

Were you accosted by a goat as a small child?

[canuck]

Were you accosted by a goat as a small child?

Beware of Santas who sport goatees.

[professorscott]

1. There is no state law stating that you can't have farm animals in cities. The law cited way back on this thread is a Detroit City ordinance. Many cities explicitly allow the keeping of small numbers of certain kinds of farm animals. Keeping a chicken or a goat on your property has exactly the same health risks as keeping a dog, cat or hamster.

2. I agree that the folks at issue here should have known better, but taking a view of it, in a city where cocaine and auto theft are, for all practical purposes, legal, it would have been fairly reasonable to assume that if you kept a few farm animals on your property, every single City employee would have something better to do than to go after you. Whatever City employee thought this was the most important use of their time that day, we can probably do without.

By the way, if any of you are going to argue about what I said about car theft, before you do so please do the following: [[1) find someone who's had a car stolen in Detroit, if you yourself have not; [[2) ask them if the police [[if they bothered to call) made any effort whatsoever to solve the crime. The Detroit police are 0 for 2 for me with car thefts, and I assume my experience is not remarkable.

[MSUguy]

2. I agree that the folks at issue here should have known better, but taking a view of it, in a city where cocaine and auto theft are, for all practical purposes, legal, it would have been fairly reasonable to assume that if you kept a few farm animals on your property, every single City employee would have something better to do than to go after you. Whatever City employee thought this was the most important use of their time that day, we can probably do without.

You mean do without the animal control officers who were responding to an complaint, what should the officers be doing besides I dunno the jobs they were assigned do? As I understand it animal control generally doesn't unless bother with goat,chicken unless their is a complaint. Cocaine and auto theft theft really have nothing do with this, it's not like a couple random patrol officers stopped what they were doing to mess with this couple.

[professorscott]

You mean do without the animal control officers who were responding to an complaint, what should the officers be doing besides I dunno the jobs they were assigned do? As I understand it animal control generally doesn't unless bother with goat,chicken unless their is a complaint. Cocaine and auto theft theft really have nothing do with this, it's not like a couple random patrol officers stopped what they were doing to mess with this couple.

I think you're trying to argue with me but you're really helping me make my point. If the City hasn't got enough police officers to respond to the truly harmful criminal element that has forced hundreds of thousands of people to leave, but has enough animal control officers that it can send someone to enforce a law about people keeping small farm animals on their own property, then I would submit we have more animal control officers than we need and not enough police officers.

Someone repeatedly stealing my cars and breaking into my houses is a detriment to me living in Detroit, and is in fact why I left. I bet I'm not the only one. Someone keeping unusual and not dangerous animals on their own property does not harm me. If the worst thing to happen to me in Detroit had been a neighbor keeping goats, I'd not have left. Detroit needs to get its priorities within a couple light years of sanity.

[bailey]

I think you're trying to argue with me but you're really helping me make my point. If the City hasn't got enough police officers to respond to the truly harmful criminal element that has forced hundreds of thousands of people to leave, but has enough animal control officers that it can send someone to enforce a law about people keeping small farm animals on their own property, then I would submit we have more animal control officers than we need and not enough police officers.

Someone repeatedly stealing my cars and breaking into my houses is a detriment to me living in Detroit, and is in fact why I left. I bet I'm not the only one. Someone keeping unusual and not dangerous animals on their own property does not harm me. If the worst thing to happen to me in Detroit had been a neighbor keeping goats, I'd not have left. Detroit needs to get its priorities within a couple light years of sanity.

While I understand your point and for the most part agree...I mean it is a struggle to come up with things LESS important for the city do deal with than some chickens and goats in the yard of a house in an urban prairie... but, I'm a bit loathe to just say "meh, it's a silly ordinance so let's not enforce it" because that puts us square on that slippery slope of excusing lawless behavior because the cops have "more important things to deal with".

Further, and feel free to call me crazy, but when thinking about places I'd expect to have the ability to set up a small farm complete with livestock unmolested by local government, Detroit [[nor much of the metro area) isn't it...regardless of its "rural feel"

Inspired by the rural feel, the couple got a half-dozen chickens and three goats, hoping to keep the goats as pets in an enclosed area in the backyard. They planned to eat any eggs produced by the chickens.
"I've always wanted animals. I always wanted to be a farmer when I was younger, and I just love goats," said Sky Brown, 34.

If you want to be a farmer, move to Metamora.

If we're going to make this a discussion about Detroit's priorities, the fact that vast areas of the city ARE urban prairies and figuring out what to do about that should be toward the top.

[Willi]

""" Winging-- It """ as a Hobbyist farmer raising animals is not something people should be doing.
Self-Regulation does not work, period.
People don't vaccinate children, pets OR animals unless it is forced upon them for the greater good of the larger population. Cost, regulation, etc !
--When it goes bad, it impacts nearby humans and spreads quickly causing problems for many people, with taxpayers picking up the tab, again.
-- People will be tempted to butcher and sell meat for a profit, all under the table, black market style.
-- It doesn't matter what animal or poultry is considered, leave it alone, stop "playing". Contamination has serious consequences for all.

The state is justified in its position.