Taxes on Growing Gardens

[sumas]

Thank you Willi, many posters agree I am a braggart others enjoy my comments .To each, their own.

From my perspective, I chronicle life as I see it. Even got offered a book deal, kind of a my town perspective. I declined because frankly I do not find myself or life particularly facinating. Working hard to get my Grayhaven History completed. Good Lord, I must be bragging again.

Community gardens are a far reaching bond. You might be surprised at the community spirit it engenders. Our little garden is rather pathetic from a landscape point of view but it focuses on bonding in our community. I enjoy seeing east and west Detroiters coming together in related functions. Particularly harvest feasts. Sorry you don't see the big picture.

For the bulk of my years as Detroit declined, the focus was always downtown and neighborhoods neglected. Gardens are a grassroot effort to relate to community and other communities within our vast boundaries.

You have eyes but do not see.

[canuck]

Willi, why do your ideas of a garden enterprise in the city have to look like a) a refugee camp b) a special ops camp, or c) a car factory on a diet?

[Dan Wesson]

When you see low flying black helicopters over the gardens....

[BankruptcyGuy]

Assuming that someone paid $500 for a vacant lot, taxes should be about $34/year if it is used for agricultural purposes.

[Willi]

I really DO NOT want garden enterprise, on a large scale, or any scale
It's a lost cause from an economic standpoint - but it may lay the blueprint for "other" stuff

I would prefer to see cottage industry, start-up manufacturing, hammer/chisel type stuff.
Many, many things can be made with hand tools, assisted with some power tools, via generator.

Hell - take old dilapidated building and use the wood to make wooden Ice Scrapers
with the letter D spray painted on them, whatever sells , be innovative , in the city.

The reason for the TEMP style building is cost, and if something goes terribly wrong,
they are easily dismantled, moved, sold, reconstructed elsewhere.

If they go right, there is a location, a building to store goods, a place of business,
to conduct business, and become part of the economic engine for the city.

The idea of a mall got many mixed reviews
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...wntown-Detroit

I propose something OTHER than a mall or a garden ........................
http://www.homerun-business.com/cottage_industry.htm

[sumas]

Willi, thank you again for my hearty laugh of the day.

[Willi]

No problem Sumas, I'm sure that advanced master gardener knowledge of yours
comes in handy when the ground freezes 1 to 2 to 3 feet deep here in Michigan, every year.
Lots of revenue off those miniscule gardens for the community.
Cops stop for Cucumbers, Paramedics stop for Peppers, and Fire trucks comes for Fennel ?

Ideas exist all the time, some people act on them, actually build stuff - others do nothing.
Tinkering often leads to something actually usable, and then others want to buy it.
It's not about mortgages on brick/mortar buildings, huge investments -- uh no !

Example - from a well known Do-It-Yourself type publication
http://makezine.com/category/workshop/machining/

[sumas]

No problem Sumas, I'm sure that advanced master gardener knowledge of yours
comes in handy when the ground freezes 1 to 2 to 3 feet deep here in Michigan, every year.
Lots of revenue off those miniscule gardens for the community.
Cops stop for Cucumbers, Paramedics stop for Peppers, and Fire trucks comes for Fennel ?

AS THE LORD is my shepherd I shall not want, for huge laughs, everytime you post.

No one expects most of these little gardens to make any profit. Some do. It has everything to do with pride in community and fellowship, sharing what gets grown and being good neighbors. Clearly you don't get the real spirit of Detroit that resides in neighborhoods through out the city. Problems galore, we see, we act to improve problems in appropriate fashion

Don't ever discount our communities, which of course you do. With your attitude you wouldn't last 5 minutes. My husband and I are disabled, that is not whining, we are accorded every courtesy, everywhere we go . Obviously, you think of Detroit as a hostile territory, it isn't.

Still waiting to see that venture capital of yours that can turn fallow land into profitable businesses.

Please don't show ignorance about gardening as clearly you have no knowledge.

[Willi]

I don't believe in religion , the lord, or you Sumas

I do believe Detroiters would rather get a few bucks in their pocket from stuff they make,
giving them pride, discipline, work ethic, control their destiny, etc., etc.
They just need the opportunity, a catalyst, to get something off the ground.

[sumas]

I don't believe in religion , the lord, or you Sumas

I do believe Detroiters would rather get a few bucks in their pocket from stuff they make,
giving them pride, discipline, work ethic, control their destiny, etc., etc.
They just need the opportunity, a catalyst, to get something off the ground.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! A new nice laugh. Loved that you don't believe in me. Too much fun. I exist, my husband exists, my friends exist, my neighbors exist, my city exists but with a keyboard, you say we don't.

I propone nor tout religious affliations, I have mine, others theirs. Agnostics, no issues, Atheists no issues. Souless people big issues. Hummm!

[Gistok]

Vacant land, grow food. If the city shuts it down, so be it. Grow food when and where you can. Profit from it, pay sales tax. What's the big deal. Grow food wherever you can. People need food.
Grow it. If this is an issue to you, read the other threads on this forum. I can't even believe this is a negative issue in the city of Detroit with all the unused, vacant land in the city. Oh my God, someone's growing vegetables and the city isn't making a profit. WTF.
Anyone remember the 20 acre community garden in L.A. that hundreds of people worked on growing fruits and vegetables for decades. Hard working people that weren't committing crimes or hanging out on street corners. Growing food for the community and their families. The city bulldozed it and now it's still an empty lot. Why not utilize these empty properties until someone wants to utilize them for personal use or profit?
People working growing food, maybe on the edge, but not scrapping, selling drugs or committing crimes against other people. Is it really all that bad?

Hey old guy, Happy New Year...

Yeah I got the same feeling you did on this thread....

It sorta reminds me the reason why one guy was very much against Detroit allowing a Berlin Germany Techno Club owner converting the old decrepit Fisher Body plant up in New Center area. Apparently refurbishing that dying building as a Techno Club will somehow hurt Detroit's chances of getting more businesses into the city, because it removes that property from potentially being rehabbed as a factory hiring many people into job producing decent paying skills..... Oh my!! How shortsighted of the city to consider that!!

Really.... some people have way too much free time on their hands for slippery slope argument type thinking.....

With the thousands upon thousands of still empty parcels... I'm sure a few cabbage patches aren't going to ruin the city's chances for entrepreneurship....

Perhaps we should be thankful we don't have "allotment gardening" like is popular in Europe...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allotment_%28gardening%29

But then again American's NEVER go hungry like they did in Europe in WWII, so our chances of them catching on here are pretty slim....

Gardening is a sure sign of the decline of urban America... and needs to be taxed out of existence!!

[[Sarcasm alert off....)

[Willi]

So use the same CONCEPT of land ownership from gardening for other ventures within the city.

It comes down to zoning

[Gistok]

Willi, apparently you've not been here long enough to know who CUB is?? Mark Covington is a beloved and very highly regarded member of DYES, who has little time to post here anymore.... and there's a reason for that.... he's and his group GEORGIA STREET COMMUNITY COLLECTIVE.

You want more than just gardening Willi? Just check out what his gardening group has done way beyond planting and harvesting.... they have helped many countless people... You want entrepreneurship.... well guess what... even gardening can bring it on....

http://georgiastreetgarden.blogspot.com/

[old guy]

I'll second that Gistok. Great example.

[canuck]

Gistok, the community gardens in Montreal are run by the city and there are 97 of them throughout. I have one on a lot in an alley on the next block over with 30 plots. I thought they were bulldozing it out of existence last fall but they were rehabbing it and put new earth and fences around it. It's about 50 x 200ft and it's nice to see folks mostly immigrants working the land. It's probably one of, if not the smallest in the city. I Even saw a Bangladeshi or Sri Lankan lady pick some weeds off home fences she probably recognized as important plants in her country. Sumas is right when she says that it is all about sharing and community. I think the informal and formal gardens of Detroit are a great advantage for learning and sharing. Not that many cities have the opportunity of land and water resources it has. Plus there are scientific powerhouses in the botanical gardens at Belle Isle and Ann Arbor that can help grow this movement.
http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/p..._schema=PORTAL

[Willi]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again

I'm not in favor of gardening at all.
The "movement" does not put money in pockets
and it does not put money into The City System

Read the thread to see the point I'm making
--- the real revenue is elsewhere ...

[canuck]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again

I'm not in favor of gardening at all.
The "movement" does not put money in pockets
and it does not put money into The City System

Read the thread to see the point I'm making
--- the real revenue is elsewhere ...

You can be against gardening all you want Willi, it won't make a difference. Gardening is going to be around long after the factories and technologies you prefer have disappeared. And if it weren't for gardening, your butt would be ashes. Ashes are good for gardening though. I didn't say asses, but ashes, as in your butt would be ashes or your ass would be ashes. Ah, never mind.

[Willi]

Police, fire, and EMT don't want to be paid in bushels of produce. Neither does anyone else

It is NOT the savior of The City
by any stretch of the imagination

[canuck]

Police, fire, and EMT don't want to be paid in bushels of produce. Neither does anyone else

It is NOT the savior of The City
by any stretch of the imagination

What's imagination?

[professorscott]

Assuming that someone paid $500 for a vacant lot, taxes should be about $34/year if it is used for agricultural purposes.

In response to this: so the risk-free thing is to pay the tax, otherwise in three years you run the risk that the City takes back the land [[slight risk) and runs you off it [[very slight risk) or sells it to someone who develops it, thereby constructively kicking you out [[nonexistent risk in most of the City).

In response to the "this isn't what the City needs" group of posters: what the hell are you thinking? The choice isn't between community gardens and gleaming new factories on those [[mostly residential) lots providing good jobs to tens of thousands of Detroiters. The choice is between community gardens and weed-choked, unmaintained lots. If redevelopment ever comes back to the neighborhoods, the gardens will move around; such things only exist where land is very inexpensive. For now your choice is between cabbage and used hypodermic needles, not cabbage and thriving businesses.

[downtownguy]

^^ Well said, professor.

[Willi]

If it soooooo cheap why not start a real business



File the papers, erect a temp shop, make money
-- all 12 months of the year, no seasonality.

[Dan Wesson]

edited: willi no like hearing about an old man raising veggies in a small town and making money doing it.

Willi no like, my bad.

[Willi]

Really, that's nice. WTF ! ^ do we care, uh no

Detroit runs on money, via business, and residents contributing into the system

Detroit is NOT a small town, in another state.
It needs stuff other than gardens for revenue !

[sumas]

Nothing is better than a Cub hug. Best community garden in the city as it totally relates to his area and that major focus on youth.

Get gone Willi, this is Detroit YES. Your suggestions are useless until you plan to invest. You are so seriously clueless. Maybe I could sell you Mouroun's bridge. Seems you are simpatico with him.

Us Detroiters need your inate wisdom to move forward, NOT likely.

I am 60 yrs old and not into texting, I have zero issues saying, "what the Fuck" , is it politically correct to abbreviate what one wants to say. Or maybe just hide behide those abbreviations. Maybe you can't spell