Tent City?

[Dan Wesson]

Florida is looking pretty good this week...

Indeed! Politics sorta takes a back seat in times like these.

[Honky Tonk]

it's got to be getting a tad uncomfortable out there now with these serious temps coming through.

Beats going to a shelter with too many rules.

[rex]

yea we about to see how strong their resolve is.

IDK why they dont just squat like other homeless. Atleast you can fortify your position a little bit. Salvage some doors or some ply and what not. Protect yourself and your stuff from other people and wild dogs. Doesn't mean you cant pitch tent in a room.

I can totally understand their aversion to a shelter tho. Thats for sure

[belleislerunner]

I'm curious if the cops will move soon to kick these people out.

If one were to die, freeze, I think every person on this board who is favor of "tent city" would have blood on their hands. A guy died in Pontiac two weeks ago and it was 15.

It's cool to sleep outside when it's 30 - it's negligent homicide when this cold.

They're refusing to go to shelters - lock them up or ship them to Florida.

[rex]

Those in favor of tent city would have blood on their hands?
If they want to sleep outside thats their business. Not mine, not yours.

[sumas]

Frankly I am disapointed that what's going on there is not what they professed.

I totally continue to support the fact that the homeless shelters are mostly deplorable. If folks want to crab about wasted tax dollars, please contact the state and leave me out. Need is great but given the info I now know. I can't support them.

If DetBill wants to pm me, I have info that can assist/expediete a quicker removal.

I am saddened I got taken in by professional medicants. Does not change my commitment to social justice.

To use an old beat up phrase, what a bummer!

[G-DDT]

Except that most of the homeless controversy, the draconian legal proposals, and the fight against the homeless take place in the southeast part of the state which is the most Democratic. Broward County [[Ft Llauderdale) has nine commissioners and one is a Republican. The last county-wide office holder that was Republican lost in 2912. Fort Lauderdale itself has a Democratic mayor and sold Democrat commissioners. There are only a few pockets of Republican voters in the whole area.

You may be forgetting Miami-Dade. It is there that a Trojan Horse "Democrat" by the name of Ron Book claims his laws are helping the poor. This becomes one of those we would only be able to cut through the haze of hype to know what was really transpiring if we lived there [[I met many Central State, PA folks who said the Jerry Sandusky thing had been going on for a long time; in fact, a whistleblower had been found suspiciously in a car near some creek from a supposed suicide.). Many folks have criticized this man for hating the homeless, having illegal billboards around town, and lobbying Republican parties.

[Dan Wesson]

Frankly I am disapointed that what's going on there is not what they professed.

I totally continue to support the fact that the homeless shelters are mostly deplorable. If folks want to crab about wasted tax dollars, please contact the state and leave me out. Need is great but given the info I now know. I can't support them.

If DetBill wants to pm me, I have info that can assist/expediete a quicker removal.

I am saddened I got taken in by professional medicants. Does not change my commitment to social justice.

To use an old beat up phrase, what a bummer!

Had to look that one up Su, mendicants [[beggars). Did you expect anything else?

[G-DDT]

That might work for the transient homeless, but not the chronically homeless, where a majority are either mentally ill and/or drug or alcohol dependent. A lot of these people would be unable to hold down a regular job even if offered one.

There was that story that got national headlines a while back from NYC. A homeless man was sitting on the sidewalk, barefoot, in freezing temperatures in November. An NYPD officer noticed it and went into a store and bought a $100 pair of boots with his own money and gave it to the man. And his act of generosity made national news headlines. But as it turns out, the man wasn't homeless at all. He was an Army veteran and had an apartment that was paid for by his government benefits. But he never stayed there, he preferred the streets. And he had shoes, he just chose not to wear them. In that situation, no amount of social welfare or wealth redistribution was going to fix this guy's problems. He didn't need shoes, he didn't need a roof over his head, he didn't need a handout or money or help finding a job. It's doubtful he would have been able to hold down a job. He needed mental health care.

And even if there were ample money and resources to provide mental health care to everyone who needed it, there's the question of to what extent can society FORCE people to undergo health treatment against their will. Do we institutionalize hundreds of thousands if not millions of people for their own good? Medicate them against their will? Can we force substance abusers to undergo detox and counseling even if they don't want to?

First of all, I agree with the last paragraph. However, I think if anyone here has a right to give some proper perspective on the manner [[and pardon my unhumble boasts), it would be someone with experience in the area. You spent way too much time over-examining one example of the "undeserving" to justify a compassionateless pogrom of not helping the many, many deserving.
I have really squinted my mind on the issue. I can safely quantify and "guesstimate" [[jeesh, did I say that?) from my travels and experience, that 50% of the homeless are substance abusers, whether mental illness plays a part or not, 35% are just mentally ill and drugs play no part of it, and 15% are folks who just got hit with too many bad situations at once, or made one bad move [[ie. like a bad relationship with a rotten partner) and kept paying for it, or even possibly, they started speaking up about aspects that were not right and just, and by odd circumstance, they are suddenly being disenfranchised, shut-out, beared down upon, harassed, or red-flagged by various sources [[I've heard too many stories of such unprecedented and inexplicable swift changes of fortune that stemmed from such whistleblowing).
Even if the number were 2%, we cannot have a system that bears on those who shouldn't be lumped in with the rest. Man is flawed. No matter how many persons work on a program with checks, balances, and revisions, any of man's creations will be flawed, and it will always be that rare example [[usually some person under intricate and extenuating circumstances) God [[who wishes to remind us anything is possible) throws into the works to test, prove, or gum them up. Some of us have been just that: one constant victim from one hideous system man has concocted to another, all the way down the line. Some of us were just not prepared, and by the time the situation sat on top of us, we didn't know where to go, or we looked too ugly or too stressed and flustered in the scrutinous eyes [[you'd be surprised by just how much of a flimsy thing like charisma or one's superficial appearance can make a difference when matters are weighed by a social worker or those who hold your fate in their hands) of those who could best benefit us.
The strange axiomatic formula exists: those best capable and fit, just simply don't have the hear or drive to do so. Those that do have the willing heart to do so, just don't have the time, money, resources, or remaining patience [[all stretched too thin) to physically do so-they usually are those that struggled themselves or are currently struggling.
All of you who criticize these matters live in either live in cushy situations or have insulated themselves quite well in very filtered perspectives with stale premises you fundamentally lean on like crutches. Who of you is brave enough to handle the irresolve or doubt [[or even less, self-doubt) that comes from suspending your conclusions and pitching yourself in grey, murky areas, pacing the floor sleeplessly, stretching past your one-inch thoughts, to either go full circle to a better fortified resolve of your original convictions, or better still, find with astonishment that you may've been wrong and will humbly and wisely accept the reproof that now confronts you? That is if you are any thorough and genuine lover of the truth.
I, myself, didn't just go through one or two life-changing "mutations". It keeps happening. Yet, it always seems to be certain thick-necked supporters of certain degrees of a more conservative ideology who just simply can't bring themselves one brave inch towards the edge of uncertainty in any given matter. To best quote R. Crumb's saddly-fated brother: "How perfectly G-d*amned delightful it all is to be sure." [[Bad source, but then again, Robert shouldn't have allowed cameras to be stuck in his family's business, no matter how degenerated they were-just ask his sisters-yes, he had sisters-who weren't even existent with the film made.).

[G-DDT]

I leave the personal aiding of the homeless at the discretion of the giver. I feel sorry for those going though some existential crisis or on some holiness kick who think they have to give away all of their possessions [[actually Zacchaeus-the short guy in the sycamore tree who promised to feed Jesus-only promised Jesus he would give up half his stuff, and St. Paul asked that we give to what we have not to what we don't have-that is to say, don't let someone's want be a burden on one's need). That's why it's better to give clothes or food away. I never panhandled-not once. Yet, God saw fit to supply my needs plus some, and I'm not one of those prosperity-types who treat God like a cosmic vending machine.
Support larger more professional time-honored organizations that will do the bigger aspect of helping. I have more I can say [[as you all very well know), but I am caught up in other matters [[like helping others) than feeding a bunch of "bumhating" trolls.

[kanfar]

Frankly I am disapointed that what's going on there is not what they professed.

I totally continue to support the fact that the homeless shelters are mostly deplorable. If folks want to crab about wasted tax dollars, please contact the state and leave me out. Need is great but given the info I now know. I can't support them.

If DetBill wants to pm me, I have info that can assist/expediete a quicker removal.

I am saddened I got taken in by professional medicants. Does not change my commitment to social justice.

To use an old beat up phrase, what a bummer!

I enjoy your posts and the many things you share in some detail. I may or may not agree with what you say all the time, but it always provides me with food for thought. I am also impressed on this topic you were "big" enough to say you were wrong in what you thought was going on. Thus, I am a tad surprised that you have chosen not to share whatever negatives/detail you discovered regarding the the tent city group of folks. I'm sure it would be of interest to many of us and may also provide information that would allow others to not be mislead in similar situations.

[Dumpling]

Didache Chap. 12 [[Chapter XII) likely describes Sumas' experience.

http://www.thedidache.com/

"When you have tested him you shall know him"

[G-DDT]

Two things: first of all, when I cite examples, I do my best to throw out an impressively compiled "laundry list" of them, and because I'm not so convinced I've achieved resolve on some matters [[because things, for the most part, are not always black & white-BUT, than again, there is a threat with taking ambiguism to extremes), I will throw a few aspects from "the other side' to weigh out things. I don't like taking one strawman example and blow it up to fortify my position. This is how folks develop knee-jerk thought formulations towards anything [["My friend's brother's neighbor's car got broken into going to the casino in Detroit, therefor I will never go into the city again"-can't tell you how many times I've heard that). If I wanted to I could cite all the negative experiences I've had with Vets or even folks of varying lifestyles, but we would know that to be a faulty reaction. Or at least I'd hope we know better.
Second, the way this country runs things... Yes. Once you are put in a position like homelessness, self-empowerment becomes a very rare thing indeed. You can be the most law-abiding, God-fearing individual who jumps through every hoop, and you will see some real God-awful things transpire with the folks who run the systems that hold your life in sway. I've always said when you are poor, there is always a ceiling [[sometimes it's a very low 2 foot high one), but there is never a floor. That is to say, it is a never-ending chasm that can get worse and worse, and the slight precipice or platform you may have some kind of footing on-even that can give way as well.
Once again, I invite folks to take the homeless challenge. You start with nothing as you try to establish the arduous task of finding work [[that includes flash-drives for your impressive resume which you will need to find work-but than again, maybe some "bleeding heart" facility that troubles itself to help the poor like Urban League or some other tax-payer funded Job Readiness Training program will supply you with one)-honest work-places that won't rob you of your pay [[as it has happened to me with many-even most recently over-the-table taxable jobs). I guarantee you something: it will take you more than a month, maybe two or three to do so. I aced four different Job Readiness Training courses [[they all have a different way for criticizing your resume, until you've gone into a complete circle. After all, if you did it right the first time around, it would only deflate their self-important demand or position for being there). So, what will you do to stay stable and sane in the meantime? As for me, when I was in Boston, I worked at over four different charity facilities and printed-out [[thank God the Cambridge library was rich enough to give you free ten pages of copies each day) my own custom compiled "resource sheets" of information to hand out to the other poor [[not easier in Michigan, seeing as some of the information is antiquated, outdated, and some facilities compete with others-that is, many times n all of my travels, I've seen facilities-including the Salvation Army-just happen to omit references to any local and effective Catholics charities operating nearby in the area,

[Zacha341]

Compelling points. Can someone say hypothermia? I refrained from responding to this thread, but I think that the cold is the ultimately factor on deciding to get indoors if all possible.

This weather is DEADLY. Period. The body starts to shut down, blood flow slows, cognitive faculties dim, the lungs are damaged and frost bite is a factor!

This is Michigan where weather can kill - this needs to end.

Toilet paper and a meal here and there is not going to help as the temps drop lower still; for longer stretches over January and February.

It's an old, and 'cyclical' story weatherwise: Michigan winter.

They must get into some form of shelter beyond nylon fabric!!

If one were to die, freeze, I think every person on this board who is favor of "tent city" would have blood on their hands. A guy died in Pontiac two weeks ago and it was 15.

It's cool to sleep outside when it's 30 - it's negligent homicide when this cold....

[sumas]

Can someone say hypothermia? I refrained from responding to this thread, but I think that the cold is the ultimately factor on deciding to get indoors if all possible.

This weather is DEADLY. Period. The body starts to shut down, blood flow slows, cognitive faculties dim, the lungs are damaged and frost bite is a factor!

This is Michigan where weather can kill - this needs to end.

Toilet paper and a meal here and there is not going to help as the temps drop lower still; for longer stretches over January and February.

It's an old story: Michigan winter!!! They must get into some form of shelter beyond nylon fabric!!

You have a kind heart. The police and social agencies do extend their resources to transport known homeless and homeless communities to warming shelters and shelters. some choose not to go.

I have a nice warm house, needed to run five errands and based on weather, we narrowed that list to one stop. Must do things. One was salt for our steps. Always start the season with a laid in stock, already gone. Slipped and slided our way out the door and down many steps. Mission accomplished

[Zacha341]

^^^ I almost slipped this am on my steps and getting into my car! Lovely 'image' that made...... I don't claim to know what to do outside of 'knowing' the person down on it -- facing being outdoors. We've allowed people we've KNOWN to stay with us short term in that situation, twice. Short-term was the rule! Strict. And it worked out -- the individuals got back on their feet.

My furnace was out for a two night stint in below 18 degree temps. It was mind-boggling. You learn how unforgiving cold is and I was in a house with the benefit or electric radiators, blankets and walls to hold the heat. I think this fabric tent city will have be disbanded while the weather is this deadly cold.

[sumas]

I enjoy your posts and the many things you share in some detail. I may or may not agree with what you say all the time, but it always provides me with food for thought. I am also impressed on this topic you were "big" enough to say you were wrong in what you thought was going on. Thus, I am a tad surprised that you have chosen not to share whatever negatives/detail you discovered regarding the the tent city group of folks. I'm sure it would be of interest to many of us and may also provide information that would allow others to not be mislead in similar situations.

I see that you are new to posting. Based on what you said you will be a valued poster. It is not a requirement to agree with people, just interesting discourse. Some forumers opinions never jive with mine. Yet I deeply respect them. Civil discourse and yes, I learn much too from opposing opinions.

Frankly I haven't shared my thoughts and experience with the tent city because I am embarassed that I believed the snow job given. No pun intended. Maybe tomorrow.

Not Catholic but maybe I should get the medallion for the patron saint of lost causes.

My faith in humanitarian issues is not remotely shattered. Sumas

[sumas]

^^^ I almost slipped this am on my steps and getting into my car! Lovely 'image' that made...... I don't claim to know what to do outside of 'knowing' the person down on it -- facing being outdoors. We've allowed people we've KNOWN to stay with us short term in that situation, twice. Short-term was the rule! Strict. And it worked out -- the individuals got back on their feet.

My furnace was out for a two night stint in below 18 degree temps. It was mind-boggling. You learn how unforgiving cold is and I was in a house with the benefit or electric radiators, blankets and walls to hold the heat. I think this fabric tent city will have be disbanded while the weather is this deadly cold.

I know what it is like to be stubborn. A rental flat we had in GPP had a furnace croak, it took a few days to replace, the landlord, bless her heart wanted us to come stay with her. We declined, the weather was like we are seeing this week. Sent our kids to Grandmas house. Must be some territorial instinct in us all. Protect property or some such nonsense.

Boy were we cold.

At least on the positive side, my husband and I huddled under volumes of blankets in front of the fireplace.A reconnect of sorts. In its own way, as a past memory, it was charming. Wouldn't do that again, we were much younger. I am soooo not camping material.

[Vic01]

Another story in the news...

Stephon Charles Jones, the “mayor” of the encampment said he's going to the city-county building seeking the ear of whomever will listen in the hope of procuring a grant to fix a nearby building that was once a job employment site.

“I am willing to stand up and say that it is time for the city to stand up and, instead of pushing people away, give them a place where they can stay or give them a building, which can become nonprofit,” he said. “The homeless can work on the building, keep it up and at the same time earn a paycheck.”

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...city/21426473/

[Honky Tonk]

Another story in the news...

Stephon Charles Jones, the “mayor” of the encampment said he's going to the city-county building seeking the ear of whomever will listen in the hope of procuring a grant to fix a nearby building that was once a job employment site.

“I am willing to stand up and say that it is time for the city to stand up and, instead of pushing people away, give them a place where they can stay or give them a building, which can become nonprofit,” he said. “The homeless can work on the building, keep it up and at the same time earn a paycheck.”

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...city/21426473/

Well, "The Mayor" must have some serious funding to back up his plan. If I were him, I'd set up meetings with Gilbert and Ilitch too, you never know. If "The Mayor" does pull it off, his motto could be "No Rules, Just Right". Gimme, gimme, gimme, those honky tonk blues.

[aj3647]

Frankly I haven't shared my thoughts and experience with the tent city because I am embarassed that I believed the snow job given. No pun intended. Maybe tomorrow.

But you were so quick earlier in the thread to blindly trumpet their cause [[without having all the facts yourself) and so quick to denounce anyone who wasn't 100% on board with the Tent City idea. Now you won't reveal information which might help others avoid the same mistake you made becuase it makes you look foolish?

[Zacha341]

I drove by the Tent City around 5:55 PM yesterday along Jefferson, and Lafayette which border the groupings and noticed two police squad cars along Jefferson, and one on Lafayette as I drove around the block. Two officers were talking to someone from the group. I could see they had a small fire going perhaps in a grill of sort? Not sure what the interaction was about - but it didn't appear to be disruptive.

It was miserable hypothermia-inducing cold last night, again. And as I said before withstanding politics Michigan winter can kill, and I'm concerned about the survival factor with just sheets of nylon between them and sustained negative wind-chill zero temps at this point.

[sumas]

I enjoy your posts and the many things you share in some detail. I may or may not agree with what you say all the time, but it always provides me with food for thought. I am also impressed on this topic you were "big" enough to say you were wrong in what you thought was going on. Thus, I am a tad surprised that you have chosen not to share whatever negatives/detail you discovered regarding the the tent city group of folks. I'm sure it would be of interest to many of us and may also provide information that would allow others to not be mislead in similar situations.

If you have been reading past threads you would know that I frequently get attacked for "boasting" about good deeds. Hence my quiet on what I now know.

Well here goes. We made a trip bringing food, always asked in advance what they actually needed. Requests granted were lighter fluid, wood matches, blankets,pillows, cards, books, candles, sterno,batteries to name a few. Made a date to bring their " leadership" to my home for a great meal, warmth, a shower if need, bought extra laundry soap if the ladies wanted to wash clothes and to discuss options for acceptable housing.

The "leadership" Mayor, secretary, backbone, Mary Jo and LaMisha after acccepting our offer and a date/time for pick up, when we arrived at appointed date and time they declined to come. A few others did and boy did we get an earful. Secretary and backbone by the way have shelter. One a home, one an apartment. The pickings are so good they hang out daily to get first to kind hearted people giving perceived needs and money.

I am going to split my post as I too have to get a few things done and posts time out and comments lost.

[Dan Wesson]

The "leadership" Mayor, secretary, backbone, Mary Jo and LaMisha after acccepting our offer and a date/time for pick up, when we arrived at appointed date and time they declined to come. A few others did and boy did we get an earful. Secretary and backbone by the way have shelter. One a home, one an apartment. The pickings are so good they hang out daily to get first to kind hearted people giving perceived needs and money.





Hmmmmm.... that gives me an idea!

Professional mendicant!!

[Honky Tonk]

The "leadership" Mayor, secretary, backbone, Mary Jo and LaMisha after acccepting our offer and a date/time for pick up, when we arrived at appointed date and time they declined to come. A few others did and boy did we get an earful. Secretary and backbone by the way have shelter. One a home, one an apartment. The pickings are so good they hang out daily to get first to kind hearted people giving perceived needs and money.





Hmmmmm.... that gives me an idea!

Professional mendicant!!

Holy Hoot, Wesson!