Little Caesars to Build 8 Story Downtown HQ

**hybridy** · June-22-16, 07:40 PM

The faux historicist design went away per owner direction. Has to be taken up with Chris illitch

**mkd** · June-22-16, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

The faux historicist design went away per owner direction. Has to be taken up with Chris illitch

Maybe we'll see a less historicist new design for the Mike Ilitch School of Business as well.

**Rock N Rye** · June-23-16, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by mkd

Maybe we'll see a less historicist new design for the Mike Ilitch School of Business as well.

Like this?

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · June-23-16, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by hybridy

The faux historicist design went away per owner direction. Has to be taken up with Chris illitch

Isn't a lot of the 1920's architecture that everyone waxes poetic about also simply an earlier and well done "faux historicist" design?

**archfan** · June-23-16, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Isn't a lot of the 1920's architecture that everyone waxes poetic about also simply an earlier and well done "faux historicist" design?

Some, but not all. The art deco skyscrapers - like the Penobscot, Guardian and Stott buildings - were built in a new style that tried to be appropriate for the new scale of a skyscraper. Trying to graft older styles on that big a building made it look a little silly, like the Book Tower.

Not that we aren't fond of the Book Tower, but it's kind of like your great aunt who insisted on dressing like a teenager from 1960, even though she's 250 pounds - good style for its time, but not size appropriate.

**Zads07** · June-22-16, 09:16 AM

Absolutely no information on the Blenheim Building on the Park Ave. side of this block. It's not on the National Register of Historic Places, nor is it on the Park Ave. Historic District list, which probably means it will be demolished, but at least say something about the building and the future of it.

According to Loveland, it's owned by Blenheim LLC and built in 1905.

**downtownguy** · June-22-16, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Zads07

Absolutely no information on the Blenheim Building on the Park Ave. side of this block. It's not on the National Register of Historic Places, nor is it on the Park Ave. Historic District list, which probably means it will be demolished, but at least say something about the building and the future of it.

According to Loveland, it's owned by Blenheim LLC and built in 1905.

Out of sight, out of mind. Why did you have to bring that up?

But, it's forgivable because they are such great historic preservationists. Forget about the Ilitch destroyed Varney Apartments and Madison-Lenox Hotel, or the maimed Fine Arts Building. This is progress!

**bust** · June-22-16, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by southen

I thought the faux historic design above was a pretty hokey attempt at honoring the theaters around it, especially with the glowing pucks and Little Caesar statue. We need to preserve what we have in the city in terms of historic architecture, but we need to push the envelope with modern architecture as well. Continually replicating the past isn't what modern city's do and it isnt what gave Detroit the architecture we all appreciate today. Everyone celebrates our art deco structures but those were a departure at the time. Same can be said for our mid century buildings that are often celebrated.

As for the building I like the massing and the facade facing Woodward. I wish they didn't make such a big deal of the "pizza shaped" glass and let people discover that subtle nod on their own. Im not a huge fan of the top with the "car port" but overall it is a nice design and I am pleasantly surprised given the Disney-esque quality of their previous rendering.

I copied that quote from the other thread because I totally agree. We need to be open minded to the formal possibilities inherent in the architectural materials and methods contemporary today. That's how we can extract the best value from them. Not just in savings but in stylistic opportunity. Let's build an honest 21st century building and not pretend it's still the horse and buggy days. And let's build spaces for today's purposes, not yesterday's. I'm not in love the new design but I do like it, certainly better than the previous proposal.

Formal considerations aside, what's most important about architecture is how it interacts with the people who use it and shapes the space around it. I'm glad they're thinking about building a workplace conducive for employees. And I love their promise of street-level retail. Adding some commercial activity to draw more people to the area would bring vibrance to the neighborhood beyond what you get now from a few hundred employees and intermittent event crowds. I'd see that as a big plus.

Whether it works or not will depend almost entirely on its execution. I appreciate the elegance of subtlety, not extravagance. But subtlety does not mean skimping on materials, detail, and engineering quality. If anything it makes them more important. And regarding the street-level retail, let's hope it's not just a sports memorabilia store and a pizza restaurant. Of course what goes in there will have a lot to do with what will succeed.

My hope for this neighborhood is that it becomes much more well-rounded than it is today. Having so many event venues isn't really conducive to that. But at least it can become a more well-rounded entertainment district that attracts people besides when there are events at the theatres or on game day.

Of course the best way to do that would be for the Ilitches to unshutter all the vacant properties they own directly behind the theater. Empty they're a depressing weight on the vicinity. I wish there were a way to force the Ilitches to step up and renovate them, or sell them at a reasonable price to someone who will. They're ripe with opportunity.

And since this is the Ilitches, let's hope the new headquarters is built at all. Like so many others have said, they have a history of announcing plans that never materialize. But since it's for their own benefit, I'm optimistic it will.

**emu steve** · June-22-16, 09:19 AM

Not sure where this comment [[it is a post I borrowed from a sports forum) about Cleveland's experience with their renaissance in the area around Quicken Loans Arena fits, but I'll put it here..

"Have any of you been to Downtown Cleveland lately?

Downtown Cleveland is booming. While the Greater Cleveland area has shrunk massively in population over the last two decades [[and beyond), the last decade for Downtown Cleveland has been incredible. Not sure what the population is up to now, I think it is like 15k immediately in Downtown and that doesn't count the neighborhoods immediately around Downtown [[trendy neighborhoods like Tremont and Ohio City or University Circle)
More than anywhere, this renaissance is evident in the area immediately surrounding Quicken Loans Arena."

**1953** · June-22-16, 09:25 AM

Figures - the second comment on this thread lauded the proposed design, so that's what they changed. The new design isn't terrible, but the original was better.

1953

**Detroit** · June-23-16, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by 1953

Figures - the second comment on this thread lauded the proposed design, so that's what they changed. The new design isn't terrible, but the original was better.

1953

I agree. Unfortunately they decided that the building was too small and they have had to add floors which made it taller than the Fox which threw off carrying over the Fox look.

**Gistok** · June-24-16, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Detroit

I agree. Unfortunately they decided that the building was too small and they have had to add floors which made it taller than the Fox which threw off carrying over the Fox look.

Yeah... that is too bad. And also too bad is that these same genius's couldn't figure out a way to just expand into the Detroit Life Building.... right behind the Fox, instead of making this building larger. But that would involve rehab.... something that the Ilitch's seem to have a very difficult time with.

http://historicdetroit.org/galleries...ng-old-photos/

**Wesley Mouch** · June-24-16, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Yeah... that is too bad. And also too bad is that these same genius's couldn't figure out a way to just expand into the Detroit Life Building.... right behind the Fox, instead of making this building larger. But that would involve rehab.... something that the Ilitch's seem to have a very difficult time with.

http://historicdetroit.org/galleries...ng-old-photos/

Fox Building = +/- 100,000 s.f.
Detroit Life = +/- 35,000 s.f.
New Building [[in one article) +/- 250,000 s.f.

Detroit Life is 1/2 short city block wide, and less than 50' deep at best. DL these days would be best as condos who don't mind rock and roll trucks in their back yard. Nowhere near big enough for Ilitch's needs.

But the argument that more floors doomed the fake-historic facade design.... absurd. My guess is that it was destroyed by the SmithGroup architects who likely hated the idea of Cranes old designs on their masterpiece. Architects [[and I've worked with many) have huge egos and strong opinions on design. They want to create new, not recycle old. They are the likely suspects for torpedo launching here. One could easily have stepped the upper floors back 20' with little loss of efficiency. Somebody wanted their triangle glitz.

**DetBill** · June-22-16, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Not sure where this comment [[it is a post I borrowed from a sports forum) about Cleveland's experience with their renaissance in the area around Quicken Loans Arena fits, but I'll put it here..

"Have any of you been to Downtown Cleveland lately?

Downtown Cleveland is booming. While the Greater Cleveland area has shrunk massively in population over the last two decades [[and beyond), the last decade for Downtown Cleveland has been incredible. Not sure what the population is up to now, I think it is like 15k immediately in Downtown and that doesn't count the neighborhoods immediately around Downtown [[trendy neighborhoods like Tremont and Ohio City or University Circle)
More than anywhere, this renaissance is evident in the area immediately surrounding Quicken Loans Arena."

uum, we certainly know it well, we have condos in both downtowns, Downtown Clevelands "boom" is no bigger than Downtown Detroits "boom".
Infact they are pretty similar. Market appreciation lately is actually a bit higher in midtown here than anywhere in Cleveland. Id say overall Downtown Detroit is actually busier presently but Cleveland is doing nicely. . Areas population is also similar with all the new developments in both cities. As for neighborhoods , the boom in Tremont, Downtown , and Ohio City is basically the same as Detroit Downtown, Midtown. Lafayette Park, [[huge increases), Corktown and Indian Village areas. University Circle on the cities far east side is doing well but its similar in distance going north to six mile here, hardly a urban core area. Neither city outshines the other in progress. Detroit is not in a backseat position to whats going on in Cleveland. Detroit District is bigger than anything on the board presently in Cleveland. We used to think Cleveland had the edge but lately no way,,Detroit is doing very well..finally...

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · June-22-16, 11:42 AM

While I like this new version, I still prefer the original one. This building could be built anywhere, while the prior version was unique to that site.

**downtownguy** · June-22-16, 12:08 PM

From the Freep article:

About 700 Little Caesars staffers will work in the new building.

When Little Caesar's moved some of their employees downtown in 1988, the count was 400 employees. I think they pretty much filled the Fox Building at that time. The new building is considerably narrower and probably wont be much deeper. At 14' per floor, it will probably have fewer floor than the Fox. Even taking into account the theatre space in the Fox Building, I suspect it has fewer usable square feet than the Fox.

So, two skepticisms: Will the new building have capacity for 700 employees? Where will these 700 employees come from? Do they actually have that many working in the 'burbs? Sure they may do some new hiring, but 700? Really??

**emu steve** · June-22-16, 03:04 PM

Now that we have a design for the new building, I wonder what design the Ilitches will come up with for the housing across the street?

Will it blend with the new LC building?

**jt1** · June-23-16, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Now that we have a design for the new building, I wonder what design the Ilitches will come up with for the housing across the street?

Will it blend with the new LC building?

It will look like parking lots because it will remain parking lots. We are on the fourth iteration of 'we're going to build on those lots on Woodward.'

If people believed him the other 4 times there's no surprise they'll believe him again

**emu steve** · June-23-16, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

It will look like parking lots because it will remain parking lots. We are on the fourth iteration of 'we're going to build on those lots on Woodward.'

If people believed him the other 4 times there's no surprise they'll believe him again

Where is Mitt Romney when we need him [["Want to bet ten thousand dollars?").

Our last word was that the Ilitches were in negotiations with the church for the land.

The land is critical for the building[[s). [[Plural).

My guess is that another parking garage will go up first after the Tigers' season is over.

Then the residential units can be built after the garage is finished.

**jt1** · June-23-16, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Where is Mitt Romney when we need him [["Want to bet ten thousand dollars?").

Our last word was that the Ilitches were in negotiations with the church for the land.

The land is critical for the building[[s). [[Plural).

My guess is that another parking garage will go up first after the Tigers' season is over.

Then the residential units can be built after the garage is finished.

I find it comical that you are so willing to ignore their past and are so insistent that this time is different than all the others. To date, they have worked on the stadium and rolled out some architectural plans. As of 6/23/2016, history is repeating itself but you're the only one that misses it.

Full disclosure: I still think you are on an Ilitch/Olympia payroll

**southen** · June-22-16, 03:18 PM

Im sure the new housing will be somewhere between Orleans Landing and the new Gilbert Brush Park development. Modern, but nothing crazy or really groundbreaking.

**Hypestyles** · June-22-16, 03:26 PM

I hope plenty of jobs go along with this tower. Olympia should be publicly posting them.

**Detroitdave** · June-23-16, 09:44 AM

Talk about bait and switch , this is disappointing

**EGrant** · June-23-16, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

Talk about bate and switch , this is disappointing

Yes, because thinking an early rendering from months ago was going to be the final plan is such a terrible bait and switch...

**Detroitdave** · June-23-16, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by EGrant

Yes, because thinking an early rendering from months ago was going to be the final plan is such a terrible bait and switch...

an early rendering is one thing , this is totally different .
It's like someone sending you their high school picture from 15 years ago then you see them in person and you're like WTF !? LOL ... yeah I've put on a few pounds lol