Citywide Blackout 12-2-2014

[Wesley Mouch]

DTE is going to build out an infrastructure that they are going to be profiting from for decades to come.

If DTE makes the profits, DTE needs to make the investments.

Well, of course. I assume the part of DTE that would be providing this service is part of the regulated utility, and that this would fall under appropriate, reasonable regulation. If not, then the discussion is quite different.

One thing is sure. The City of Detroit has zero business being involved in running any public lighting. Public lighting is a commodity business. Done pretty much the same everywhere in the world. The City's time and energy should be focused on city services such as garbage, police, fire, ordinance enforcement and the like.

[old guy]

Strange, I've rarely, or possibly never heard of two different power systems in one city. Maybe I need to do more research but it doesn't seem to be a normal situation. What's the reasoning for doing that? Seriously, I just don't understand. Very possible that I'm just ignorant to the infrastructure of the city. Please enlighten me.

[Honky Tonk]

One thing is sure. The City of Detroit has zero business being involved in running any public lighting. Public lighting is a commodity business. Done pretty much the same everywhere in the world. The City's time and energy should be focused on city services such as garbage, police, fire, ordinance enforcement and the like.

You forgot to mention auto insurance. The City should also be involved in running that.

[Scottathew]

Strange, I've rarely, or possibly never heard of two different power systems in one city. Maybe I need to do more research but it doesn't seem to be a normal situation. What's the reasoning for doing that? Seriously, I just don't understand. Very possible that I'm just ignorant to the infrastructure of the city. Please enlighten me.

Quite simply, Detroit has it's own power grid that serves public needs such as fire stations, police stations, schools, a hospital, traffic lights, city hall, courthouses, jails, etc... This is called the Detroit Public Lighting Department, or PLD.

The city of Detroit operates a power plant that provides power to the grid. The power plant doesn't provide all the power needs, so there is a hookup into the DTE grid to transfer the delta between demand and PLD can generate.

In the past the PLD had the interconnects to the DTE grid burn out, causing the grids to seperate. When this happens, they had to shut down parts of the grid [[aka "rolling blackouts") and ask customers to reduce demand.

When a PLD customer loses power, the PLD [[not DTE) is responsible for finding out why and repairing the issue. The PLD literally operates it's own power plant, substations, transforms, and power lines throughout the city. A completely separate grid from DTE, other than the interconnect for excess demand.

This is very unusual. The closest thing in Michigan is the Lansing Board of Water and Light. They are different though, because they don't overlap a utility's coverage area. They have a coverage area where they are the provider. LBWL also does residential and business customers.

The Lansing BWL is famous for their total lack of response in the ice storm last year. They didn't call in extra crews. They did a poor job of communicating the outage. The BWL CEO actually went out of town to New York for Christmas, while all his linemen worked 16 hour days through the holiday. It was a prime example of how DTE and Consumers don't suck as much as a government run utility. It took BWL over two weeks to restore power to its customers following the 2013 Christmas ice storm.

[Dan Wesson]

Detroit makes the front page of the print USA Today...


"In Detroit as elsewhere, the stumbling block is cost.
A series of reports by international consultants McKinsey & Co., commissioned in 2010, determined that the city's municipal power system needed $250 million in repairs, the Detroit Free Press reports.
In fact, since the nearly insolvent city shuttered its power generating plant in 2010, its public power system has been purchasing electricity from the utility. Detroit emergency manager Kevyn Orr says that over the past five years, public lighting has cost the city about $150 million a year, the Free Press reported."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/02/aging-power-systems-detroit/19801935/

[Danny]

It's time for the old 61 year old City-County Building a.k.a Coleman A. Young Municipal Building to get a new back up generator.

[Danny]

So many facts wrong.

The issue was with the DPLD system, not DTE. DTE is fixing and taking over the system.

Gilbertown wasn't affected, because Gilbert buildings use DTE. Only public buildings and hospitals were affected.

Looks like THEY! didn't tell you the whole story. The Detroit Public Lighting Dept. works in conjunction with DTE Enengy their power lines connected with other power lines. through transformer sub stations. If the power lines for DPLD blew out it would also cause DTE power lines to blew out, too. like the 100 year old Christmas Light system. Not just Gilberttown Detroit was out of power, so the the rest of midtown, too. I have Street Prophets working for DPLD and DTE Energy.

[mtburb]

This is very unusual. The closest thing in Michigan is the Lansing Board of Water and Light. They are different though, because they don't overlap a utility's coverage area. They have a coverage area where they are the provider. LBWL also does residential and business customers.

You forgot Wyandotte-they are not served by DTE, but rather instead residents [[like me) receive power through Wyandotte Municipal Services, even with it's own power plant. Everything within the city limits of Wyandotte-every home, every business, every industrial facility, both fire stations, the police station/courthouse, Henry Ford Hospital, every school, every traffic light and so forth-receives power from WMS. And most of their blackouts last for only a couple minutes, though they've lasted for longer during storms and occasionally during high winds and back in mid-September I did loose power for about an hour-this probably contributed to my previous computer repeatedly shutting down a second after I turn it on and resulting in me getting my current computer-the one I typed this on.

WMS doesn't just run electricity-they also provide the entire city with it's own water system and even has it's own cable television headend, although it's not really much of a monopoly, as Wyandotte residents can instead opt for Xfinity and Uverse [[like me).

[Hypestyles]

in the long-term, what exactly is to be done with the Mistersky plant?

[Scottathew]

You forgot Wyandotte-they are not served by DTE, but rather instead residents [[like me) receive power through Wyandotte Municipal Services, even with it's own power plant....

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing!

[Don K]

Boy, I hear you! My sister must live near you. they had so many outages they bought a whole house generator too. DTE sucks!

Yep. I count on power going out 5 or 6 times per year around here. Mostly fairly short [[a few minutes), but occasionally several hours or more.

[Wesley Mouch]

You forgot to mention auto insurance. The City should also be involved in running that.

Precisely.

Auto Insurance is something citizens need and can't get elsewhere [[reasonably).

Street Lights and power for municipal buildings is being done right in Metro Detroit by others, at no greater cost to taxpayers, so get out of that business and spend your time working on insurance!

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Detroit makes the front page of the print USA Today...


"In Detroit as elsewhere, the stumbling block is cost.
A series of reports by international consultants McKinsey & Co., commissioned in 2010, determined that the city's municipal power system needed $250 million in repairs, the Detroit Free Press reports.
In fact, since the nearly insolvent city shuttered its power generating plant in 2010, its public power system has been purchasing electricity from the utility. Detroit emergency manager Kevyn Orr says that over the past five years, public lighting has cost the city about $150 million a year, the Free Press reported."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/02/aging-power-systems-detroit/19801935/

The Detroit blackout was also the lead story on NBC Nightly News. Detroit seems to be in the national headlines a lot lately, and not for good reasons.

[Wesley Mouch]

Detroit makes the front page of the print USA Today...


"In Detroit as elsewhere, the stumbling block is cost.
A series of reports by international consultants McKinsey & Co., commissioned in 2010, determined that the city's municipal power system needed $250 million in repairs, the Detroit Free Press reports.
In fact, since the nearly insolvent city shuttered its power generating plant in 2010, its public power system has been purchasing electricity from the utility. Detroit emergency manager Kevyn Orr says that over the past five years, public lighting has cost the city about $150 million a year, the Free Press reported."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/02/aging-power-systems-detroit/19801935/

Cost is not the stumbling block. If it were simply that investment needed to be made, it would be made.

The problem is that PLD is a bumbling mess. They say they run a power plant. But for at least a decade now my friends at DTE tell me it doesn't produce anything. But they keep the front up like a movie set so they maintain their status as an 'interconnect purchaser' of power from DTE. They do have a few gas turbines down there, but I've never heard them running. Its a front.

PLD is not needed today. The investment is not needed. The system should be scrapped and the users connected to DTE for their power. For what reason on earth does the city need a department to provide power to Joe Louis Arena? There are separate wires running all over town just to power police, fire, and schools. That's a massive waste, when there's a DTE line just a few feet away.

PLD was kept because it was politically desirable. Not because it made any sense. Kill it.

[MikeM]

Where's Detroit Nerd when we need him?