Killed outside cigar bar on Cadillac Square

[corktownyuppie]

That certainly would be a solution, but the perps would eventually just move somewhere else. How do you change this attitude that an article of clothing is worth more than someone's life? That's the big question.

You are right that it is the bigger and more important question. And, I'm not sure of the answer, and I don't know if any one person has the answer.

It points to the meta-question... how can you change the social norms of a culture/society? How do you take a culture that has only known dictatorship to embrace the responsibility of a republic or a democracy? How do you take a culture that values strength and muscle to embrace knowledge and intellect? How do you convince a society to forbid child brides and female circumcision? How do you take a culture that values greed and materialism to balance human compassion? How do you take a culture where a 20-minute delay is normal and have them embrace the German attitudes of punctuality, where you can throw away your watch and tell time by watching when the buses arrive?

It's a hard question.

But one part of that solution has to be stifling and choking away the options. For example, look at the attitudes about smoking in the last 50 years. Through slow, gradual change, smoking will be all but eliminated in the US within the next few generations without ever having to make it illegal.

And so one after another, businesses which cater to a violent subset of people need to be shut down until eventually, there's no longer a business case to open it up to begin with.

[Honky Tonk]

You are right that it is the bigger and more important question. And, I'm not sure of the answer, and I don't know if any one person has the answer.

It points to the meta-question... how can you change the social norms of a culture/society? How do you take a culture that has only known dictatorship to embrace the responsibility of a republic or a democracy? How do you take a culture that values strength and muscle to embrace knowledge and intellect? How do you convince a society to forbid child brides and female circumcision? How do you take a culture that values greed and materialism to balance human compassion? How do you take a culture where a 20-minute delay is normal and have them embrace the German attitudes of punctuality, where you can throw away your watch and tell time by watching when the buses arrive?

It's a hard question.

But one part of that solution has to be stifling and choking away the options. For example, look at the attitudes about smoking in the last 50 years. Through slow, gradual change, smoking will be all but eliminated in the US within the next few generations without ever having to make it illegal.

And so one after another, businesses which cater to a violent subset of people need to be shut down until eventually, there's no longer a business case to open it up to begin with.

It is a hard question, and, as you pointed out, neither myself nor anyone else has a solid answer. I do know there are factions, that by condoning, encourage this sort of lifestyle and retaliation. I also don't think a legitimate business owner opens establishment to cater to this type of clientele. For some reason, they are drawn to it, then ruin it for everyone, including the owners.

[ABetterDetroit]

You are right that it is the bigger and more important question. And, I'm not sure of the answer, and I don't know if any one person has the answer.

It points to the meta-question... how can you change the social norms of a culture/society? How do you take a culture that has only known dictatorship to embrace the responsibility of a republic or a democracy? How do you take a culture that values strength and muscle to embrace knowledge and intellect? How do you convince a society to forbid child brides and female circumcision? How do you take a culture that values greed and materialism to balance human compassion? How do you take a culture where a 20-minute delay is normal and have them embrace the German attitudes of punctuality, where you can throw away your watch and tell time by watching when the buses arrive?

It's a hard question.

No it's not. You change behavior in a civilized society with the enforcement of law.

Enforce the weapons laws we already have and make them tough with teeth! Mandatory minimums on gun charges, No bail on gun charges, NO parole on convictions under gun charges. These are things we can do right now immediately with out changing the constitution. Children and young people are getting killed in droves and everyone knows that the vast majority are crimes committed with ILLEGAL guns carried on persons or in vehicles, why is that NOT considered a major felony? Nothing ever good is going to happen when people with criminal records can walk/drive around with guns, It's just a matter of when something bad happens. Make it so anyone including criminal types think twice about touching Illegal guns because the penalty is so severe. Violent criminals should be in jail. If you carry guns illegally you are acting violent towards society.