Does Detroit suffer from Ghetto-itis ?

[ABetterDetroit]

Money doesn't fix much, yet people and attitudes can fix just about anything.

Wow this could be a forum record breaker...

[noise]

I have zero guilt for posting this thread, some are beginning to ""get it", understand it.

Interesting.

To what end, truly, did you create this thread? Be honest.

[Dan Wesson]

Interesting.

To what end, truly, did you create this thread? Be honest.

Philosophical Balance ?

[Detroitnerd]

Ha. Well, this thread turned into what it was doomed to be: A nonstop barrage of chest-beating suburban ex-Detroit triumphalism.

[Willi]

Well - it separates those that speak the truth from those that can't

Detroit does suffer from it. Look at the retail district in the upper middle class neighborhoods. Avenue of Fashion is a street full of weave shops, barbershops, low class antique/resale shops etc that dont pull or attract the people who live in the neighborhood.

Many threads on the forum looks like a cheerleading site with a bunch of of rah rah sis boom ba
-- and lack any real in depth commentary into the deeper ills, sickness and problems in the D

Some choose to walk with blinders on ; others call it exactly how they see it

[Detroitnerd]

Some choose to walk with blinders on ; others call it exactly how they see it

Ah, but even those with blinders on call it exactly how they "see" it. How else to explain your postings?

[Richard]

Well - it separates those that speak the truth from those that can't



Many threads on the forum looks like a cheerleading site with a bunch of of rah rah sis boom ba
-- and lack any real in depth commentary into the deeper ills, sickness and problems in the D

Some choose to walk with blinders on ; others call it exactly how they see it

I do not believe that is a fair statement to make,there is no other media that covers the city both good and bad in detail then this site.

People are well aware of the bad and most outsiders are intelligent enough to realize that some bad does not make all bad.

With the search engine you may find some of the topics that you provided links for have already been discussed many times,the questions are well known but the solutions are harder to achieve.

[dtowncitylover]

Holy cow this thread is something else. Frankly I felt I was in the psych ward full of crazies talking to each other in gibberish. It seems no one is talking with someone, you all seem to be talking to each other.

But from what I gather, there is a sense of the cliche "ex-Detroit suburbanite I told you so, so do it my way now" crowd up against the "no, we don't want you help you bunch of quitters but we'll take your spending money" city crowd. So basically, the same old stuff.

I think the neighborhoods that are kept up, like EEV, Corktown, the Rosedales, Palmer Park, etc all have great neighbors and committed people. The ones doing so poorly have a depleted population and the ones remain can't take care of an entire city block. They begin to feel jaded and the daunting process of keeping up an entire city block or neighborhood become to much and they quit. Don't blame them. And since no one is moving in, the blocks become trashed and yada yada yada they get blamed for it.

The suburbs though can't say shit. For the most part they ignored an entire city going to the dumps while using it as their personal playground, punch line, or hate because a black man moved into grandma's old neighborhood. The ENTIRE metro area has something to learn from the rest of the world. Sometimes I feel like this is kindergarten and we still have to learn to play nicely.

But frankly, I barely understood anything in this thread so I could be way off.

[Willi]

I sense the word GHETTO just isn't used, it is taboo, a topic that is avoided, because that search feature - did not focus on one other thread - with GHETTO as the keyword.

I do think Detroit has zoning, regulations, laws that are abandoned, simply not enforced,
and that definitely lend itself to the creation of a GHETTO.

Don't blame them.

Nice - no one to blame - but please fix it, spend money, use taxpayer funds, etc.

I live in a highly MIXED neighborhood of black skinned, yellow skinned, white skinned people with every religion imaginable , with a variety of cultural biases, and ethnicities mixed in.

No one gives a shit, a snot, or a care in the world IF

black man moved into grandma's old neighborhood.

The neighborhood DOES care a whole lot when it starts looking GHETTO and it has no guilt in telling someone fix it, cut it, don't build that, tear that down, etc., etc., etc.

[dtowncitylover]

I sense the word GHETTO just isn't used, it is taboo, a topic that is avoided, because that search feature - did not focus on one other thread - with GHETTO as the keyword.

I do think Detroit has zoning, regulations, laws that are abandoned, simply not enforced,
and that definitely lend itself to the creation of a GHETTO.



Nice - no one to blame - but please fix it, spend money, use taxpayer funds, etc.

I live in a highly MIXED neighborhood of black skinned, yellow skinned, white skinned people with every religion imaginable , with a variety of cultural biases, and ethnicities mixed in.

No one gives a shit, a snot, or a care in the world IF


The neighborhood DOES care a whole lot when it starts looking GHETTO and it has no guilt in telling someone fix it, cut it, don't build that, tear that down, etc., etc., etc.

What's going to help the city recover? The blame game or fixing it up? You keep blaming residents for their neighborhood's "ghetto-ness". What solutions are you offering to help them make it a better place to live? You need more than, "just clean it up already". The last person on a block can't keep the crackheads/prositutues/scrappers away.

How the hell do you expect the city to recover without spending money? We need to build infrastructure, clear up neighborhoods, invest in education and public safety. This requires money.

On the micro level. Sure! People need to take care of their blocks, but it seems in the truly stable neighborhoods they already do that.

[Detroitnerd]

What is it with poor people, anyway? People of means wanted them to have the chance to soar on their own wings, so they left their neighborhoods, took their money, their competent public officials, their banks, their insurance companies, their neighborhood associations, and fled. And, wouldn't you know it, those darn poor people don't clean up their houses, don't elect good politicians, don't found banks, can't get insurance and don't form well-capitalized neighborhood groups! I mean, what on earth is the matter with all these poor people, that they can't live just like their better-off neighbors? I tells ya, it's a crime.

[noise]

Some choose to walk with blinders on ; others call it exactly how they see it

Ah. So, trolling.

There is a problem when those who are calling it are seeing it mistakenly and choose to engage with earplugs in.

[noise]

Philosophical Balance ?

You are an optimist!

[noise]

I sense the word GHETTO just isn't used, it is taboo, a topic that is avoided, because that search feature - did not focus on one other thread - with GHETTO as the keyword.

And for many good reasons the word "ghetto" is rarely used. You only have to be plugged in and conscious a little to understand that.

The topic with which you're alluding, on the other hand, has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum.

[Willi]

Face reality -- there is NO MONEY coming today, tomorrow, or next year.

The only resource of any value in a neighborhood is the people and when they stop stop caring
the entire scheme of things falls apart. Why did people wait till only 1 family was left over ?

Oh the blame game - Yeah it goes like this - IT IS and ALWAYS will be - the other guys fault

When that changes, Detroit might recover and be able to crawl to the corner for the next round

No amount of money will change what is in peoples heads, it's the attitude that needs fixin'

[Detroitnerd]

Why oh why did you poor people stop caring?

[Willi]

Since when is poor a pre-requisite for caring ?

People can care regardless of what they are..............
http://www.dugganfordetroit.com/wp-c...orhoodPlan.pdf

[Detroitnerd]

Since when is poor a pre-requisite for caring ?

Since when is reading comprehension a pre-requisite for critical thinking?

Oh, since forever ago.

[Willi]

You're right Dnerd, a small nuclear blast, wait a year, rebuild - it's only poor people.

Caring not required.

People HAVE explored the possibilities already
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacefu...ear_explosions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plowshare

[Detroitnerd]

You're right Dnerd, a small nuclear blast, wait a year, rebuild - it's only poor people.

Caring not required.

Willi, I ask you in all honest: Are you drunk? Or just really, really stupid?

[Willi]

Why should I care - I live in Warren - on the other side of 8 Mile.
We have our own set of problems to overcome and can't be bothered with caring.
Has someone given me a reason TO care, no they haven't.
People apparently LIKE their Ghetto surroundings.
It's not like people tried really really hard to stop it from happening the last 10 years.

Did I leave that sarcasm button clicked on again, oh damn, it appears it is on.

[jt1]

Why should I care - I live in Warren - on the other side of 8 Mile.
We have our own set of problems to overcome and can't be bothered with caring.
Has someone given me a reason TO care, no they haven't.
People apparently LIKE their Ghetto surroundings.
It's not like people tried really really hard to stop it from happening the last 10 years.

Did I leave that sarcasm button clicked on again, oh damn, it appears it is on.

Warren: Movin' on up to the North side. If only all us poor people be smart and not be spendin' our time looking at art and stuff we could be learnin' to get us some a dat fat cash and move on up to the north side.

Quite a bit of condescension towards people in the city from someone in that glorious paradise that is Warren. Perhaps if you really save and move on on to Sterling Heights then you can really look down upon all of the poor folk south of 16 mile road.

[mwilbert]

I find this thread unusually misguided. On the one hand, there is no question that a big part of Detroit's problems is the number of people who live in the city and behave badly in one way or another. If someone thinks that isn't true, I think they are really deceiving themselves. But that isn't, thank goodness, the bulk of the population, which is mostly just people trying do live their lives as best they can. These are mostly not people with a lot of extra time and resources to spend repairing the damage caused by the less-well-behaved minority, although some of them certainly do. To tell them that they are responsible for dealing with those problems strikes me as oblivious at best.

As dtowncitylover said, there are many neighborhoods where the problems are dealt with, but those tend to be neighborhoods where a lower proportion of the residents are misbehaving and a higher proportion have some excess resources. I would be completely in favor of the city doing things to encourage more citizen participation in the maintenance and improvement of their neighborhoods, but it seems to me that it is unreasonable to expect a higher average level of civic engagement [[which is what would be required given the greater number of problems) from the largely poor residents of Detroit than we see from better-off people elsewhere.

That is why you will see Detroit revived, as is the case pretty much anywhere neighborhoods are revived, neighborhood by neighborhood, not in some kind of general improvement. You can get a virtuous cycle established in a smaller area much more easily.

[Willi]

Is it really .................... ?

""" it is unreasonable to expect a higher average level of civic engagement"""

It starts from ground zero and spreads outward; not the other way around.
The catalyst, the spark, the desire, must exist within the neighborhood itself.
If the caring isn't there, neither is the sharing, and it infects all who interact with it.

I see it in my own neighborhood. People almost expect someone else to do it.
Let another person make that call, have that guy down the street contact so and so, etc., etc.
Civic engagement - i.e responsibility - , exists for everyone, not just a select few.

"""glorious paradise that is Warren"""
Really, have you driven on Sherwood Avenue below 10 Mile - it's an industrial filthy beast.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sh...rren,+MI+48091