PIRG: I-94 Project One of the Worst "Highway Boondoggles"

[dtowncitylover]

I think we're talking about two different things here. What I am hearing is that 696 caused Royal Oak to benefit into a the pseudo-urban environment it is today. Therefore, the I-94 widening project will cause Detroit's CBD to experience growth in the same way. This is completely wrong.

I-94 is already there and is already used by commuters to come into the city. [[So where is the prosperous urban life?) 696 was not there before but when it did appear it helped people, mostly auto-centric suburbanites, to come into Royal Oak and Ferndale for some nightlife and the Zoo.

[Bham1982]

I think we're talking about two different things here. What I am hearing is that 696 caused Royal Oak to benefit into a the pseudo-urban environment it is today. Therefore, the I-94 widening project will cause Detroit's CBD to experience growth in the same way. This is completely wrong.

No one claimed such a thing.

The point is that a rep. from Royal Oak, host to massive freeway largesse, is fighting freeway improvements in competing jurisdictions. That's the hypocrisy. No one claims that Dexter Davison will morph into a Royal Oak-ish drunk tank for yahoos from Plymouth and Utica.

[dtowncitylover]

No one claimed such a thing.

The point is that a rep. from Royal Oak, host to massive freeway largesse, is fighting freeway improvements in competing jurisdictions. That's the hypocrisy. No one claims that Dexter Davison will morph into a Royal Oak-ish drunk tank for yahoos from Plymouth and Utica.

Ok, GOOD! That's like saying because I don't live in Israel/Palestine I'm not allowed to fight for peace. That's not hypocrisy, it's preemptive action. If 94 is widened unnecessarily and based off of a 10 year old study, then that paves [[no pun intended) the way for 75 to be unnecessarily widened.

You also make it seem like Rep. Townsend built 696 and 75 himself. While I'm sure he is committed to the maintenance of those freeways, he isn't interested in expanding them.

[Bham1982]

You also make it seem like Rep. Townsend built 696 and 75 himself. While I'm sure he is committed to the maintenance of those freeways, he isn't interested in expanding them.

And that's why he's a blatant hypocrite. He has one standard for Royal Oak, and then denies the same largesse for competing communities.

[dtowncitylover]

And that's why he's a blatant hypocrite. He has one standard for Royal Oak, and then denies the same largesse for competing communities.

Oh you sweet soul. We have to accept what we have and move on. But we can't let any further freeway widening happen in the city because it will further destroy it. Suburban "standards" don't belong in the city. Freeways, strip malls, and cul-de-sacs don't belong there. But unfortunately all three are there and we have to work so that we produce better urban-friendly infrastructure and planning.

I-94 needs to be resurfaced and repaired but it doesn't need widening just for some truckers and people that need to get to work 2 minutes earlier.

[Bham1982]

Oh you sweet soul. We have to accept what we have and move on.

No, we don't have to "accept it". It's a good thing, and we should embrace it. I-696 has been fantastic for Royal Oak.

But we can't let any further freeway widening happen in the city because it will further destroy it.

Freeway widenings have nothing to do with the decline in Detroit. There are basically no freeways on the East Side, which is easily the most decayed part of Detroit. The most prosperous parts of Detroit are carved up with freeways.

The people who blame freeways for Detroit's demise are the same people who think football stadiums and Buffalo Wild Wings are urban renewal. Southeast Michigan doesn't know the first thing about what makes cities tick.

[dtowncitylover]

No, we don't have to "accept it". It's a good thing, and we should embrace it. I-696 has been fantastic for Royal Oak.


Freeway widenings have nothing to do with the decline in Detroit. There are basically no freeways on the East Side, which is easily the most decayed part of Detroit. The most prosperous parts of Detroit are carved up with freeways.

The people who blame freeways for Detroit's demise are the same people who think football stadiums and Buffalo Wild Wings are urban renewal. Southeast Michigan doesn't know the first thing about what makes cities tick.

Well the most "prosperous" part of Detroit, by which I think you mean greater downtown, was indeed decayed or dacaying. Davison tore apart Highland Park. Decayed. Jeffries tore apart the west side. Brightmoor decayed. Look at the area surrounding 75 and Nevada, 7 Mile, and 8 Mile. The Fisher through Corktown didn't help much either.

There is nothing good about freeways in an urban environment. Cities should not be built for the car, we are the shining example why that shouldn't happen.

Maybe we can make the Southfield a full freeway and run it all the way to Woodward?

[Scottathew]

No one claimed such a thing.

The point is that a rep. from Royal Oak, host to massive freeway largesse, is fighting freeway improvements in competing jurisdictions. That's the hypocrisy. No one claims that Dexter Davison will morph into a Royal Oak-ish drunk tank for yahoos from Plymouth and Utica.

He's also fighting the I-75 expansion that goes right through Royal Oak\Madison Heights.

[swingline]

No one claimed such a thing.

The point is that a rep. from Royal Oak, host to massive freeway largesse, is fighting freeway improvements in competing jurisdictions. That's the hypocrisy. No one claims that Dexter Davison will morph into a Royal Oak-ish drunk tank for yahoos from Plymouth and Utica.

Cleaning out all of the strawmen in your garage and the red herrings from your refrigerator, eh Bham? Yes, it can be a struggle to find an argument that successfully allows you to demonize someone with whom you disagree politically. But maybe you're right. Maybe Rep. Townsend is a Brooks Patterson mole in the Dem party whose secret agenda is to make sure that Oakland County's money stays in Oakland County. After all, everybody has their hand in your wallet out there, right?

Or maybe he's smart enough to identify a massive waste of taxpayer dollars that will do nothing for Detroit and everything for the road building lobby and the facilitation of 70 mph commutes for suburbanites.

[poobert]

The comparison is somewhat specious but completely idiotic.

I-94 already exists. It therefore bears no comparison to the construction of 696. Talk of closing lanes on 696 is incendiary nonsense.

The only time you're going to encounter serious traffic on I-94 is if there is an accident, in which case an additional lane or two won't help.

"Accessibility" does not mean being able to go 70 miles per hour during rush hour, contrary to the belief of every idiot driver in Metro Detroit and the total shit-for-brains at MDOT. These morons can't even prevent the roads they have from totally disintegrating. I wouldn't trust them to bag my groceries.

Further, I actually live off of I-94 in Detroit on the eastside and I think if you don't you should screw off because it's pretty much none of your business. It's my backyard and I think it's the stupidest fucking idea since the plastic lamppost covers.

I think those of us in area around I-94 should get a vote on the issue, whether to widen I-94 or not widen it and throw rotten vegetables at MDOT executives, and I know which side would win out.

[Gpwrangler]

The comparison is somewhat specious but completely idiotic.

I-94 already exists. It therefore bears no comparison to the construction of 696. Talk of closing lanes on 696 is incendiary nonsense.

The only time you're going to encounter serious traffic on I-94 is if there is an accident, in which case an additional lane or two won't help.

"Accessibility" does not mean being able to go 70 miles per hour during rush hour, contrary to the belief of every idiot driver in Metro Detroit and the total shit-for-brains at MDOT. These morons can't even prevent the roads they have from totally disintegrating. I wouldn't trust them to bag my groceries.

Further, I actually live off of I-94 in Detroit on the eastside and I think if you don't you should screw off because it's pretty much none of your business. It's my backyard and I think it's the stupidest fucking idea since the plastic lamppost covers.

I think those of us in area around I-94 should get a vote on the issue, whether to widen I-94 or not widen it and throw rotten vegetables at MDOT executives, and I know which side would win out.

70 is the limit on most freeways. I-94 was designed long ago and needs to be updated to handle modern cars and speeds. Entrance ramps need to be lengthened to allow safe merging. The freeway bogs down for hours almost every day and there are many accidents on some of the curves.

When done it needs to look like I-96. It is a major artery from the east side through downriver and beyond.

[iheartthed]

70 is the limit on most freeways. I-94 was designed long ago and needs to be updated to handle modern cars and speeds. Entrance ramps need to be lengthened to allow safe merging. The freeway bogs down for hours almost every day and there are many accidents on some of the curves.

When done it needs to look like I-96. It is a major artery from the east side through downriver and beyond.

Then Michigan could reduce the speed limit and save several billion dollars.

[Gpwrangler]

Then Michigan could reduce the speed limit and save several billion dollars.

^^^^^ lol nope!

[poobert]

70 is the limit on most freeways. I-94 was designed long ago and needs to be updated to handle modern cars and speeds.

This is, of course, more Metro Detroit provincial nonsense. I know want to absolutely FUCKING FLY from downtown to Grosse Pointe in ten minutes but there is, of course, no justification for that.

Mass Pike is 55 mph in Boston, as just one example of many, and picks up outside the city. There is no logical or sane reason any human being needs to go 70 through a major American city. To actively engineer such a project is an exercise in stupidity, which MDOT is more than well-versed at.

So spare me your crap about modern cars. Modern cars don't need to go 85 mph at all times.

[Gpwrangler]

This is, of course, more Metro Detroit provincial nonsense. I know want to absolutely FUCKING FLY from downtown to Grosse Pointe in ten minutes but there is, of course, no justification for that.

Mass Pike is 55 mph in Boston, as just one example of many, and picks up outside the city. There is no logical or sane reason any human being needs to go 70 through a major American city.

So spare me your crap about modern cars. Modern cars don't need to go 85 mph at all times.

70 is what modern highways are designed for. We don't drive Delta 88s anymore. And time is money. 55mph in the D? Better be in the right lane. Even the trucks pass me when I slow to 65 [[only where legal of course). Slow speeds are actually a hazard.

[dtowncitylover]

When done it needs to look like I-96. It is a major artery from the east side through downriver and beyond.

That's the last thing we need. Another Jeffries Freeway of 10 lanes just because.