Book Cadillac's condos to come down in price.

MIRepublic · July-31-09, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

MIRepublic... go to thread "Lafayette Buildings Top Two Floors Subsiding"... read pages 3 and 4 of said thread... and then come back here and you may want to "rephrase" your post....

No. That the Holiday Inn, ATT and McNamara Buildings are keeping buyers away is just a patently stupid thing to say on its face, period.

**bailey** · July-31-09, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by lo_to_d

Three years??? The units have only been available for closing for nine months. That's 1.33 units a month. Not great, but I have to bet that this is better than any new subdivision around the metro area.

They've been for sale since 06. Furchill reported that deposits were in on almost all 64 way before October of last year [[when people could actually start moving in). the challenge raised here was that those numbers were bullshit and no where near that number would actually close. and that was prior to the finance world implosion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McIPor

A $650,000, 3500sf live work unit in Bham just sold for $210,000 last week.

Don't tell them that.... it takes away some of their smug "I told you so"....

apples to apples? a live work space isn't exactly the same thing and appeals to a different buyer and whole different niche. but for the sake of argument, I wonder who will make their money back first? Someone who just lost 35% of the value of their purchase in the Book Caddy...or someone who over the last year lost 35% of their value in their condo in B'ham?

spiritofdetroit

what is your source for the information that the hotel is failing miserably?

http://www.portfolio.com/business-tr...Hotel-Doldrums

"The statistics are scary," admits Shannon Dunavent, general manager of the Doubletree Guest Suites hotel that was lovingly carved out of the carcass of the Fort Shelby. "I've been working in Michigan for 20 years and I won't lie to you. There's no new business in the market. We're all trying to steal from the other guy to survive."

maybe not "failing miserably" but struggling mightily?

**dcmorrison12** · July-31-09, 08:34 AM

I truly don't believe it's a bad investment to buy a condo and the Book Caddy, or in Detroit. The city has been getting better and I firmly believe will continue to do so. The opening of the Rosa Parks Transit Center is now helping to stabilize the prices of the condos, since transit is a desirable thing to live near, making the investment less risky. The renovation of Capitol Park will only help in the matter. The road with the Caddy is off of is absolutely beautiful, newly redone with wonderful landscaping and scultpures. Don't forget, the light rail, once it's constructed, is going to do wonders for the housing market down there. I'd say your best bet in SE Michigan is investing in Detroit.

**davewindsor** · July-31-09, 08:49 AM

Are these condo-hotel units or just condos. I thought I read somewhere that these were like the condo-hotels in Toronto, where you could have the BC rent them out for the night if you're not in town as higher end hotel rooms for a 20% comission. The normal BC hotel rooms are 476 sq. ft. These condos start at a thousand sq. ft. [[twice the size). If you can get $300 a night for Fri/Sat for a 1000 sq.ft condo, that's $2,400 a month. The base size Holiday Inn suites run for $110-$189 a night and I heard they get pretty filled on Fri/Sat.

**Detroit500** · July-31-09, 10:25 AM

I wonder what the association dues are for this residence. I also hear that the real-estate agents aren't helping push this property. A relative of mine wanted to buy one of these, and the realtor told him not to buy it.

Another comment... I just find it funny how the people on this forum are so "gun-ho" about preservation, and how we want buildings preserved, restored, etc. etc. but when it comes to the building actually being restored, preserved, and open for business they can come up with a million reasons as to why no one should actually invest in the restored property.

**BW7085** · July-31-09, 02:52 PM

Another comment... I just find it funny how the people on this forum are so "gun-ho" about preservation, and how we want buildings preserved, restored, etc. etc. but when it comes to the building actually being restored, preserved, and open for business they can come up with a million reasons as to why no one should actually invest in the restored property

You are absolutly right Detroit500

**bailey** · July-31-09, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by BW7085

You are absolutly right Detroit500

I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating why people shouldn't invest in these places, what is being pointed out is the reality that people aren't. And those who did, just got screwed by the builder deciding to fire sale the condos.

**Gistok** · July-31-09, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating why people shouldn't invest in these places, what is being pointed out is the reality that people aren't. And those who did, just got screwed by the builder deciding to fire sale the condos.

The fact that there's a NATIONAL deep recession and real estate prices in ALL of SE Michigan have been in a severe tailspin... seems to be lost somewhere in your argument, doesn't it Bailey?

**Detroit500** · August-01-09, 09:40 AM

I really hope that Westin, Ferchill, et. all will weather this economic storm. The Book-Cadillac has the opportunity to do a great deal of good for Detroit. I really hope they make it!

**Meddle** · August-01-09, 11:38 PM

Although this article isn't about Detroit, I thought it was an interesting parallel:

FORT MYERS, Fla. [[AP) - The Vangelakos' southwest Florida condominium has marble floors, a large pool overlooking a river and modern furnishings that speak of affluence and luxury. What they don't have in the 32-story building is a single neighbor.

The New Jersey family of five purchased their unit four years ago, when Fort Myers was in the midst of a housing boom and any hints of an impending financial crisis were buried in lofty dreams of expansion and development. They made a $10,000 down payment and eagerly watched as builders transformed an empty lot into an opulent high rise, one that now symbolizes the foreclosure crisis.

"The future was going to be southwest Florida," said Victor Vangelakos, 45, a fire captain who planned to eventually retire and live permanently in the condo.

Most of the other tenants in the 200-unit condo didn't close on their contracts, and the few that did have transferred to an adjacent building owned by the same company because more people live there.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=1

**royce** · August-02-09, 01:09 AM

I was wondering, "What would happen to occupied condo units if the hotel went under?" Meddle, the article you provided seems to answer some of my question. Are there any examples of hotel/condo buildings where the hotel part shut down, leaving the condos there?

**LeannaM** · August-02-09, 01:24 AM

Seems like most Downtowns are having issues selling condos and lofts.

I'm somewhat familiar with St. Louis, and a few of their loft projects have stalled, some others have become rentals. Of course, Downtown St. Louis rental prices can vary widely depending on the building and the size of the loft/condo. I think the average is around $730/per month for 1 bedrooms to $1760 per month for the better condos/lofts for rent. Seems like the average condo/loft price is around $200k-$500k.

Can the owners of the Book-Cadillac not rent the units? At least they would get some money that way. Seems like nobody is buying right now.

**softailrider** · August-02-09, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by dcmorrison12

I truly don't believe it's a bad investment to buy a condo and the Book Caddy, or in Detroit. The city has been getting better and I firmly believe will continue to do so. The opening of the Rosa Parks Transit Center is now helping to stabilize the prices of the condos, since transit is a desirable thing to live near, making the investment less risky. The renovation of Capitol Park will only help in the matter. The road with the Caddy is off of is absolutely beautiful, newly redone with wonderful landscaping and scultpures. Don't forget, the light rail, once it's constructed, is going to do wonders for the housing market down there. I'd say your best bet in SE Michigan is investing in Detroit.

The folks who move into the Book aren't going to give a damm about the Rosa Parks Transit Center. I'm sure they will all have their own vehicles, They're not the ones who are ging to stand around on Cass Ave waiting for public transportation.

**Hypestyles** · August-02-09, 01:32 PM

so... how does one get invited to these "invitation only" presentations...

what's involved with moving into a place on a 25th floor?
how is parking handled.. do you get a free parking permit at a nearby garage?
how is garbage handled..

**davewindsor** · August-02-09, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

so... how does one get invited to these "invitation only" presentations...

what's involved with moving into a place on a 25th floor?
how is parking handled.. do you get a free parking permit at a nearby garage?
how is garbage handled..

I think you missed that presentation, but there are still private tours if you call the number further up in the thread. I'm sure they can answer you any other questions. I would be surprised if they offered free parking, as typically in new high rise condos you pay at least 10 grand extra for a designated parking spot in the attached garage if you want parking.

EastSider · August-02-09, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by EastSider

Perhaps this should be cross-posted to Crap Journalism, but John Gallagher's usually more careful than that. If you go to the BookCadillacResidences web site, you'll see this

Call 734 259 1110 today or register on-line to schedule your private tour of the most luxurious hi-rise in Detroit.

The link to register for the shin-dig on the 30th is online. It's "invitation only" but anybody can request an invitation.

My guess is that since anybody could call and register for the event on the 30th, maybe you could call them and see if they have any more planned.

**bailey** · August-03-09, 08:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey

I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating why people shouldn't invest in these places, what is being pointed out is the reality that people aren't. And those who did, just got screwed by the builder deciding to fire sale the condos.

The fact that there's a NATIONAL deep recession and real estate prices in ALL of SE Michigan have been in a severe tailspin... seems to be lost somewhere in your argument, doesn't it Bailey?

reading comprehension seems to be lost in yours G. As noted in multiple postings, the condos have been for sale since 2006. There was a discussion way before October of last year that the builder was touting unrealistic numbers for that entire time...as Croweblack confirmed. IIRC, things like the pricing being way out of whack with reality, the end of exotic mortgages and the further contraction and loss of jobs in auto industry [[due, at that time to 4.00+ a gallon gas) were support for the position that the claims Ferchill was making about sales numbers and the market supporting the development were clearly bullshit, had no basis in reality, and would not be realized. Someone should pay up on the bet, is all I'm saying.

My observation here regarding the Book's fire sale is that if Detroit is such a "great" investment for the long term as many keep claiming here [[but few actually buying in...strange), why isn't the builder holding on to the places and renting them out instead of slashing prices and burning those 12 [[out of 64) that bought one? If they don't sell for a few years, it's not going to break the project. At least renting them out will cover some of the costs. The money maker is and was always, the Westin. It seems like a strange decision to devalue and knock out the "prestige" of a "premier" property so soon. $199,900 sort of kicks the chic right out of the development.. no? I mean, what's next? An auction like at the Ellington?

There are a couple of things I see; a) Ferchill has reversed course and has no long term optimism about a recovery in Detroit condo prices so Ferchill wants out now before further collapse, or b) He never had it in the first place and the condo side of the development was a sop to those who held the purse strings on those tax credits and subsidies that made the hotel possible. Now with what little market there was for this type of development long since tapped out, Ferchill wants out as fast as possible.

Either way, doesn't really bode well for any adaptive re-use of similarly situated buildings.

**3WC** · August-03-09, 05:06 PM

Ferchill has little, if anything, at risk, as a practical matter, as a result of the failure of the condo project.

The ultimate losers are MI taxpayers. Ferchill borrowed $6 million from MSHDA to develop the condos [[after having been turned down for a grant in that amount.) MSHDA does not have a lien on the condos; it has however, a lien on Ferchill's "equity" in the entire project. The equity is presumably worthless as he has only $3 million in cash invested [[virtually all paid to Butzel Long for legal fees probably.) Ferchill also borrowed $20 million [[as I recall) which he put into the deal, but the lender on that tranch has a lien superior to anything MDHDA has for security.

It's called social investing; MI is good at it.

**cman710** · August-03-09, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

I think you missed that presentation, but there are still private tours if you call the number further up in the thread. I'm sure they can answer you any other questions. I would be surprised if they offered free parking, as typically in new high rise condos you pay at least 10 grand extra for a designated parking spot in the attached garage if you want parking.

I am not sure whether they offer free parking, but I do know that the first few floors of the garage next door and reserved for the Residences [[I think I counted about 150 spots, actually). And there is a walkway from the 3rd or 4th floor of the garage directly into the building [[not accessible to hotel guests). As a result, I assumed parking would be included, but perhaps that is not the case.

Downtown diva · August-04-09, 08:17 PM

a friend of mine names Dex paid full price for one. he seems pretty happy with the deal and would do it again, maybe even willing to pay more.

not sure I think he is so smart.

**gnome** · August-04-09, 08:42 PM

I too paid full market price, actually I paid a little more just to get in early. Sweet deal. I think I met your friend Dex in the parking valet, he was blowing the carhop to get his car out of hock.

It worked. Gotta like that Volarie styling. Dex has good taste, ... except for that Scope breath.