Pay cuts, school closures, steeper student losses on way, DPS plan shows

[professorscott]

I couldn't have said that^ better. Similar arguments could be made for the privatization of prisons [some might say they are the same as they deal with mandatory state laws]. They all work nicely at first and then a bait and switch factor sets in. Investors want more profit and quality declines.

You can blame this if you want, but it's sort of akin to blaming the cleanup crew that comes to take away the rubble after the house has burned down.

In the 1980s I had occasion to visit three public schools and also one of the "area offices" if you remember that whole setup. The schools were a disgrace; they were absolutely falling apart. Meanwhile the area office was as nice as any corporate headquarters you'd care to visit.

DPS failed because the people responsible for it were running it for their own benefit and convenience; the children had very little, if anything, to do with it. The charters at least give some families hope that they can stay in Detroit and get their kids a decent education. Granted, that's also a crapshoot, but it's hard to argue it's any more of a crapshoot than staying with DPS.

[Wesley Mouch]

You can blame this if you want, but it's sort of akin to blaming the cleanup crew that comes to take away the rubble after the house has burned down.

In the 1980s I had occasion to visit three public schools and also one of the "area offices" if you remember that whole setup. The schools were a disgrace; they were absolutely falling apart. Meanwhile the area office was as nice as any corporate headquarters you'd care to visit.

DPS failed because the people responsible for it were running it for their own benefit and convenience; the children had very little, if anything, to do with it. The charters at least give some families hope that they can stay in Detroit and get their kids a decent education. Granted, that's also a crapshoot, but it's hard to argue it's any more of a crapshoot than staying with DPS.

I'm really tired of the self-serving drumbeat against charters.

I've seen little evidence that charters did anything to harm public education. They took away students, and they took away money. Fair enough. DPS was not educating them, to be sure. And some Charters do an excellent job, and others not so much.

But if you don't think the mere existence of Charters has improve public education, then you probably think DPS was doing just fine and only needed more money.

A world without Charters is a great goal. But monopoly public education in Detroit with ever-increasing funding sure wasn't doing the job.

The fight against charters is a fight for ever-increasing dollars spent on public education. I want teachers to be well-paid -- but we don't need the bloat of DPS administration of the past to educate kids.

The idea that Charters are destroying education in America is pure fantasy. Monopoly public education in urban cities were doing that job well-enough before Charters.

[motz]

I'm really tired of the self-serving drumbeat against charters.

I've seen little evidence that charters did anything to harm public education. They took away students, and they took away money. Fair enough. DPS was not educating them, to be sure. And some Charters do an excellent job, and others not so much.

But if you don't think the mere existence of Charters has improve public education, then you probably think DPS was doing just fine and only needed more money.

A world without Charters is a great goal. But monopoly public education in Detroit with ever-increasing funding sure wasn't doing the job.

The fight against charters is a fight for ever-increasing dollars spent on public education. I want teachers to be well-paid -- but we don't need the bloat of DPS administration of the past to educate kids.

The idea that Charters are destroying education in America is pure fantasy. Monopoly public education in urban cities were doing that job well-enough before Charters.

Charters are just shifting the money to people connected with politicians while doing a worse job educating students. Stop pretending the free market can do anything right. Charter schools are as big, if not a bigger, failure that we need to stop pretending has done anything except siphon dollars into politically connected companies. $1B across the state for schools is A LOT of money. Money is a big part of the issue, since money allows for you to have manageable classroom size, cutting edge resources to assist in the engagement of students, salaries for people who have a job I doubt much of anyone wants, and that's just the start. Public education educated YOU, got YOU where you are today, so why can't we do the same now? Because free market? Because we don't have the balls to say privatizing everything doesn't work, to say that we need to have a system that holds public services accountable rather than systematically dissemble them for the benefit of those who can operate outside of the systems?

[Kevgoblue]

I'm really tired of the self-serving drumbeat against charters.

A world without Charters is a great goal. But monopoly public education in Detroit with ever-increasing funding sure wasn't doing the job.

The fight against charters is a fight for ever-increasing dollars spent on public education. I want teachers to be well-paid -- but we don't need the bloat of DPS administration of the past to educate kids.

Excellent point. Where do you suggest we implement for profit charters next? The Pointes? Birmingham / Bloomfield?
The monopolies of those school systems must also be robbing the children of prescious dollars that could be used to finance their education. Get rid of that bloated legacy cost and focus the money where it belongs and improve the districts. Those kids deserve the opportunity to get a good education too, don't they?

[Wesley Mouch]

Excellent point. Where do you suggest we implement for profit charters next? The Pointes? Birmingham / Bloomfield?
The monopolies of those school systems must also be robbing the children of prescious dollars that could be used to finance their education. Get rid of that bloated legacy cost and focus the money where it belongs and improve the districts. Those kids deserve the opportunity to get a good education too, don't they?

Every kid does. The points spend less per pupil than Detroit [[about $13k GP vs. $14k DET in 2011-12) If GP parents decide to leave public and go charter, I'm fine with that. All that matters is students. All this war over control and money isn't helping.

[1953]

DPS should dissolve tomorrow, as its dissolution is inevitable.

That said, its dissolution has been rapidly hastened by the siphoning off of students and dollars to charters, most of which are no better than low performing Detroit Public Schools.

[mwilbert]

Every kid does. The points spend less per pupil than Detroit [[about $13k GP vs. $14k DET in 2011-12)

The Pointe schools may spend less, but we can be pretty certain that the Pointe kids get more spent on their educations.

I think the DPS should not exist because of its proven record of complete incapability, but let's not pretend that Detroit kids get the same support as kids elsewhere.

Also, in answer to whoever asked what the city residents will get out of the elimination of the DPS, let me agree with what professorscott said:

The charters at least give some families hope that they can stay in Detroit and get their kids a decent education. Granted, that's also a crapshoot, but it's hard to argue it's any more of a crapshoot than staying with DPS.

Michigan doesn't do enough to hold the charters accountable, and there are a number of truly awful charters that haven't been closed, but at least it is possible to find one that is functional. As long as DPS exists, some people will use it as a default option. That is not a good thing.

[Zacha341]

Yep... charters vary widely in quality and curriculum. You need research each on before you make a choice in sending your child there.

Michigan doesn't do enough to hold the charters accountable, and there are a number of truly awful charters that haven't been closed, but at least it is possible to find one that is functional. As long as DPS exists, some people will use it as a default option. That is not a good thing.