Pay cuts, school closures, steeper student losses on way, DPS plan shows

[Zacha341]

The 2014-15 school year could bring an additional [the first 10% occurring in 2011] 10% wage reduction for DPS employees. And while no schools will close this year, 24 schools will be shuttered beginning in 2015-16.

Among the challenges DPS officials face: The budget they crafted earlier this year included $14.8 million in expected revenues from a county-wide school millage that voters turned down Aug. 5. District spokeswoman Michelle Zdrodowski said in an e-mail that the newplan offers the most conservative projections and estimates available.

From article:

http://www.freep.com/article/2014081...budget-deficit

[Danny]

That's what DPS folks get if Detroiters reject the millage. Well it's more black kids heading off suburban schools when they take the D-DOT and SMART buses instead of the school bus.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Does this have anything to do with Snyder's education cuts?

[Wesley Mouch]

Does this have anything to do with Snyder's education cuts?

More to do with years of DPS waste, fraud, abuse, as well as the rush away from DPS from most people who can find a way to get a better education for their kids.

Except for vested interests... who cares about DPS. I only care about education for our kids. And don't care who does it, or whether they profit or not.

Resutls, baby. DPS has not proven they can do it. And some charters are finding a way, while others are useless. But don't stop the progress just because the average charter isn't better than the average public. [[Because that means some charter are better than average, too. And they might provide new approaches forbidden by the rule-bound DPS.)

[Dan Wesson]

what's the matter? That pandering, flimflam, huckstering slogan ain't working no more?

It's for the kid's...


There was a time when I believed.

[maverick1]

More to do with years of DPS waste, fraud, abuse, as well as the rush away from DPS from most people who can find a way to get a better education for their kids.

Except for vested interests... who cares about DPS. I only care about education for our kids. And don't care who does it, or whether they profit or not.

Resutls, baby. DPS has not proven they can do it. And some charters are finding a way, while others are useless. But don't stop the progress just because the average charter isn't better than the average public. [[Because that means some charter are better than average, too. And they might provide new approaches forbidden by the rule-bound DPS.)

I think this has been true for the last 14 years the state has run DPS. This is the last step before DPS is fully dissolved, charters are only left, and then poor kids in Detroit will get Cranbrook level education. *sarcasm*

[Johnnny5]

We're seeing the results of a failing experiment that tried combining public education and the "free market". While the idea that charter schools and Schools of Choice would improve the education of individual students is still debatable. What is not debatable is that that this experiment has absolutely gutted and destroyed many major urban school districts! Charter schools have siphoned funding from schools when they were already struggling and left these districts unable to deal with the legacy costs of decades of educating our children. This system has also resulted in a situation where districts such as DPS are left to deal with the most difficult and disengaged students while others leave to suburban districts or charters. IMO DPS is doomed, and even though the guys in Lansing are responsible there's not a chance they'll ever admit it.

[Lowell]

We're seeing the results of a failing experiment that tried combining public education and the "free market". While the idea that charter schools and Schools of Choice would improve the education of individual students is still debatable. What is not debatable is that that this experiment has absolutely gutted and destroyed many major urban school districts! Charter schools have siphoned funding from schools when they were already struggling and left these districts unable to deal with the legacy costs of decades of educating our children. This system has also resulted in a situation where districts such as DPS are left to deal with the most difficult and disengaged students while others leave to suburban districts or charters. IMO DPS is doomed, and even though the guys in Lansing are responsible there's not a chance they'll ever admit it.

I couldn't have said that^ better. Similar arguments could be made for the privatization of prisons [some might say they are the same as they deal with mandatory state laws]. They all work nicely at first and then a bait and switch factor sets in. Investors want more profit and quality declines.

[Zacha341]

Another related factor in this is the quasi-charter 'contraption' known as EAA [[Educational Achievement Authority) schools where DPS low performing were so converted. Schools our millages paid for [[Think the rebuilt Mumford HS, etc.)

What's up with that? How are they preforming academically? How's the chancellorship [[Covington) and what not going? Funding sources? Outcomes?

I think this has been true for the last 14 years the state has run DPS. This is the last step before DPS is fully dissolved, charters are only left, and then poor kids in Detroit will get Cranbrook level education. *sarcasm*

[313WX]

Another related factor in this is the quasi-charter 'contraption' known as EAA [[Educational Achievement Authority) schools where DPS low performing were so converted. Schools our millages paid for [[Think the rebuilt Mumford HS, etc.)

What's up with that? How are they preforming academically? How's the chancellorship [[Covington) and what not going? Funding sources? Outcomes?

To answer your question, it's not "going" nor "performing."

The schools suffer from the same cultural problems that they did under DPS' control [[the administrators of the EAA were DPS administrators in fact). Remember that Pershing, where the teacher beat the students with a broom stick for fighting in the classroom, is an EAA school.

The biggest difference is the teachers aren't unionized, but rather they're at-will, lowly-paid Teach for America contractors.

[Zacha341]

Additionally this goes back to and thru the Granholm administration et al.

Does this have anything to do with Snyder's education cuts?

[Hypestyles]

If/when DPS officially dissolves, then what? "Celebrations"? Where's the "win" in this for city residents?

[Wesley Mouch]

If/when DPS officially dissolves, then what? "Celebrations"? Where's the "win" in this for city residents?

The 'win' for students. Their education is the only thing that matters. Perhaps a new district could raise from the ashes and do a better job.

Giving more and more money down to traditional districts did nothing to improve Detroit education. Charters, for all their warts, sometimes provide better education. Sometimes worse. But the important thing is that it changes.

The worse schools will lose support. And crucially, DPS [[and districts) start innovating and have no doubt improved since the introduction of charters.

Or we can just close the charters and give the money back to the districts. Why we think that would work is completely lost on me. Wishful thinking. Money is not the problem.

What's really happening here is indeed a fight for control of the schools. Who control the schools. Professional administrators [[public and private)? Or teacher's unions? Take class size. Sure, smaller is generally better. But if someone has a new idea that certain classes should be very large, and others very small, can they implement it in unionized public schools? No Way. We know the solution. Give us more money and all will be well -- and kill those Charters that are taking our money too. We were doing so well before you tried to fix things. Go away with any new ideas, but please leave more cash. And stop telling us that there are new ideas that should be tried. Everything is fine. We'll control the schools and the money.

[FlyOnTheWall]

What's really happening here is indeed a fight for control of the schools. Who control the schools. Professional administrators [[public and private)? Or teacher's unions? Take class size. Sure, smaller is generally better. But if someone has a new idea that certain classes should be very large, and others very small, can they implement it in unionized public schools? No Way. We know the solution. Give us more money and all will be well -- and kill those Charters that are taking our money too. We were doing so well before you tried to fix things. Go away with any new ideas, but please leave more cash. And stop telling us that there are new ideas that should be tried. Everything is fine. We'll control the schools and the money.

Well said Mr Mouch, well said. I rarely see the truth stated so well here.

[Danny]

If/when DPS officially dissolves, then what? "Celebrations"? Where's the "win" in this for city residents?

It be a total loss for poor Detroit kids. A Detroit without its Detroit Public Schools is like having City of Inkster without Inkster Public Schools. And it happened.


This will be the result for poor welfare food stamp eating Detroit kids will go for education:

1. Detroit Charter Schools Buildings will be in place for them. However most charter schools are very strict; sometimes forcing their students to learn fast and do the homework like clockwork robotic automatons until their reach college level educational requirements. Refusal to follow such rules will result of exclusion from that institution, causing the parent to go to any administrator to appeal their case. If the student[[s) reach college, their minds will burn out before they can drop-out in the first year.

2. Some Detroit Charter Schools Buildings have failed earlier times. Causing parents to send their child to other charter schools Detroit or suburbs or via school of choice to some suburban schools. [[ In which white middle class folks don't want.)

3. Most suburb schools apply the code of conduct zero tolerance rules that certain charter schools have. This would put pressure of the student[[s) and parent[[s).

This whole public educational system in Great State of 'Mich-ississippi' is a mess of monopoly, treating public schools as a corporation in order to receive government funding. It's has gone too far and kids are losing out and dropping out in the process.

Teachers, quite whining about your pensions and teach my child.

Administrators, quite playing politics and fix our school campuses.

Kids, summer playtime is over. Go to school or else!

[Honky Tonk]

It be a total loss for poor Detroit kids. A Detroit without its Detroit Public Schools is like having City of Inkster without Inkster Public Schools. And it happened.


This will be the result for poor welfare food stamp eating Detroit kids will go for education:

1. Detroit Charter Schools Buildings will be in place for them. However most charter schools are very strict; sometimes forcing their students to learn fast and do the homework like clockwork robotic automatons until their reach college level educational requirements. Refusal to follow such rules will result of exclusion from that institution, causing the parent to go to any administrator to appeal their case. If the student[[s) reach college, their minds will burn out before they can drop-out in the first year.

2. Some Detroit Charter Schools Buildings have failed earlier times. Causing parents to send their child to other charter schools Detroit or suburbs or via school of choice to some suburban schools. [[ In which white middle class folks don't want.)

3. Most suburb schools apply the code of conduct zero tolerance rules that certain charter schools have. This would put pressure of the student[[s) and parent[[s).

This whole public educational system in Great State of 'Mich-ississippi' is a mess of monopoly, treating public schools as a corporation in order to receive government funding. It's has gone too far and kids are losing out and dropping out in the process.

Teachers, quite whining about your pensions and teach my child.

Administrators, quite playing politics and fix our school campuses.

Kids, summer playtime is over. Go to school or else!

Kids, quit screwing around with your cellphones, surfing the internet, listening to music, and tex'n your friends. Start showing up, paying attention, doing and turning in homework, and actually learning something. This way you'll get an education, be qualified to get a good paying job, be able to buy coffees @ Fourbux, not become a burden to society. Attending DPS does not mean showing up once a year on "count-day", and getting a free I-Phone.

[SDCC]

When I lived in Detroit in 06, my niece attended Melvindale public schools

[Dan Wesson]

It ain't gonna be over until the MEA/NEA are beaten to a pulp.

[animatedmartian]

Detnews editorial: Should Duggan take control of DPS including charter schools?

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...oit-s-schools-

[Hypestyles]

pro-charter absolutism sucks, especially when poor students are the main "guinea pigs". there has yet to be any empirical evidence that points to their much vaunted vast superiority. It's just not out there. Why are all the pro-charter folks against any standardized regulation?

[Jimaz]

pro-charter absolutism sucks, especially when poor students are the main "guinea pigs". there has yet to be any empirical evidence that points to their much vaunted vast superiority. It's just not out there. Why are all the pro-charter folks against any standardized regulation?

I'd guess it has something to do with the profit motive.

FBI Raids of Charter School Operators Jump: Are the Feds finally catching on that all is not well in the charter school movement?

[motz]

I'd guess it has something to do with the profit motive.

FBI Raids of Charter School Operators Jump: Are the Feds finally catching on that all is not well in the charter school movement?

You don't understand the free market, Jimaz. Why is the FBI trying to regulate the free market? It's for the kids man, c'mon. Free market for the kids.

[Jimaz]

You don't understand the free market, Jimaz. Why is the FBI trying to regulate the free market? It's for the kids man, c'mon. Free market for the kids.

Sarcasm noted.

In a related story, For-Profit College Grads Have The Same Shot At A Job Interview As People Who Never Went To College

In their television ads, for-profit colleges promise to deliver credentials that will jump-start students’ careers. The people lured in by that marketing end up deeper in debt than community college students but fare no better with hiring managers, according to a new study. In fact, for-profit graduates don’t even gain a job hunting advantage over applicants with no college experience at all....

That on top of the student debt trap is just another example of how predatory our world has become. Caveat discipulus!

[BankruptcyGuy]

The way I see it, there are two separate questions:

1. How can it be that DPS cannot balance its budget? It knows [[roughly) the numbers of teachers and students it will have. It knows [[roughly) the other costs of operation. The state reimbursement and the teacher costs are not orders of magnitude different from other districts. Why can't they match costs to revenues?

2. On the other hand, DPS may need to spend more [[per child) and hire better teachers [[do they?) to get OUTCOMES that are either close to other districts or in line with expectations. Otherwise put, will the state need to spend more in DPS [[or the EAA, or Detroit-based charters) to get reasonable results of education?

I understand #2 is a very tricky question. I don't think that #1 is all that complicated. And that is a failing of administration [[who come from the union ranks, mostly) and the unions.

The Wayne RESA enhancement millage [[which failed) was pitched as a way to get better technology in classrooms, keep programs for kids, and improve buildings. Yet, when it failed, the only cut announced was teachers' salaries. Was the millage really just to preserve teachers' salaries?

[Wesley Mouch]

The way I see it, there are two separate questions:

1. How can it be that DPS cannot balance its budget? It knows [[roughly) the numbers of teachers and students it will have. It knows [[roughly) the other costs of operation. The state reimbursement and the teacher costs are not orders of magnitude different from other districts. Why can't they match costs to revenues?

2. On the other hand, DPS may need to spend more [[per child) and hire better teachers [[do they?) to get OUTCOMES that are either close to other districts or in line with expectations. Otherwise put, will the state need to spend more in DPS [[or the EAA, or Detroit-based charters) to get reasonable results of education?

I understand #2 is a very tricky question. I don't think that #1 is all that complicated. And that is a failing of administration [[who come from the union ranks, mostly) and the unions.

The Wayne RESA enhancement millage [[which failed) was pitched as a way to get better technology in classrooms, keep programs for kids, and improve buildings. Yet, when it failed, the only cut announced was teachers' salaries. Was the millage really just to preserve teachers' salaries?

You wisely touch on a central problem. The current status-quo doesn't direct funds to the students. The incentives reward bureaucracy and increasing costs.

Perhaps Charters can show the way here. Their biggest contribution may be finding a better financial model where the incentive is to educate at the most economical cost -- not with the most powerful bureaucracy.