Armed robber thwarted at Packard - "no crime committed" say police

**night-timer** · July-26-14, 12:23 PM

Yesterday myself and Django were on Concord Street on the eastern side of the Packard Plant for some photography of the building's exterior.

There is 24/7 security on-site now, but only one guard at any given time. The guard is friendly enough, un-armed and keeps a close eye on things. He won't allow access to the inside of the plant [[stick to the main streets) and says he phones the Sheriff if anyone is found inside.

Anyway, I was shooting some pix on Concord while Django sat in his pick-up truck. The next thing I hear is Django saying "Get in the car!". I looked around and saw some youths in hoodies walking towards me. [[Hoodies in summertime?)

I picked up my camera bag, walked over to the pick-up and threw the bag into the back of the truck. Then I went back for my tripod. As I walked towards the car with it, I noticed one youth running straight towards me. I threw the tripod into the truck and dived into the back of the truck, lying on top of my equipment.

By this stage the youth had reached the truck and was holding what appeared to be a Glock pistol. He was standing at the passenger window and yelled "Give it up!".

Django was in the driver's seat unaware that the kid had a gun. I could see it plainly. The next thing I heard was the screech of our tires on the road and we got out of there.

As the car edged forward, the youth was now beside the flatbed, with me lying in it. I could've easily been shot. Luckily the youth didn't fire, or maybe he only had a replica or unloaded pistol.

I asked Django whether we should report the matter to Police. He seemed to think there was little point, but we saw the Packard security guard driving by and pulled up beside him. He phoned police and three or four squad cars arrived in quick time.

We did our best to give a description of the thugs. The police went cruising around to look for them but I don't know what they found, if anything.

According to the police no crime was committed because the thieves got nothing from me and "seeing someone with a gun" is not a crime.

We made it out safely, but a guy brandishing a pistol within inches of us is "not a crime"?

**Dan Wesson** · July-26-14, 12:31 PM

Where was yours?

**Dan Wesson** · July-26-14, 12:48 PM

If you can answer the questions lawfully and not denied by the NICS background check I think you could.

The concealed permit is something else.

https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

**night-timer** · July-26-14, 12:37 PM

I'm Australian. I don't live in Detroit. I'm not a US citizen or a US resident, so presumably I don't qualify for a pistol licence [[?). Does anyone know if that is correct?

**Johnnny5** · July-26-14, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by night-timer

I'm Australian. I don't live in Detroit. I'm not a US citizen or a US resident, so presumably I don't qualify for a pistol licence [[?). Does anyone know if that is correct?

Only legal Michigan residents can purchase a pistol in Michigan.

**unclefrank** · July-26-14, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by night-timer

I'm Australian. I don't live in Detroit. I'm not a US citizen or a US resident, so presumably I don't qualify for a pistol licence [[?). Does anyone know if that is correct?

That would be correct

**Dan Wesson** · July-26-14, 12:40 PM

Really now if the guy was waving a gun at you and you felt in fear for your life you could'a used it legally. Running was the first thing on the agenda but it sounds like he had you.

Florida has got it right now and I'm waiting on Michigan to do the same.

Florida warning shot law

You seen first hand the cops attitude towards your situation. Can't blame 'em.

**Cliffy** · July-26-14, 12:55 PM

You had no business being there. I mean its the most dangerous city in America and you're shooting pictures of some old broken down factory. We've all heard the warnings on this board about that area and how people are waiting there to rob you. Can you imagine getting killed because of taking photos of the Packard... Dude, don't risk your life for photos anymore.

**animatedmartian** · July-26-14, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

You had no business being there. I mean its the most dangerous city in America and you're shooting pictures of some old broken down factory. We've all heard the warnings on this board about that area and how people are waiting there to rob you. Can you imagine getting killed because of taking photos of the Packard... Dude, don't risk your life for photos anymore.

Most people don't have any business going around pointing their gun at others and trying to take their things. Can you imagine being able to rob people and get away with it just because they "should have known better"? Why doesn't every criminal use that excuse all the time?!

**scottn55** · July-26-14, 02:56 PM

I must've driven by as this was all going down. I was on my way home from Belle Isle when I was passed by two DPD Dodges on Grand Blvd. They stopped in front of the Packard plant where a guy in an old brown Crown Vic [[the security guard?) was waiting for them. I wondered what was going on since the cops were in too big of a hurry to be going after trespassers.

**night-timer** · July-26-14, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by scottn55

I must've driven by as this was all going down. I was on my way home from Belle Isle when I was passed by two DPD Dodges on Grand Blvd. They stopped in front of the Packard plant where a guy in an old brown Crown Vic [[the security guard?) was waiting for them. I wondered what was going on since the cops were in too big of a hurry to be going after trespassers.

The Packard security guard sits in a gold coloured sedan. I don't know the make or model because I'm not familiar with your local US cars. The Police arrived and the three or four squad cars were all parked on the intersection of Grand Boulevard and Concord, just near the Packard footbridge above Grand Boulevard. I don't know anything about guns, either - it was a small black pistol. Could've been anything.

**Cliffy** · July-26-14, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Most people don't have any business going around pointing their gun at others and trying to take their things. Can you imagine being able to rob people and get away with it just because they "should have known better"? Why doesn't every criminal use that excuse all the time?!

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ssaults-thefts

**night-timer** · July-26-14, 04:28 PM

BTW, Django and myself were NOT trespassing at the Packard. I openly introduced myself to the on-site security guard and told him I would be sticking to the main roads only. I did not at any time enter the plant or trespass. We were on/around Grand Boulevard and Concord Street.

**animatedmartian** · July-26-14, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ssaults-thefts

So what, are the police going to ask victims if they checked the internet before going to Packard? In that particular thread, most of the cases occurred on the property and pretty much all parties involved were trespassing. However, in this thread, the OP was on public property. Regardless, why are you defending the actions of criminals? They're the ones who are doing wrong and shouldn't be allowed to take other people's stuff, violently or otherwise.

**Cliffy** · July-26-14, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

So what, are the police going to ask victims if they checked the internet before going to Packard? In that particular thread, most of the cases occurred on the property and pretty much all parties involved were trespassing. However, in this thread, the OP was on public property. Regardless, why are you defending the actions of criminals? They're the ones who are doing wrong and shouldn't be allowed to take other people's stuff, violently or otherwise.

Common sense. Don't be walking in the "hood" with expensive equipment and setting up photography shoots. Just like I don't walk 6 mile and Gratiot. Because their are ghetto thugs ready to pounce on me.

**Mark Smiles** · July-27-14, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ssaults-thefts

Yep, this is the most eye opening thread about crime in Detroit, excepting for DetroitNerd's "Ooooh, something awful happened in Detroit!" comment about a guy being beaten nearly to death by group of people in Detroit. DetroitNerd's contention that the whole affair was a joke, was confirmed by the Courts in Detroit.

The thread you posted makes it very clear, that being in the area, justifies the actions, of those who would help themselves to what is "available".

So if getting beaten into a comma is a joke, "Ooooh", and simply being at the Packard Plant justifies the actions of others, what happened to the OP would be a crime anywhere but Detroit.

**mwilbert** · July-26-14, 01:01 PM

Brandishing a pistol is a crime in Michigan. Allowing someone to see a pistol probably isn't. Based on your account, I would say that there was a crime in there.

**night-timer** · July-26-14, 01:07 PM

So would I... a plainly aggressive act, running straight towards us and pulling out a pistol while saying "Give it up!"

**iheartthed** · July-26-14, 01:42 PM

The Packard Plant is probably the best place in Detroit for thieves to pick up expensive cameras.

**animatedmartian** · July-26-14, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by night-timer

According to the police no crime was committed because the thieves got nothing from me and "seeing someone with a gun" is not a crime.

We made it out safely, but a guy brandishing a pistol within inches of us is "not a crime"?

That's still attempted robbery. How the fuck do the police disregard that?

**Wesley Mouch** · July-26-14, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

That's still attempted robbery. How the fuck do the police disregard that?

On one hand, we fight against S&F. Then on the other hand, we complain that the cops don't make judgement calls. Which do we want.

The cops hit this right. Your word against someone else's. I say that guy with the gun actually just found something of yours on the ground and wanted to return it. His social skills are a bit lacking. And he carries a gun because he lives in a dangerous neighborhood. He's actually quite a nice guy, I hear.

**night-timer** · July-26-14, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

On one hand, we fight against S&F. Then on the other hand, we complain that the cops don't make judgement calls. Which do we want.

The cops hit this right. Your word against someone else's. I say that guy with the gun actually just found something of yours on the ground and wanted to return it. His social skills are a bit lacking. And he carries a gun because he lives in a dangerous neighborhood. He's actually quite a nice guy, I hear.

Wesley, sorry but I'm from Sydney, Australia. I don't understand a word of what you just said.

And who, or what, is S&F?

**mwilbert** · July-26-14, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

On one hand, we fight against S&F. Then on the other hand, we complain that the cops don't make judgement calls. Which do we want.

This is not really a correctly framed question. I didn't see anyone suggesting that police not make judgment calls, but of course people want police to use good judgment. The problem with stop and frisk isn't that people are stopped and frisked. The problem is that they are stopped and frisked for no particular reason, or for an illegitimate reason, which is both a waste of police resources and an imposition on those being stopped, and which makes it hard for the police to have a constructive relationship with the community they are policing.

On the other hand, if someone complains that they have just been threatened with a handgun, that is an actual reason to stop someone, check to make sure the gun is legal, check if they have outstanding warrants. The two situations have basically nothing to do with each other.

**davewindsor** · July-27-14, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

That's still attempted robbery. How the fuck do the police disregard that?

It looks like the DPD is playing the "lets manipulate the crime statistics game" like the NYPD to make the city sound safer than it actually is. It sounds like someone higher up is telling front line officers not to process crimes that have a low chance of getting cleared. So by an officer not registering a crime happened, it looks like the crime rate in Detroit went down and the clearance rate for solving crimes went up when the DPD is just refusing to register a crime happened. It's wrong. The NYPD is notorious for not processing serious crimes and the DPD is following their example. I posted a long thread about what the NYPD was doing and how the 81st Brooklyn precinct was busted when one of their officers told the media about what they were doing here==> http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?15627-40-less-crime-would-do-wonders-for-Detroit`

Someone needs to tell Mayor Duggan this is unacceptable.

**night-timer** · July-27-14, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

It looks like the DPD is playing the "lets manipulate the crime statistics game" like the NYPD to make the city sound safer than it actually is. It sounds like someone higher up is telling front line officers not to process crimes that have a low chance of getting cleared. So by an officer not registering a crime happened, it looks like the crime rate in Detroit went down and the clearance rate for solving crimes went up when the DPD is just refusing to register a crime happened. It's wrong. The NYPD is notorious for not processing serious crimes and the DPD is following their example. I posted a long thread about what the NYPD was doing and how the 81st Brooklyn precinct was busted when one of their officers told the media about what they were doing here==> http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?15627-40-less-crime-would-do-wonders-for-Detroit`

Someone needs to tell Mayor Duggan this is unacceptable.

Dave Windsor, I think you speak the truth... thanks to all of you for your insights, your opinions and for your Detroit local knowledge!