Ilitch announces Huge plans for Red Wings Arena Project - Renderings Released

**SpartanDawg** · September-23-14, 03:11 PM

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...l#incart_river

there's an ice rink open for the public until october 5th for free skating

**emu steve** · September-24-14, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by SpartanDawg

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...l#incart_river

there's an ice rink open for the public until october 5th for free skating

the article refers to it as 'synthetic' - never heard that term used with ice rinks before...

"Later, beginning Saturday, Sept. 27, a synthetic ice rink will be set up at the future site of the new arena."

**Honky Tonk** · September-24-14, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by SpartanDawg

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...l#incart_river

there's an ice rink open for the public until october 5th for free skating

It's not "free", it cost the "public" $350 mil.

**SpartanDawg** · September-24-14, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

It's not "free", it cost the "public" $350 mil.

good one....

**ndavies** · September-24-14, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

the article refers to it as 'synthetic' - never heard that term used with ice rinks before...

"Later, beginning Saturday, Sept. 27, a synthetic ice rink will be set up at the future site of the new arena."

It's synthetic because they aren't using ICE. They're using a slippery sheet material instead. There's an entire industry built around it. Some Examples http://www.kwikrink.com/ and http://www.ezglide350.com/

**Hypestyles** · September-24-14, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by ndavies

It's synthetic because they aren't using ICE. They're using a slippery sheet material instead. There's an entire industry built around it. Some Examples http://www.kwikrink.com/ and http://www.ezglide350.com/

wow, seriously... lol..

**gumby** · September-24-14, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

wow, seriously... lol..

Well how else to you expect them to construct an ice rink in 50-60 degree weather?

**ndavies** · September-24-14, 08:44 AM

When I said there is a whole industry dedicated to this stuff, I didn't mean Ice rinks. This is just one application of an Anti-friction surface. Anti-friction surfaces are used in many products.

**motz** · September-24-14, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by SpartanDawg

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...l#incart_river

there's an ice rink open for the public until october 5th for free skating

I heard the Koch brothers manufacture the synthetic ice and that Hitler helped in the construction of the rink. Is this true SpartanDawg?

**bailey** · September-24-14, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by motz

I heard the Koch brothers manufacture the synthetic ice and that Hitler helped in the construction of the rink. Is this true SpartanDawg?

No, you have it all wrong. Obama blocked the manufacture of the synthetic ice because Tom Steyer told him to. Steyer will profit when his group manufactures it using chinese child slave labor. George Soros and the Unions are getting kickbacks on the rink construction so it'll end up 1/3rd the size and cost 8 times what was projected. When that happens, the taxpayers will have to bail out the project because Schauer and Grahnholm are in the pocket of special interests that want to offshore the synthetic ice manufacture AND the Unions. Really never sure what Granholm has to do with anything....but clearly she's to blame now too!

**SpartanDawg** · September-24-14, 12:43 PM

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ils-on-funding

crains got some great details about the arena today

Seating:

The current design shows 20,189 seats, an increase over Joe Louis Arena’s 20,066 seats [[largest in the NHL). The new arena seating breaks down as 9,518 in the lower bowl, 832 in suites, another 2,884 in the upper concourse, and 6,555 in the upper desk. There are 400 press seats.

46 suites total

A widened Woodward Avenue bridge over the Fisher Freeway will be lined with storefront shops for pedestrians. The district will be linked into the M-1 Rail streetcar project on Woodward.

**animatedmartian** · September-24-14, 06:00 PM

Fox Sports Detroit will televise the ground breaking ceremony tomorrow at 1:30. It'll also be streaming online.

http://www.foxsports.com/detroit/sto...hursday-092414

**401don** · September-24-14, 07:54 PM

The shops along the freeway bridge sound great but I think we all know these are going to end up being kiosks that open a couple of hours before events and sell t-shirts and concessions. There just isn't demand for small retail stores in most of downtown, let alone on a freeway pedestrian bridge.

**emu steve** · September-25-14, 03:57 AM

Today's article on said arena and development planned around the arena:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...roit/16192173/

**emu steve** · September-25-14, 04:15 AM

And a Freep article on more tourneys including B1G hockey and hoops...

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nh...rena/16155149/

**ghettopalmetto** · September-25-14, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Today's article on said arena and development planned around the arena:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...roit/16192173/

So they're building a mall, with a hockey arena to lure customers for a quarter of the year. How innovative!

Sure glad the City and State magically found $250 million that no one was using. Lord knows Detroit needs more malls.

**animatedmartian** · September-25-14, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

So they're building a mall, with a hockey arena to lure customers for a quarter of the year. How innovative!

Sure glad the City and State magically found $250 million that no one was using. Lord knows Detroit needs more malls.

And ya know, also throwing plenty of apartments in there too. Not sure of too many malls with apartments in them.

**SpartanDawg** · September-25-14, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

So they're building a mall, with a hockey arena to lure customers for a quarter of the year. How innovative!

Sure glad the City and State magically found $250 million that no one was using. Lord knows Detroit needs more malls.

street front retail and an entire district THAT IS OPEN 365 DAYS A YEAR TO THE PUBLIC..

not quite a suburban mall that is for 'a quarter of the year'.

good try

**ghettopalmetto** · September-25-14, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by SpartanDawg

street front retail and an entire district THAT IS OPEN 365 DAYS A YEAR TO THE PUBLIC..

not quite a suburban mall that is for 'a quarter of the year'.

good try

What kind of establishments do we think Mike Ilitch is going to sign to his 45-block wonderland? Do we think these will be coney islands? Or perhaps he's going to aim to copy San Jose? Given Detroit's median household income, who exactly is going to patronize these establishments, beyond hockey fans? Sure, I know downtown is growing in population...but is that population sufficient to sustain an area of high-rent stores that is "larger than Georgetown"?

We were told that GMs WinterGarden would revolutionize retail in Detroit too. And before that, the high-end stores in the 1970s RenCen were going to "lure" people back downtown to shop. Ilitch has a grand idea. I just don't know if a sudden and *massive* infusion of high-end chain establishments is sustainable. Not yet, anyway. These businesses will need thousands of pedestrians to pass by *each and every single day* in order to make a profit. So the architecture [[whether or not the Ilitch district is integrated with the existing street grid, or is segregated into a self-contained compound) will be a huge determining factor.

But what do the Ilitches care? They can lose $250 million on the deal, and thank the taxpayers for absorbing the loss.

**bailey** · September-25-14, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

What kind of establishments do we think Mike Ilitch is going to sign to his 45-block wonderland? Do we think these will be coney islands? Or perhaps he's going to aim to copy San Jose? Given Detroit's median household income, who exactly is going to patronize these establishments, beyond hockey fans? Sure, I know downtown is growing in population...but is that population sufficient to sustain an area of high-rent stores that is "larger than Georgetown"?

We were told that GMs WinterGarden would revolutionize retail in Detroit too. And before that, the high-end stores in the 1970s RenCen were going to "lure" people back downtown to shop. Ilitch has a grand idea. I just don't know if a sudden and *massive* infusion of high-end chain establishments is sustainable. Not yet, anyway. These businesses will need thousands of pedestrians to pass by *each and every single day* in order to make a profit. So the architecture [[whether or not the Ilitch district is integrated with the existing street grid, or is segregated into a self-contained compound) will be a huge determining factor.

But what do the Ilitches care? They can lose $250 million on the deal, and thank the taxpayers for absorbing the loss.

Well, if this gets built as described and proposed [[which I think is a HUGE "if")....it'll answer the whole "chicken/egg"/circular logic argument of "Detroit lacks residents because it lacks retail and it lacks retail because it lacks residents".

If it doen't blow open the floodgates for people to move back, maybe people will stop claiming it's all about a lack of bars or flagship regional "Nordtroms" type retail, and maybe about other things.

**ghettopalmetto** · September-25-14, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Well, if this gets built as described and proposed [[which I think is a HUGE "if")....it'll answer the whole "chicken/egg"/circular logic argument of "Detroit lacks residents because it lacks retail and it lacks retail because it lacks residents".

If it doen't blow open the floodgates for people to move back, maybe people will stop claiming it's all about a lack of bars or flagship regional "Nordtroms" type retail, and maybe about other things.

There's no chicken-and-egg about it. Retail is *always* the last component to fall into place. And chain retail, even more so, as they tend to be far more risk-averse. Your typical retail shop can't afford to absorb years of losses waiting for its customer base to move in.

But that's just based on what happens in every other city in the world. Detroit, as we know, is governed by an entirely different set of economic principles than the rest of the universe.

**bailey** · September-25-14, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

There's no chicken-and-egg about it. Retail is *always* the last component to fall into place. And chain retail, even more so, as they tend to be far more risk-averse. Your typical retail shop can't afford to absorb years of losses waiting for its customer base to move in.

But that's just based on what happens in every other city in the world. Detroit, as we know, is governed by an entirely different set of economic principles than the rest of the universe.

Well, it sort of is. Name another US city with the level of abandonment of Detroit. name a more segregated racially and economically than Detroit. Name another city with all the rest of all the co-morbidity factors that Detroit is dealing with like a state legislature and region that is pretty much focused on making sure Detroit received as little assistance as possible. Hell, even brands closely associated with it like Cadillac are [[at least symbolically) pulling up stakes and fleeing.

Detroit is different. It, as an entity, has very little reason to exist. I mean just think what Detroit would look like if Gilbert had decided Cleveland was the place to be. 60? 70%? vacancy downtown? SOMETHING transformative needs to happen to reverse half a century of decline and bad decisions...otherwise we might as well just cut the losses and let it return to ribbon farms. Maybe convincing some retailers to open some loss leader outlets is a pump primer... but, sure, maybe it's as futile and stupid as trying to build a Chinatown in a parking deck in an isolated location. I tend to think this has far more chance of success [[IF any of this ever gets built... we all know Illitch's track record) than the Wintergarden ever did though.

**Bham1982** · September-25-14, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

So they're building a mall, with a hockey arena to lure customers for a quarter of the year. How innovative!

Sure glad the City and State magically found $250 million that no one was using. Lord knows Detroit needs more malls.

They aren't going to build a thing, besides the arena. That article is beyond stupid.

First, Santana Row is a suburban shopping mall. It's basically the Somerset of San Jose. It has nothing whatsoever to do with hockey arenas, stadiums in general, mixed use development, urban renewal or anything related to the new hockey arena in Detroit.

How on earth did that article go from suburban shopping mall in Silicon Valley to Illitch claims of glorious upcoming mall retail in the Cass Corridor? I have no clue.

**swingline** · September-25-14, 10:20 AM

It's definitely a positive sign that Chris Ilitch and the Olympia Development organization have been influenced by Santana Row in San Jose. http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...roit/16192173/ Although Santana Row's architecture includes a bit too much faux, it's design succeeds because of its density and balance of mixed uses. It is a destination for outsiders as well a home to over 1000 residents. It skillfully created excellent pedestrian scale in an auto dominated city that attracts shoppers, diners and hotel guests.

The Arena District site in Detroit actually has an advantage over the Santana Row site because of its closer proximity to the downtown core. Hopefully it's not foolish to remain optimistic that a new mixed use neighborhood will actually get created alongside the new arena.

**swingline** · September-25-14, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

They aren't going to build a thing, besides the arena. That article is beyond stupid.

First, Santana Row is a suburban shopping mall. It's basically the Somerset of San Jose. It has nothing whatsoever to do with hockey arenas, stadiums in general, mixed use development, urban renewal or anything related to the new hockey arena in Detroit.

How on earth did that article go from suburban shopping mall in Silicon Valley to Illitch claims of glorious upcoming mall retail in the Cass Corridor? I have no clue.

Santana Row's form is nothing like a suburban shopping mall. Not even close.