Interest building to build a 5K Soccer Stadium

**emu steve** · July-18-14, 10:28 PM

It seems interest is growing to get a USL team and building a 5K stadium for that team and the Detroit FC. [[The story line was that Detroit FC has outgrown Cass Tech).

Some sites mentioned. And was mentioned two clubs would share the stadium thereby providing more dates. [[USL would be 20).

I still favor Ilitch selling some of his land near Temple and 3rd [[?). After all, if fans can get to Cass Tech they surely can get to a new stadium a few blocks away. That land has expandability into a larger stadium, if needed for MLS.

Sound logic?

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...ut-bigger-home

**Honky Tonk** · July-18-14, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...ut-bigger-home

It seems interest is growing to get a USL team and building a 5K stadium for that team and the Detroit FC. [[The story line was that Detroit FC has outgrown Cass Tech).

Some sites mentioned. And was mentioned two clubs would share the stadium thereby providing more dates. [[USL would be 20).

I still favor Ilitch selling some of his land near Temple and 3rd [[?). After all, if fans can get to Cass Tech they surely can get to a new stadium a few blocks away.

Sound logic?

I'm glad they're doing great, but you don't know how long the crest will last. Have they approached Wayne State?

**emu steve** · July-24-14, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I'm glad they're doing great, but you don't know how long the crest will last. Have they approached Wayne State?

I just re-read this post and I'll ask a question I asked re: Cass Tech - can the playing field area be expanded???? [[the issue at Cass is trying to get more seats on the west side of the stadium).

Wayne's stadium has a track surrounding it [[just like EMU).

I believe a soccer stadium might require more area than a football stadium and a stadium with a track isn't really 'expandable'.

Anyone know if WSU has hosted ANY soccer matches? Have they tried to fit a soccer field at Adams Field?

[[time for me to go to Wiki and find out the size of soccer fields vis-à-vis American football).

EDIT: [[Here are the dimension issues from Wikipedia):

American football [[known as football in the United States and gridiron in some other countries) is a sport played by two teams of eleven players on a rectangular field 120 yards long by 53.33 yards wide with goalposts at each end.

[[Soccer): Standard pitch measurements. Not all pitches are the same size, though the preferred size for many professional teams' stadiums is 105 by 68 metres [[115 yd × 74 yd) with an area of 7,140 square metres [[1.76 acres).

**************

The lengths are comparable [[soccer field is 5 yards shorter), but a soccer field is 20 yards wider.

A soccer field would not fit at Wayne's stadium because of the track surrounding the football field.

I suppose if a USL or equivalent team wanted to play at WSU, maybe a deal could be worked out for WSU to remove the track and convert the field to football/soccer [[instead of football/track), but there would be a lot of expense involved in building a new track. Would a USL team be willing to foot the bill?

**Honky Tonk** · July-24-14, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I just re-read this post and I'll ask a question I asked re: Cass Tech - can the playing field area be expanded???? [[the issue at Cass is trying to get more seats on the west side of the stadium).

Wayne's stadium has a track surrounding it [[just like EMU).

I believe a soccer stadium might require more area than a football stadium and a stadium with a track isn't really 'expandable'.

Anyone know if WSU has hosted ANY soccer matches? Have they tried to fit a soccer field at Adams Field?

[[time for me to go to Wiki and find out the size of soccer fields vis-à-vis American football).

EDIT: [[Here are the dimension issues from Wikipedia):

American football [[known as football in the United States and gridiron in some other countries) is a sport played by two teams of eleven players on a rectangular field 120 yards long by 53.33 yards wide with goalposts at each end.

[[Soccer): Standard pitch measurements. Not all pitches are the same size, though the preferred size for many professional teams' stadiums is 105 by 68 metres [[115 yd × 74 yd) with an area of 7,140 square metres [[1.76 acres).

**************

The lengths are comparable [[soccer field is 5 yards shorter), but a soccer field is 20 yards wider.

A soccer field would not fit at Wayne's stadium because of the track surrounding the football field.

I suppose if a USL or equivalent team wanted to play at WSU, maybe a deal could be worked out for WSU to remove the track and convert the field to football/soccer [[instead of football/track), but there would be a lot of expense involved in building a new track. Would a USL team be willing to foot the bill?

I would welcome Pro Soccer to Detroit, [[for the 3rd time) but I just don't see the need for yet another stadium. Wouldn't it be cheaper to alter the WSU stadium, then build one from scratch? Another plus would be WSU would be getting more exposure.

**emu steve** · July-24-14, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I would welcome Pro Soccer to Detroit, [[for the 3rd time) but I just don't see the need for yet another stadium. Wouldn't it be cheaper to alter the WSU stadium, then build one from scratch? Another plus would be WSU would be getting more exposure.

I could see EITHER Wayne State or Cass Tech but we'd need either a university or public school to work with a private entity to get it done.

I'd suspect it would be much, much easier for WSU to pull it off.

I'm trying in my mind to view the WSU athletic fields [[I have a WSU degree and have gone to football games there during the Joique Bell era) and think if they have enough space at Trumbull and W. Warren to put up a [[replacement) track.

They have sufficient parking for football/soccer.

EDIT:

There is enough unused space at Trumbull and W. Warren and maybe also at Trumbull and the Edsel Ford service drive for a track.

I like the idea. They could add say 1,000 permanent seats on the east side which would be beneficial for both FB and soccer and get rid of that 'high school visitor's side' look.

And, maybe, a nice video board replacing the really bad one there.

**Honky Tonk** · July-24-14, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I like the idea. They could add say 1,000 permanent seats on the east side which would be beneficial for both FB and soccer and get rid of that 'high school visitor's side' look. And, maybe, a nice video board replacing the really bad one there.

Good. Then we're in agreement. Steve, get me WSU on the phone!

**cjd** · July-24-14, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I'm glad they're doing great, but you don't know how long the crest will last. Have they approached Wayne State?

I read or heard that they wouldn't consider WSU because of the track that separates the pitch from the stands. They believe that separation will ruin the whole atmosphere and degrade the experience they are trying to create. I can see it in some ways but it seems like a safer bet to give that a go in a larger stadium before trying to finance & build a new single use stadium.

**Honky Tonk** · July-25-14, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by cjd

I read or heard that they wouldn't consider WSU because of the track that separates the pitch from the stands. They believe that separation will ruin the whole atmosphere and degrade the experience they are trying to create. I can see it in some ways but it seems like a safer bet to give that a go in a larger stadium before trying to finance & build a new single use stadium.

My point exactly. This will make the third time pro-soccer has been tried in the Metro-Detroit area in my lifetime. I hope it catches on, but it's fizzled out twice before.

**emu steve** · July-25-14, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by cjd

I read or heard that they wouldn't consider WSU because of the track that separates the pitch from the stands. They believe that separation will ruin the whole atmosphere and degrade the experience they are trying to create. I can see it in some ways but it seems like a safer bet to give that a go in a larger stadium before trying to finance & build a new single use stadium.

If I'm reading Bill Shea's article in Crains correctly, Dan Duggan is thinking big, even for his 5K+ stadium for a USL team.

Apparently he feels that 'just any' stadium [[e.g., re-doing WSU's FB stadium) would hurt the team, and, in the long run, hurt his chances of getting a MLS team.

Apparently spending 5M for stadium to house a USL team + Detroit City FC is a necessary investment which must happen and must succeed before there is the next step, MLS. Kind of like in love, if there is no good dating and engagement, there is no marriage. If the team 'fails' [[or is a mediocre draw at a bad stadium) that kills his grand hopes.

I'm really wondering if Duggan would like to get his hands of some of the excess land that the Ilitches own within the Woodward/Temple/Cass/Fisher footprint. That land has access to the Fisher, M-1 rail, etc. [[most of the land Ilitches need is east of Park).

If not, something further west, perhaps close to the Masonic Temple, near Cass Park???

**Honky Tonk** · July-25-14, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

If I'm reading Bill Shea's article in Crains correctly, Dan Duggan is thinking big, even for his 5K+ stadium for a USL team.

Apparently he feels that 'just any' stadium [[e.g., re-doing WSU's FB stadium) would hurt the team, and, in the long run, hurt his chances of getting a MLS team.

Apparently spending 5M for stadium to house a USL team + Detroit City FC is a necessary investment which must happen and must succeed before there is the next step, MLS. Kind of like in love, if there is no good dating and engagement, there is no marriage. If the team 'fails' [[or is a mediocre draw at a bad stadium) that kills his grand hopes.

I'm really wondering if Duggan would like to get his hands of some of the excess land that the Ilitches own within the Woodward/Temple/Cass/Fisher footprint. That land has access to the Fisher, M-1 rail, etc. [[most of the land Ilitches need is east of Park).

If not, something further west, perhaps close to the Masonic Temple, near Cass Park???

Now that Ilitch has "developed" the area in that end of town, you can bet it'll be sold back to the City for four times it's worth.

**emu steve** · July-26-14, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Now that Ilitch has "developed" the area in that end of town, you can bet it'll be sold back to the City for four times it's worth.

You may have, inadvertently [[?), made an interesting point:

Assume [[Dan) Duggan and associates want to build a 5M stadium, how do they get the land [[assume buy it from Ilitch or others) BUT how does it stadium get built and who owns it?

Could this be entirely privately funded because of the small amount? And privately operated? Taxed as privately owned?

If the public [[i.e., City of Detroit) is involved no way does all of this get done in nine months. How about one year and nine months? Never?

**Goose** · July-18-14, 10:52 PM

its hard to say.. it may be a world cup peak that is sparking the interest in DFC, but then again, they did double their ticket prices from last year and it didn't hurt..... I enjoy it but have only been to half the number of games I went to last year, price sucks.....

**WolverineGirl93** · July-19-14, 02:43 PM

Speaking of Ilitch giving up land I've been hoping for years that he would give up the wasteland behind the Fox, what is ever going to happen with that area now that we know that his new hockey arena isn't being built there? How about the old Tiger Stadium site?

**Mackinaw** · July-19-14, 03:16 PM

I vote for Illitch west-of-Fox wasteland for a single soccer stadium [[make it 10k plus...better for MLS prospects) for both teams. Then I will hope and pray that DCFC remains wildly popular [[much more so than that other franchise) and becomes THE Detroit team that goes on to MLS. I mean, they might as well fold that other BS now and just get behind CITY.

Goose, as you note, the demand is growing steadily, and the games were raucous and well attend last year too. I am not concerned about them falling off.

WolverineGirl, I'd say Tiger Stadium is not an option now that there the RFC out for a mixed use development, which responds better to the residential and commercial trends of Corktown than a stadium [[and the field will be preserved for youth baseball).

**emu steve** · July-19-14, 05:13 PM

I find this sentence interesting:

"Duggan said he did not want to get into specifics about a possible stadium location, but has looked at sites along the Detroit River, Belle Isle and along the proposed M-1 line along Woodward

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz37xG7y1l5

I find the statement 'along the proposed M-1 line...' interesting.

There really isn't sufficient land directly bordering on Woodward. Sorry, Dan, but Ilitch has the biggest chunk.

Are there any parcels of land big enough to build a small soccer stadium say 2 or 3 blocks off or Woodward between downtown and Wayne State other than the obvious ones behind the Fox, near the new arena, etc.?

I'm thinking of land like Park/Cass/Charlotte/Temple? or maybe, Cass, Temple, Ledyard and Cass Park? [[those areas could use building).

**Bham1982** · July-20-14, 01:14 AM

Uh-oh. Likely yet another "regional tax" to support "economic development" under the guise of a subsidy for a billionaire and blighting of the streetscape.

I'm sure the taxpayer funded consultants are busy writing up the report claiming "tens of thousands of jobs created", "billions in spinoff development" and "mixed use neighborhoods".

**emu steve** · July-20-14, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Uh-oh. Likely yet another "regional tax" to support "economic development" under the guise of a subsidy for a billionaire and blighting of the streetscape.

I'm sure the taxpayer funded consultants are busy writing up the report claiming "tens of thousands of jobs created", "billions in spinoff development" and "mixed use neighborhoods".

Yes, get rid of blight with a stadium.

Interesting thing about the cost of a 5K or 20K stadium.

As one might guess, I'm a fan of EMU and the MAC. MAC teams don't play in home stadia like the Big House or Spartan Stadium.

The Akron team [[called the Zips) a few years ago built a beautiful stadium seating around 27K with beautiful press box, loge and club seating, etc. and spent MUCH less than 100M. [[Akron owned their own land - it is on campus.). I'm tempted to say around 75M, but I'll have to look it up.

EDIT: It was only 61M!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfoCis...%93Summa_Field See Structures and Facilities. Also see photos.

A 5K stadium should be a mere fraction of that amount, subject to land cost.

Q: Can Cass Tech play football at their football field? Thought I remember after the new school was built that the area for the football field was too small to have two end zones.

A soccer stadium near Cass could double as a home for Cass Tech.

**Bham1982** · July-20-14, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Yes, get rid of blight with a stadium.

No, the stadium creates the blight.

In Detroit, the deadest downtown blocks those containing Comerica and Ford Field. That isn't a coincidence, and that's why sports arenas are usually put away from intact neighborhoods, because they are so damaging to the streetscape.

The massive parking needs, the huge, monotonous, anti-pedestrian streetfronts, and the fact the blocks are dead 95% of the time pretty much guarantees a moribund neighborhood. Comerica tore down prewar highrises for a parking field.

**emu steve** · July-20-14, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

No, the stadium creates the blight.

In Detroit, the deadest downtown blocks those containing Comerica and Ford Field. That isn't a coincidence, and that's why sports arenas are usually put away from intact neighborhoods, because they are so damaging to the streetscape.

The massive parking needs, the huge, monotonous, anti-pedestrian streetfronts, and the fact the blocks are dead 95% of the time pretty much guarantees a moribund neighborhood. Comerica tore down prewar highrises for a parking field.

NO new parking required for a 5K soccer stadium within the sports and entertainment district and a stadium is more appealing than a 'field of weeds'...

**Downriviera** · July-20-14, 04:59 PM

I would rather forego the 5k stadium and just get a 20k pitch and a MLS team. I was watching the Kansas City vs LA match yesterday. Stands in KC were full, over 20k. If KC and Columbus can support MLS I think Detroit can.

**emu steve** · July-21-14, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

I would rather forego the 5k stadium and just get a 20k pitch and a MLS team. I was watching the Kansas City vs LA match yesterday. Stands in KC were full, over 20k. If KC and Columbus can support MLS I think Detroit can.

Sorry if I'm contradicting what I've been posting [[my wishes aren't Ilitch's wishes) but I believe the Ilitches plan mostly housing for the Western part of the sports and entertainment district. Mostly townhome styled houses????

Based on that, I don't see any soccer stadium, 5K or 20K in the sports and entertainment district.

I think ultimately it would be a mistake [[to have a 5 or 20K stadium outside the sports and entertainment district), but the Ilitches control most of that land and if it doesn't fit their master plan, then that is it...

Now if Christopher is/becomes a soccer fan, it is a 'whole new ball game' [[or match). Pun intended. He could buy into a USL franchise with Duggan and things change greatly.

**Downriviera** · July-22-14, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Sorry if I'm contradicting what I've been posting [[my wishes aren't Ilitch's wishes) but I believe the Ilitches plan mostly housing for the Western part of the sports and entertainment district. Mostly townhome styled houses????

Based on that, I don't see any soccer stadium, 5K or 20K in the sports and entertainment district.

I think ultimately it would be a mistake [[to have a 5 or 20K stadium outside the sports and entertainment district), but the Ilitches control most of that land and if it doesn't fit their master plan, then that is it...

Now if Christopher is/becomes a soccer fan, it is a 'whole new ball game' [[or match). Pun intended. He could buy into a USL franchise with Duggan and things change greatly.

I would love to see a 20k MLS venue in the proposed sports entertainment district. But I do think it could work elsewhere, like the I-275 corridor. Chicago Fire team plays in a burb 13 miles southwest of the loop. I wish the MLS would let us have a team play at Ford Field until a permanent home could be built.

**stasu1213** · July-21-14, 05:16 AM

I feel that a temporary soccer field could be erected that fit the urban feel. Just a basic large field somewhere in the Russell/Forest area where there are wrap around the field bleacher stands with a cover over it, lighting, etc. Something like that baseball field that was once next to the Budd plant near Warren and Conners but on a larger scale

**emu steve** · July-21-14, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I feel that a temporary soccer field could be erected that fit the urban feel. Just a basic large field somewhere in the Russell/Forest area where there are wrap around the field bleacher stands with a cover over it, lighting, etc. Something like that baseball field that was once next to the Budd plant near Warren and Conners but on a larger scale

Urban feel certainly fits for Detroit.

**Mackinaw** · July-21-14, 09:46 AM

I have promoted the idea of a huge recreational facility [[think Randall's Island NYC) with residential component for the former Brewster projects site. It fits the area well and would complement the new residential density of midtown and downtown, and provide a bridge to Eastern Market. Anyhow, perhaps a 5k seat stadium fitting a soccer pitch could go there, and then when we get MLS the stadium would still be useful for high school football or soccer from around the region.

Or just skip this rinky-dink stuff and build a 20k seater and get that MLS club. And did I mention, DCFC should be our MLS club.