Ruh Oh! Grosse Pointe may have built new blockade on Detroit Property!

[Gpwrangler]

I don't think you ever answered why East New York, Brooklyn is more expensive than Birmingham, Michigan. Is it because crime in Birmingham, Michigan is higher than a Brooklyn ghetto?

You lost me.

[Novine]

"Just how does renting a flat pay more in school milage then owning a home, No-Vine? Please, enlighten me in tax structures."


Every real property pays 6 mills in School Education Tax. Those dollars go directly to Lansing, not Grosse Pointe Schools.


Every non-homestead property pays an additional 18 mills in local millage. Those dollars go directly to the Grosse Pointe School District. Homeowners don't pay these additional dollars.


All real properties in the District also pay a variety of millages for "hold harmless", sinking fund and paying off bonds. All of those dollars go to the Grosse Pointe School District.


Every rental property in the Pointes is paying 18 mills to GPS that no homeowner is paying. Renters contribute to those taxes through their rental payments to the landlord. Without those renters, that's a significant amount of money that GPS wouldn't be getting.

[sumas]

Novine, would it be inappropriate to say I love you. Half our life we have been renters, half home owners. Renters do get dissed and I understand that too. We never had issues. We paid our way.

Would like to say that our "wasteland" home in Detroit was appraised for $140K for quick sale and $160 k if we are patient. Not selling, so a bit of a moot point, But is nice to know its value.

Oops keep forgetting that Detroit, its citizens, our property etc have zero value to some on this board.

Cops are out in force so to try speeding up our streets and running lights like we don't matter. You'll get caught.

[poobert]

Is Jim Fouts Mayor of Grosse Pointe Park now? Or are they just going out and having fucking idot sandwiches for breakfast together these days?

To me, Grosse Pointe Park is always a half-inch short of brilliance. It should be one of the most desirable communities in the Midwest. Then they go and do something completely moronic like build a barn in the middle of a commercial thoroughfare in a region with a charged racial and economic history and pretend like it's not big deal.

I have news for them, and for the couple of usual dunces from the peanut gallery: words and actions have meaning. I firmly believe that race has nothing to do with this for the vast majority of people from GPP.

Then what is it? Crime? As others have stated, there is virtually nothing left on the other side of Alter. If anything, crime is going to come from Morningside.

It's a typically Metro Detroit nearly arbitrary urban planning decision. Wall off Detroit because it's Detroit. It isn't really crime, and it isn't really race, it's downright stupidity. There isn't any logical reason for this to happen, and it is now a PR nightmare.

So I can count at least 3 basement-dwellers here with a perpetual suburban-SE-MI hard-on, who are screaming about "Who cares?! GPP can do what they like!"

Sure, but GPP's property values aren't all that great. It's a wonderful community, but doesn't it rather seem that its best days are in the rear-view mirror? So if you are marketing yourself to a global audience, why would you do you DAMNDEST to reinforce the blue-haired, grousing, icy provincial character that has been the stereotype of the Grosse Pointes? And don't you fucking tell me it's not, because I know growing up as a white ethnic that we as well as the minorities had strong feelings about that place.

So embrace it? I just don't get it. Well, you've taken what should have been a wonderful thing [[and what is really a great commercial strip) and sullied it with a shitbomb of malicious nonsense.

Typical Grosse Pointe.

[sumas]

Is Jim Fouts Mayor of Grosse Pointe Park now? Or are they just going out and having fucking idot sandwiches for breakfast together these days?

To me, Grosse Pointe Park is always a half-inch short of brilliance. It should be one of the most desirable communities in the Midwest. Then they go and do something completely moronic like build a barn in the middle of a commercial thoroughfare in a region with a charged racial and economic history and pretend like it's not big deal.

I have news for them, and for the couple of usual dunces from the peanut gallery: words and actions have meaning. I firmly believe that race has nothing to do with this for the vast majority of people from GPP.

Then what is it? Crime? As others have stated, there is virtually nothing left on the other side of Alter. If anything, crime is going to come from Morningside.

It's a typically Metro Detroit nearly arbitrary urban planning decision. Wall off Detroit because it's Detroit. It isn't really crime, and it isn't really race, it's downright stupidity. There isn't any logical reason for this to happen, and it is now a PR nightmare.

So I can count at least 3 basement-dwellers here with a perpetual suburban-SE-MI hard-on, who are screaming about "Who cares?! GPP can do what they like!"

Sure, but GPP's property values aren't all that great. It's a wonderful community, but doesn't it rather seem that its best days are in the rear-view mirror? So if you are marketing yourself to a global audience, why would you do you DAMNDEST to reinforce the blue-haired, grousing, icy provincial character that has been the stereotype of the Grosse Pointes? And don't you fucking tell me it's not, because I know growing up as a white ethnic that we as well as the minorities had strong feelings about that place.

So embrace it? I just don't get it. Well, you've taken what should have been a wonderful thing [[and what is really a great commercial strip) and sullied it with a shitbomb of malicious nonsense.

Typical Grosse Pointe.

You go Poobert. Agree with everything you posted.

[Cliffy]

Novine, would it be inappropriate to say I love you. Half our life we have been renters, half home owners. Renters do get dissed and I understand that too. We never had issues. We paid our way.

Would like to say that our "wasteland" home in Detroit was appraised for $140K for quick sale and $160 k if we are patient. Not selling, so a bit of a moot point, But is nice to know its value.

Oops keep forgetting that Detroit, its citizens, our property etc have zero value to some on this board.

Cops are out in force so to try speeding up our streets and running lights like we don't matter. You'll get caught.

There is no way your house is worth 160k in Detroit judging by all your posts of crackheads, drug dealers, people that you have to feed etc... Either you're lying about your appraisal or lying about your street.

[Goose]

Is Jim Fouts Mayor of Grosse Pointe Park now? Or are they just going out and having fucking idot sandwiches for breakfast together these days?

To me, Grosse Pointe Park is always a half-inch short of brilliance. It should be one of the most desirable communities in the Midwest. Then they go and do something completely moronic like build a barn in the middle of a commercial thoroughfare in a region with a charged racial and economic history and pretend like it's not big deal.

I have news for them, and for the couple of usual dunces from the peanut gallery: words and actions have meaning. I firmly believe that race has nothing to do with this for the vast majority of people from GPP.

Then what is it? Crime? As others have stated, there is virtually nothing left on the other side of Alter. If anything, crime is going to come from Morningside.

It's a typically Metro Detroit nearly arbitrary urban planning decision. Wall off Detroit because it's Detroit. It isn't really crime, and it isn't really race, it's downright stupidity. There isn't any logical reason for this to happen, and it is now a PR nightmare.

So I can count at least 3 basement-dwellers here with a perpetual suburban-SE-MI hard-on, who are screaming about "Who cares?! GPP can do what they like!"

Sure, but GPP's property values aren't all that great. It's a wonderful community, but doesn't it rather seem that its best days are in the rear-view mirror? So if you are marketing yourself to a global audience, why would you do you DAMNDEST to reinforce the blue-haired, grousing, icy provincial character that has been the stereotype of the Grosse Pointes? And don't you fucking tell me it's not, because I know growing up as a white ethnic that we as well as the minorities had strong feelings about that place.

So embrace it? I just don't get it. Well, you've taken what should have been a wonderful thing [[and what is really a great commercial strip) and sullied it with a shitbomb of malicious nonsense.

Typical Grosse Pointe.

I fail to see how creating a walkable area by closing off a street is a negative. Regardless if there is crime in the Detroit area or it's an empty wasteland.. either/or... whatever is there is not the "farmers market in your khackis and pink shirt" type they are trying to attract. The resturaunts in the area are not cheap, they are not soup kitchens... so black/white/green/purple/whatever on the other side of kercheval... its not the demographic they are marketing to...... do you think the average person considering a move into GPP would change their mind because of the farmers market or would they be more inclined to move it.. i say the latter... regardless, you have to be a moron to call this a "barrier"... its not the berlin wall with checkpoints... someone coming from the detroit side can park on the detroit side and walk in or take one of the may other access roads into GPP, stop trying to stir shit up....

[Novine]

Even if you want to dismiss the race/crime angle, it still comes off as a sophomoric attempt at urban design. That's a Farmers Market? What a joke and what idiots build a barn in the middle of a street?

[sumas]

Poobert and Novine I love you both. Cliffey questions my house value which I find funny. Doubt he/she has five bedrooms a basement apartment and a third floor loft/apartment. Then of course there is the beautiful woodwork. Maybe I should mention the leaded glass windows or the built in wine cellar, my spacious yard with a huge dog run, my rebuilt garage which is probably bigger then the trailer he/she lives in.

I try to detail and record events. Trust me I could tell you crack houses,crooks and whores in GPP when I lived there. I needed medicinal marijuana for a dieing friend, all I needed to do was go to a GP high schooler to score. Don't assume that any burb is any different then my neighborhood. I am simply observant and I actually really did like GPP.

[sumas]

Actually Cliffey... forgot to mention my glazed brick work and fantastic porch which many forumers have parked butts on. Great neighbors, great homes, great hood. Forgot to mention our resident ghost.

I truly find beauty and friendship wherever we lived. Want me to detail sordid facts about burbs we lived in I can supply that info too.

I've decided I like that wall. Keeps racists out of my neighborhood.

[Bham1982]

I don't think you ever answered why East New York, Brooklyn is more expensive than Birmingham, Michigan. Is it because crime in Birmingham, Michigan is higher than a Brooklyn ghetto?

Talk about your off-topic and irrelevent comments.

I don't know if East NY is more expensive than Birmingham, but it may make sense on a per square foot basis.

NYC, generally speaking, is expensive and desirable, and Detroit, generally speaking isn't, so even less desirable parts of NYC are often more expensive than more desirable parts of Detroit.

And East NY, by Detroit city standards, would be like Bloomfield Hills. No neighborhood in Detroit city proper has remotely similar qualities as East NY. There is no growing neighborhood with lots of immigrants, high housing demand, thriving retail, etc.

[bailey]

It's a typically Metro Detroit nearly arbitrary urban planning decision. Wall off Detroit because it's Detroit. It isn't really crime, and it isn't really race, it's downright stupidity. There isn't any logical reason for this to happen, and it is now a PR nightmare.

PR nightmare? really? where? Muckraker and some posts in comment sections on the interwebs?
The biggest controversy is the somewhat blah nature of the barns. But IIRC, they aren't meant to be permanent.

Sure, but GPP's property values aren't all that great. It's a wonderful community, but doesn't it rather seem that its best days are in the rear-view mirror?

Pretty sure, like "detroit is just about to turn the corner", I've been hearing "GP is dead, get out while you can" since before I left in the 90s.

But yeah, to your point... its days of being out of reach for most mere mortals probably ended in the 70s/80s when the big old barns of the Dodges et al started to come down. Now the REAL money secludes itself in Franklin and other communities FAR more closed to outsiders than GP ever was.

So if you are marketing yourself to a global audience, why would you do you DAMNDEST to reinforce the blue-haired, grousing, icy provincial character that has been the stereotype of the Grosse Pointes?

And that like most stereotypes is a worn out trope that get repeated by the ignorant.

And don't you fucking tell me it's not, because I know growing up as a white ethnic that we as well as the minorities had strong feelings about that place.

which is of course founded on 40 year old sterotypes... put on your big boy pants and take a drive around... its a lot younger and more diverse than it's been in my memory, especially GPP. Its not a Benneton ad, but it sure as shit isn't Hubbard's Livonia either.

So embrace it? I just don't get it. Well, you've taken what should have been a wonderful thing [[and what is really a great commercial strip) and sullied it with a shitbomb of malicious nonsense.

Sullied? Maybe. Remains to be seen. However, that "great commercial strip" was struggling and the people with skin in the game on that strip want this to happen... I'll let them take the drivers seat on this.

Typical Grosse Pointe.

Yup... being responsive to its citizens, continually looking for ways to improve the area, and generally being a really nice place to live. I mean after you get used to the klan rallies and all the burning crosses that is.

[Hermod]

it sure as shit isn't Hubbard's Livonia either.

Orville Hubbard was the mayor of Dearborn back in the day.

[iheartthed]

And East NY, by Detroit city standards, would be like Bloomfield Hills. No neighborhood in Detroit city proper has remotely similar qualities as East NY. There is no growing neighborhood with lots of immigrants, high housing demand, thriving retail, etc.

I never compared ENY to Detroit. I'm just pointing out that ENY is more expensive than Birmingham. But since you seem to believe that crime rates alone is what makes Detroit neighborhoods cheaper than GPP neighborhoods, then what exactly makes ENY more expensive than Bham [[or GPP for that matter). ENY has socioeconomic demographics that are way more like Detroit than to either Birmingham or GPP.

[Bham1982]

But since you seem to believe that crime rates alone is what makes Detroit neighborhoods cheaper than GPP neighborhoods,

I never wrote such a thing.

If Detroit neighborhood crime magically became equivalent to those of the Pointes there would still be issues [[schools, blight, subpar services, property taxes, income taxes, neighborhood conditions, etc.) that would keep property values low relative to that of the Pointes.

[iheartthed]

I never wrote such a thing.

If Detroit neighborhood crime magically became equivalent to those of the Pointes there would still be issues [[schools, blight, subpar services, property taxes, income taxes, neighborhood conditions, etc.) that would keep property values low relative to that of the Pointes.

Mmmhmm....

But no, "crime happens everywhere" is quite obviously false. There are absolutely dramatic differences based on location, which is the entire reason why the Pointes are very desirable and one block away is a complete wasteland, where land is essentially worthless.

[Goose]

I never wrote such a thing.

If Detroit neighborhood crime magically became equivalent to those of the Pointes there would still be issues [[schools, blight, subpar services, property taxes, income taxes, neighborhood conditions, etc.) that would keep property values low relative to that of the Pointes.

subpar services, crap schools, income taxes, blight doesn't spill over in thieves rolling down Kercheval looking to grab some freebies... crime does......

[motz]

subpar services, crap schools, income taxes, blight doesn't spill over in thieves rolling down Kercheval looking to grab some freebies... crime does......

And thank god that Home Depot sells those Home Deport Crime Deterrent Pre-Made Barns®! Without those Home Depot Crime Deterrent Pre-Made Barns®, you better bet that all of that crime would spill right over into GPP and the place would become a hell hole!

[TennisAndMath]

Why do some Detroiters care so much about the Pointes and their land use decisions?

If you don't like the Pointes, don't go there.

Hit the nail on the head.

[Goose]

And thank god that Home Depot sells those Home Deport Crime Deterrent Pre-Made Barns®! Without those Home Depot Crime Deterrent Pre-Made Barns®, you better bet that all of that crime would spill right over into GPP and the place would become a hell hole!

WRONG, those barns are perfectly aligned with the sun/stars and the polar magnetic fields to affect the black mind only, confusing them, disorienting them, blocking access to Grosse Pointe...

maybe they built it for farmers market sake, to have a walkable cul-de-sac....

if it won't keep out crime, then why would it keep out black people? im confused...

[Mackinaw]

To me, Grosse Pointe Park is always a half-inch short of brilliance. It should be one of the most desirable communities in the Midwest. Then they go and do something completely moronic like build a barn in the middle of a commercial thoroughfare in a region with a charged racial and economic history and pretend like it's not big deal.

Amen, Amen, Amen. As a native, I could not agree more. The idiocy, both in reality and in perception, of this barn is beyond even my worst notion of the stupidest elements in GP. Applause that they want a walkable downtown. Perpetual boooos for the fact that they thought closing off the street and building a barn would accomplish that. And continued boos for the terrible, forbidding image that their residents, many of them nice old limousine liberals and even some salt of the earth blue collars, now are saddled with. I hope the citizens somehow rise up. And I also hope that the GPWoods graffiti tagging girls that got Dan Gilbert will come down and hit this barn HARD some night after their sentence is served.

[jerrytimes]

Detroit has much more to worry about than this.

[Bham1982]

Mmmhmm....

I have no idea what you're arguing, but yes, crime is the reason that the East Side of Detroit is a wasteland. That doesn't mean that crime is the only issue troubling Detroit.

[iheartthed]

I have no idea what you're arguing, but yes, crime is the reason that the East Side of Detroit is a wasteland. That doesn't mean that crime is the only issue troubling Detroit.

Don't tell us that you haven't quite grasped the fundamentals of the English language. When you say something is "the entire reason" then that means it is the single explanation, the sole cause... the ENTIRE REASON!

But no, "crime happens everywhere" is quite obviously false. There are absolutely dramatic differences based on location, which is the entire reason why the Pointes are very desirable and one block away is a complete wasteland, where land is essentially worthless.

That you would make such an absolute statement and then instantly be unable to defend it means... Well, it probably means that even bothering to respond to you is a waste of my fucking time. But I find this amusing, so whatevs.

[TennisAndMath]

Non-GPP residents debating and concerned with this have entirely too much time on their hands. I'm sure there are plenty of programs and initiatives in the City of Detroit that would allow you to use your time more wisely.