Ruh Oh! Grosse Pointe may have built new blockade on Detroit Property!

[bailey]

Originally Posted by bailey
And if anyone is boycotting anything.... they are doing it wrong, because Atwater and the rest are packed every night and there are more people on bikes around there than I've seen ever. [[which is really annoying when trying to get in and out there in a car. Someone is getting hit... soon)

Either you just threatened to hit bicyclists or you just overlooked a negative aspect of this stupid project. If the closure of Kercheval and the "improved walkability" is going to make asshole drivers feel a need to run over pedestrians/bicyclists, then it's not really a good idea is it?

Actually the comment was about oblivious bicyclists ignoring traffic laws and, in doing so, causing themselves to be hit by a car... I understand as a hipster you are required to ride a fixie, but it's a stop sign, it counts for you too with or without gears. and that goes double for the idiot on a 15 foot tallbike.

[Mackinaw]

Bailey, while the Korte closure had similar symbolic issues, it was likely never revisited because it is an insignificant street on a peninsula, not the town square and thoroughfare. They should reopen Korte though, why not?

There is a clear lack of new blood leading GPP. Some talented, dedicated, new people need to step up next November. http://www.grossepointepark.org/inde...ouncil-members

[bailey]

Bailey, while the Korte closure had similar symbolic issues, it was likely never revisited because it is an insignificant street on a peninsula, not the town square and thoroughfare. They should reopen Korte though, why not?

There is a clear lack of new blood leading GPP. Some talented, dedicated, new people need to step up next November. http://www.grossepointepark.org/inde...ouncil-members

The newest, youngest blood on the council supports the measure.

The market “will make the whole area more attractive for all,” Councilman Daniel C. Grano told us. “We are moving our farmers market down there to draw folks down to use the whole commercial district and expanding days to offer fresh farm produce to the area more regularly.”

the newest blood had this to say about the failure of the Pot Initiative to make the ballot due to a technicality:

The news came as a welcome surprise to City Councilwoman Laurie Arora.

“I’m very relieved. This isn’t what I want our community to be known for,” Arora said.

this is why i tend to react with incredulity when it's claimed GPP is "progressive".

[jt1]

The newest and youngest blood on the council support the measure.

Further the youngest and newest blood had this to say about the failure of the Pot Initiative to make the ballot due to a technicality:

Seems contradictory: If they really want the farmer's market to excel they should push the pot initiative. Nothing increases food sales like having a punch of stoned people around

[Gpwrangler]

It is a defense mechanism to blame criticism for poor choices on over-sensitive outsiders who are out to get GPP. I, being from GP, know full well about people who overdramatize race issues and really treat GP unfairly and lose sight of the fact that it is not a bunch of rich, hateful people, but really a more open-minded suburb for metro Detroit. But this is different. This is targeted, I say warranted, criticism on multiple fronts. And you need to come to terms with the fact that it is from within, too, for a bunch of good reasons set forth ad nauseum on this thread.

It's where my family is from, it's where I used to be from and would like to return, and it makes all of us cringe. You know what all this is, if nothing else-- needless. A needless "urban revitalization" measure-- which doesn't accomplish much-- and a needless source of controversy which should have been seen from a mile away by anyone with a brain. It's on a border which for right and wrong has been the source of undue attention. This wasn't gonna slip under the radar; moreover, I think it disrupts resident's daily routine. There is so little good, and quite a bit bad, and a TON of pointlessness behind this fiasco. At the end of the day, it shows that the leaders are some combination of out-of-touch, out of their league [[when it comes to urban planning), and perhaps a bit antogonistics [[look at Heenan's quotes in the Freep). That is no way to govern.

GPwrangler, the someone who supported it was likely the elected officials and a handful of merchants who were promised that this would be good for business and probably thought it would be executed with more grace [[and less controversy, they surely hoped). It wasn't some grassroots effort. It was passed, surely, at a meeting with little attendance. People are naturally reactionary. As a native, I totally understand what's happening now. People sat on their hands, but now they are taking account of how disruptive it is. It's a genteel town that doesn't want the spotlight. And it's a town that hopes for better things for Detroit. A "notable" amount of people will now express one of several reasons to be opposed to this, and eventually, it will be removed.

not it gonna be removed if I and my neighbors have anything to say. I don't care what they do with the barns but the traffic circle is a good thing. We need more.

[Gpwrangler]

It is a defense mechanism to blame criticism for poor choices on over-sensitive outsiders who are out to get GPP. I, being from GP, know full well about people who overdramatize race issues and really treat GP unfairly and lose sight of the fact that it is not a bunch of rich, hateful people, but really a more open-minded suburb for metro Detroit. But this is different. This is targeted, I say warranted, criticism on multiple fronts. And you need to come to terms with the fact that it is from within, too, for a bunch of good reasons set forth ad nauseum on this thread.

It's where my family is from, it's where I used to be from and would like to return, and it makes all of us cringe. You know what all this is, if nothing else-- needless. A needless "urban revitalization" measure-- which doesn't accomplish much-- and a needless source of controversy which should have been seen from a mile away by anyone with a brain. It's on a border which for right and wrong has been the source of undue attention. This wasn't gonna slip under the radar; moreover, I think it disrupts resident's daily routine. There is so little good, and quite a bit bad, and a TON of pointlessness behind this fiasco. At the end of the day, it shows that the leaders are some combination of out-of-touch, out of their league [[when it comes to urban planning), and perhaps a bit antogonistics [[look at Heenan's quotes in the Freep). That is no way to govern.

GPwrangler, the someone who supported it was likely the elected officials and a handful of merchants who were promised that this would be good for business and probably thought it would be executed with more grace [[and less controversy, they surely hoped). It wasn't some grassroots effort. It was passed, surely, at a meeting with little attendance. People are naturally reactionary. As a native, I totally understand what's happening now. People sat on their hands, but now they are taking account of how disruptive it is. It's a genteel town that doesn't want the spotlight. And it's a town that hopes for better things for Detroit. A "notable" amount of people will now express one of several reasons to be opposed to this, and eventually, it will be removed.

Don't kid yourself. It has lots of support from people who live here now. A few complainers are not going to change that.

[jt1]

not it gonna be removed if I and my neighbors have anything to say. I don't care what they do with the barns but the traffic circle is a good thing. We need more.

I think that is the middle ground. I doubt anyone would have issues with the traffice circle. That is just a means to slow down traffic. The barn is the issue.

With the way people drive in SE Michigan, traffic circles and roubaouts are a good thing.

[Gpwrangler]

I have a recommendation for all sides if there are hurt feelings:

1. GP keep this abortion of a shed. If it is a concern about crime, etc that is fine
2. Detroit acknowledge that crime needs to come down and start enforcing all laws. They can specifically focus on the GP residents that work downtown and drive through Mack and Jefferson like complete assholes [[then slow to the speed limit once they cross into GP). Hell, the ticket revenue alone could fund a dozen officers. Assign two to Jefferson and the other 10 elsewhere in the community.

Everyone slows to the speed limit in GP because they know we have cops watching the thoroughfares. Show me some data and I will believe most of the asshole drivers live in grosse pointe. They are everywhere.

We can only hope Detroit can get its crime under control to the point the cops can start enforcing traffic laws and not piss away or "lose" all the ticket money. I love Detroit but passed up the chance to buy there because 45 minutes is too long to wait for the cops to show up.

[TKshreve]

Everyone slows to the speed limit in GP because they know we have cops watching the thoroughfares. Show me some data and I will believe most of the asshole drivers live in grosse pointe. They are everywhere.

We can only hope Detroit can get its crime under control to the point the cops can start enforcing traffic laws and not piss away or "lose" all the ticket money. I love Detroit but passed up the chance to buy there because 45 minutes is too long to wait for the cops to show up.

Maybe they should start enforcing laws on drivers who do not purchase car insurance. Oh, but that wouldn't necessarily target Grosse Pointers, would it? GPWrangler, that had to be one of the most asinine posts you picked to reply to. There's better debate to be had than that.

[Honky Tonk]

Everyone slows to the speed limit in GP because they know we have cops watching the thoroughfares. Show me some data and I will believe most of the asshole drivers live in grosse pointe. They are everywhere.

We can only hope Detroit can get its crime under control to the point the cops can start enforcing traffic laws and not piss away or "lose" all the ticket money. I love Detroit but passed up the chance to buy there because 45 minutes is too long to wait for the cops to show up.

I don't have data, but I can give you a visual. Grab your lawnchair, an Arizona iced tea, [[maybe a handful of quarters to hand out) and park yourself on E. Jefferson around what they call the Gold Coast area, anywhere from 4-6 p.m., daily. It's unbelievable watching the Pointers high-tail it home. It's not just the high speed, it's weaving in and out of lanes, including parking lanes. Running red lights. All while texin'. Total disregard and respect for the people or area around them. Once they hit Alter, back down to 35 mph Sunday driving. Detroit wouldn't need to file bankruptcy if the DPD would take the time to ticket and collect fines from those people.

[motz]

I'm going to ignore most of what you said because you're doing the "You're wrong because of my anecdotal experiences" thing that lots of people seem to do when defending their stance. I will object to this though:

And if anyone is boycotting anything.... they are doing it wrong, because Atwater and the rest are packed every night and there are more people on bikes around there than I've seen ever. [[which is really annoying when trying to get in and out there in a car. Someone is getting hit... soon)

Did Atwater build a barn in the middle of the street? No, they did not. Supporting a local, DETROIT BASED BUSINESS, is not the same as supporting some ugly barns that were plopped down in the middle of the street. Atwater opened a legitimate location that was approved through all of the regular channels, not the "Councilman Guy McGuyston said it was okay because he might have asked someone" process that appears to have been used for the barns.

Stop trying getting so defensive that some people might object to negative publicity against the city. It's been a topic amongst not just us here, but people I know who either don't like or don't read DYes. It's something people are talking about on multiple levels, and it generally is not positive. That's called "negative publicity".

[Gpwrangler]

I don't have data, but I can give you a visual. Grab your lawnchair, an Arizona iced tea, [[maybe a handful of quarters to hand out) and park yourself on E. Jefferson around what they call the Gold Coast area, anywhere from 4-6 p.m., daily. It's unbelievable watching the Pointers high-tail it home. It's not just the high speed, it's weaving in and out of lanes, including parking lanes. Running red lights. All while texin'. Total disregard and respect for the people or area around them. Once they hit Alter, back down to 35 mph Sunday driving. Detroit wouldn't need to file bankruptcy if the DPD would take the time to ticket and collect fines from those people.

What did I miss? How can you tell they're all Pointe residents? Doesn't Jefferson go all the way to Mt Clemens?

Guess what? When people see police cars they behave. You proved my point. Want to see who drives like shit? I've got a few other spots we can sit and drink iced tea.

[Honky Tonk]

What did I miss? How can you tell they're all Pointe residents? Doesn't Jefferson go all the way to Mt Clemens?

Guess what? When people see police cars they behave. You proved my point. Want to see who drives like shit? I've got a few other spots we can sit and drink iced tea.

Do I need to bring a handful of quarters. I know their from GP-5, because if I happen to be going to GP @ that time, most of them make lefts somewhere along E. Jefferson.

[TKshreve]

Do I need to bring a handful of quarters. I know their from GP-5, because if I happen to be going to GP @ that time, most of them make lefts somewhere along E. Jefferson.

And guess what? People will continue to do that until a deterrent is introduced. Just like drug dealers will continue to ply their trade in the open air until ..... and just like people in Detroit will continue to not purchase car insurance until........ and just like young thugs will continue to test the limits of the Detroit judicial system until.......

And HT..... can ask you a legitimate question about your experience along the Jeff corridor. You seem to suggest you know it well. I happen to know it quite well as I've been running that stretch for 36 solid years. If this reckless driving is as big of a concern as a few here lead on about, how come I rarely, if but once a year see any semblance of a significant car accident along this stretch? I'm talking all the way down to the CBD too.

[Goose]

Do I need to bring a handful of quarters. I know their from GP-5, because if I happen to be going to GP @ that time, most of them make lefts somewhere along E. Jefferson.

oh, definantly GPers.. because if you do sit down and watch with your Arizona Iced Tea [[btw - probably a racist/stereotype drink, wasn't that what Trayvon had?)... anyway, and watch the traffic, ALL the traffic coming the opposite direction, out of GP on Jefferson into Detroit..... are very orderly, at or below the speed limit, follow the center of the road, stop at all yellow, use turn signals, and have all necessary paperwork and lights on their cars functioning properly........

[Gpwrangler]

Do I need to bring a handful of quarters. I know their from GP-5, because if I happen to be going to GP @ that time, most of them make lefts somewhere along E. Jefferson.

Well if you followed all those cars and they all went to GP, you are right. All drivers in GP are assholes. I never argue with solid data.

[Gpwrangler]

By the way, kerchieval is packed tonight and the only speeding vehicle I saw was the damn bus.

[animatedmartian]

Whoops. Turns out GPP's farmer's shed [[aka the iron curtain to Detroit) actually crosses the city boundary by about six inches. Also, Detroit is going to contest that the shed is a traffic hazard since traffic can't flow smoothly around the shed.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014073...troit-boundary

[Gpwrangler]

Whoops. Turns out GPP's farmer's shed [[aka the iron curtain to Detroit) actually crosses the city boundary by about six inches. Also, Detroit is going to contest that the shed is a traffic hazard since traffic can't flow smoothly around the shed.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014073...troit-boundary

Wow that's brilliant. Traffic can't flow through a closed street. Maybe Detroit should stick to getting its streetlights working and quit pissing away money sending surveyors to defend $100 worth of property.

[animatedmartian]

Wow that's brilliant. Traffic can't flow through a closed street. Maybe Detroit should stick to getting its streetlights working and quit pissing away money sending surveyors to defend $100 worth of property.

GPP said they weren't closing the street.

City Manager Dale Krajniak said the Park isn’t closing Kercheval at the Detroit border, but it is creating a roundabout at Wayburn and Kercheval to create a decorative traffic island for the new market stalls, which at press time were under construction by city staffers to save costs. He said the market stalls would be installed adjacent to the roundabout island. The island will feature a decorative boat sculpture that’s being paid for by an anonymous private donor and the nonprofit Grosse Pointe Park Foundation, he said. That project was approved by the foundation last year.

http://www.candgnews.com/news/west-p...clude-weekdays

Driving through parking lots and alleyways doesn't count as a thoroughfare. By GPP's own logic, if it's not a closed street, then it's literally a traffic hazard that people have to now reroute themselves around.

[bailey]

Whoops. Turns out GPP's farmer's shed [[aka the iron curtain to Detroit) actually crosses the city boundary by about six inches. Also, Detroit is going to contest that the shed is a traffic hazard since traffic can't flow smoothly around the shed.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014073...troit-boundary

Actually... clearly stated within the article you posted the sheds are not in Detroit

The markings in pink paint left by Detroit’s surveyors seem to show that, although the shed is on the suburb’s side, about half a foot of a new concrete curb that runs from one side of Kercheval to the other is on the Detroit side.

GP should charge Detroit for the improvement to its street.

[bailey]

GPP said they weren't closing the street.


http://www.candgnews.com/news/west-p...clude-weekdays

Driving through parking lots and alleyways doesn't count as a thoroughfare. By GPP's own logic, if it's not a closed street, then it's literally a traffic hazard that people have to now reroute themselves around.

It will be interesting to see what standing Detroit has to sue over a "hazard" created outside its municipal boundary. What if GP closes it at Lakepointe as originally planned and closed the whole strip to vehicle traffic?

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

I'll Huff and I'll Puff and I'll bloooooooooow the shed down.......or at least a few inches

[motz]

It will be interesting to see what standing Detroit has to sue over a "hazard" created outside its municipal boundary. What if GP closes it at Lakepointe as originally planned and closed the whole strip to vehicle traffic?

So if I tear up part of your driveway, which is legally your property, to put in some flower beds, that's totally cool because Detroit reasons GPP is Great? Your absolute adherence to defending what is obviously Detroit-level planning idiocy, as well as amazingly tacky design choices, amazes me. I normally either agree with you, or can totally see where you are coming from... But it is becoming more and more clear that GPP rushed this project through, didn't consult their neighbor [[which I was taught as a child that you should do, as A Good Human Being, even if your neighbor is trash) and did not consider any implications beyond "We make street pretty so much walkable great success for city!!".

And anyone who says Detroit should "focus on their streetlights and blah blah blah", Detroit has departments within their governmental structure that are specifically tasked with investigating issues such as these. To say that Detroit shouldn't pay attention to things like this is, in my opinion, wrong. If Detroit doesn't investigate this issue, it'd be setting an example that says "Yeah, we really don't care about these kinds of things", and lord only knows that'd mean LBP would build a Berlin wall on the median of 8 Mile.

[Honky Tonk]

GP should charge Detroit for the improvement to its street.

Nice........