How many "yuppies" have actually moved to Detroit the past couple of years?

[nain rouge]

On a related topic, here's a FUN chart: http://cdn.theatlantic.com/newsroom/.../7ba2090f9.png

[nain rouge]

I looked up 48201 - which covers most of what we'd call Midtown - in the Census Bureau fact finder, and there was a drop of about 1,000 people from the 2010 population to the 2012 population as estimated by the government's American Community Survey. 48202, which covers the northern tip of Midtown, New Center, and Boston-Edison held steady from 2010-2012. Downtown, 48226, also held steady. [[Technically, both 48202 and 48226 lost population in the 2012 estimate, but we're talking inconsequentially small numbers.)

[Danny]

I looked up 48201 - which covers most of what we'd call Midtown - in the Census Bureau fact finder, and there was a drop of about 1,000 people from the 2010 population to the 2012 population as estimated by the government's American Community Survey. 48202, which covers the northern tip of Midtown, New Center, and Boston-Edison held steady from 2010-2012. Downtown, 48226, also held steady. [[Technically, both 48202 and 48226 lost population in the 2012 estimate, but we're talking inconsequentially small numbers.)

According the 2010 NY Times census block tract. The area around I-94 FWY to W. Forest St. and west of Woodward Ave and East of Lodge FWY. has 41% of whites. up from 30% since 2000. That's in the Wayne State University Campus [[ where I used to live.) Now it's about 44% of whites. The west side of Downtown [[Gilberttown) Detroit west of Woodward Ave. to I-75 FWY from the Detroit River and east of Lodge FWY has 35% of whites. Thanks to sudden regional explosion from Dan Gilbert and his business ventures, Downtown [[ Gilberttown) Detroit has about 40% of whites By 2020, 55% of whites [[yuppies) will occupy half of Downtown [[Gilberttown) Detroit. Right now Detroit's white population now stands at 13% up from 11% from 2010. This is a good sign. But middle class white families are not yet ready to occupy its ghetto hoods until the riff-raffs leave. Young professionals [[ especially white people) are moving in fancier apts, super lofts and mega condos from Downtown [[Gilberttown) Detroit to Midtown areas. One by one they will move in set up shop, work, grab their mocha and cappuccino and head to school or work. After they get married and have the second baby, they will move out of the city and into the suburbs far, far away. Then the cycle will continue all over again.

[Novine]

"BTW, in the 2010 census, the downtown/midtown census tracts actually saw a sizable net loss of people."

Not true. If you look at the NY Times Census tool for downtown and midtown tracts, you see a number of tracts that saw significant percentage increases in population. You also saw some tracts lose significant population percentage-wise. It's a mixed bag but the numbers don't back up a claim of a significant population loss in those areas.

[313WX]

"BTW, in the 2010 census, the downtown/midtown census tracts actually saw a sizable net loss of people."

Not true. If you look at the NY Times Census tool for downtown and midtown tracts, you see a number of tracts that saw significant percentage increases in population. You also saw some tracts lose significant population percentage-wise. It's a mixed bag but the numbers don't back up a claim of a significant population loss in those areas.

As a whole, it was a net population loss.

[animatedmartian]

As a whole, it was a net population loss.

But it wasn't yuppie lost. Don't forget that the Brewster Projects were closed in 2008. That could have been 1,000 people by itself.

However, lets assume all those 1000 BP residents made less than $10,000 a year, you'd only need 250 yuppies making $40,000 a year to make up the loss in resident incomes. So while the population numeric seem negative, economically it all probably cancels out which is usually the case in gentrification.

[Hypestyles]

Detroit needs more "home grown" yuppies- urban Detroit raised, college educated [[wherever that is), and feeling energized/compelled to make a go of things in the core city.

[corktownyuppie]

Detroit needs more "home grown" yuppies- urban Detroit raised, college educated [[wherever that is), and feeling energized/compelled to make a go of things in the core city.

I am one of those homegrown, urban-Detroit yuppies that have moved back. I would agree that we need more of the same. And simultaneously, I would say that Detroit doesn't exactly welcome us with open arms. It's complicated, I guess.

[313WX]

I am one of those homegrown, urban-Detroit yuppies that have moved back. I would agree that we need more of the same. And simultaneously, I would say that Detroit doesn't exactly welcome us with open arms. It's complicated, I guess.

Mackinaw made a good point above about the bolded:

If people move to Detroit trying to really dig in and be Detroiters, not just people existing in a place for the sake of trendiness, I think we'll be much better off.

For example, there was some event recently in which people who are a part of the demographic discussed in this thread described Detroit as a blank canvas. And while I'm sure they had no malicious intent, it does highlight the strong disconnect many Yuppie newcomers have from long time Detroit residents.

While not referring to you specifically, there are some in your demographic [[and even on this forum) who act as if there isn't more to Detroit beyond downtown/midtown, and that flakiness rightfully rubs many Detroiters who've had to survive these rough conditions for decades the wrong way.

So what I'm trying to basically say is give it time. Considering how much despair Detroiters have faced throughout the years, anyone who claims they come in to help or become a part of the city with good intentions will automatically get the side eye until they walk the walk.

[sumas]

I am one of those homegrown, urban-Detroit yuppies that have moved back. I would agree that we need more of the same. And simultaneously, I would say that Detroit doesn't exactly welcome us with open arms. It's complicated, I guess.

Welcome back and yes I agree Detroit is sometimes non embracive. My two sons are back, one now a homeowner in EEV and one in Midtown. We have 3 "communes" in our near downtown area and most are charming. Some stay, some leave after a year or so. All contribute to community while here. No issues with me.

You are right to claim living in Detroit can be complicated. It is not for everyone. I can brag or bitch on any given day about life in my hood.

Still, I love my home, my neighbors and Detroit.

[Lowell]

Furthermore, do these people actually stay put, or are they bolting after a year or two?

This will be the case anywhere. I recall reading somewhere in the past that up to a third of the immigrants to America returned to their home countries.

A lot of yuppies [surprised that now aged term is still used] will not have stable jobs, being new and inexperienced to the job market, and will move on to other cities or back home.

The rental occupancy in the 7.2 [97% I heard], the rising rates and appearance of significant new construction and renovation paint a clearer picture. Anecdotally for old-timers like me, the visible activity and pedestrian traffic is day-and-night different than even 10 years ago.

Things are clearly on the upswing, perceptions of public safety are increasing and, let's just face it, the area has all the excitement, culture and 'coolness' that the that those barren confederations of subdivisions and strip malls called suburbs lack.

[jhnbonham]

Having lived in Midtown since 2005, I can attest how obvious the difference in population is now compared to 2005. Even compared to 2010, the difference is blatant.

However most renters I believe have not officially changed their address. I do not know statistics on this, or have any real numbers to back this up, but from what I have seen it seems this is true. I have met many people who live in the area but their driver's license still says a suburb or even a different state.

One would have to assume this is an issue common to areas high in younger renters, people who may be referred to as young-urban-professionals. Though these cities may be better equipped to handle this in accounting their populations; cities such as Chicago, a popular place for young Michiganders to relocate to.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Not Yuppies but rather Mid-town Hipster's, so your talking about a 25-35ish demographic who finally moved out of Mom and Dads house to go have a social adventure in Mid-town or take your communion money and open up a boutique store after all those years of living rent free with the rents [[mom & dad). I don't think many of these folks stay longer 3-5 years, once baby makes three or the social adventure of loft living loses it hipness its back to 27 mile road or its equivalent. I think these folks serve a good purpose in adding new plasma to the area potentially helping the spread of healthy growth beyond mid-towns environs. If you want real sustained growth you need people raising families to stay in one place for a generation although I think that type of existence just may be in the history books, but theres always hope.

[dtowncitylover]

...of course much of the neighborhoods our parents and grandparents grew up in are now gone and until we have a steady influx of people and the building of new housing and development in those places, we are unlikely to see them again.

[Mackinaw]

Dude, E.P.3, how about YOU search the internets and write letters to researchers asking them for the latest data. If not, you'll have to wait for census 2020 and scrutinize it yourself, using your big big brain. For now, look at census 2010 v. 2000 and note how much more stable the overall population was in downtown/midtown v. the whole rest of the city.

BETTER STILL, pending the studies you so anxiously await [[and I really don't care that you have to wait, because you're NOT a developer or apparently doing anything productive with this knowledge), how about you go use your eyes and ears for proof? Go to Campus Martius on a weekday evening or a watering hold on Cass or Second Aves on some night and start asking folks where they live and how long they've been there. Ask them what they do for a living and check off a little box indicating their skin color, if you must. All I can think in reading through this sad little thread is how little you must get out. Don't blame your fellow forumers for that!

[Jason]

It doesn't matter what anyone says or what numbers anyone finds. He thinks all the major newspapers where you might find these numbers are biased.

Obviously if some non profit or government agency produces some numbers those will be biased sources too.

And the crushingly obvious truth that since the last census there's been a population increase isn't convincing to him [[quickly rising rents despite 100s+ of new units being created, etc.) it's because he doesn't want it to be true.

If a census had been done and new numbers were released today that showed an increase he'd think of some reason for them to be "biased".

[gvidas]

Here's some hard, albeit narrow, data on the tendency of young kids to move downtown but keep their official address in the burbs.

http://bridgemi.com/2013/03/auto-rat...s-into-hiding/

Alok Sharma analyzes data for a living. In 2010, he had a client, a politician, who was running for office and wanted to know if it was worth his time to campaign door-to-door in Detroit’s high-rise apartment buildings. Sharma thought the answer might be found by running a high-rise address through the Qualified Voter File, a public document of every registered voter in Michigan. He chose his own: the Kales Building, with 18 floors overlooking Grand Circus Park and 116 one- and two-bedroom apartments.

It is, Sharma said, full of young professionals like him, as well as empty-nesters — just the type of middle-class people who are likely to be engaged, active voters. When Sharma looked, the building was fully occupied.

Yet he found only nine names in the Qualified Voter File – counting his own.

For those keeping score at home, 9 registered voters out of 116 apartments is 7.75%. The percentage goes even lower if you factor in the two bedroom apartments. Statewide, in 2012, 97.8% of voting-age individuals were registered to vote.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Furthermore, do these people actually stay put, or are they bolting after a year or two? Anecdotal, but a few kids from my church tried the city and left after a frustrating 12 months. So, how many people are actually moving to these prime neighborhoods?

Are there any men or women in your church that tried the city or are they all "kids", that may explain the spinning wheel in this thread.

[Novine]

"I see a lot of people reference this Midtown/downtown/corktown uptick, but the census data doesn't show any uptick in Detroit. "

The original premise has already been debunked. Go look at the Census numbers and see the tracts where the 2010 Census showed population growth. Then get your lazy self over to the Census web site and drill down into the numbers. They don't have a category for "yuppies" but you can get income and age breakdowns for these areas. Then come back here and report what you've found, if that's not too difficult for you to handle.

[Lowell]

Some folks just can't abide that the heart and core of Detroit is rebounding vigorously. They flat out hate Detroit [I have strong suspicions as to why] and it enrages them to see it succeed.

Young people wanting to escape the stifling boredom of their comfortable suburban settings for gritty urban living and culture completely flummoxes them and brings out the deepest of THEIR insecurities. They can't understand how someone would trade some security to preserve one's sanity and be able to grow.

They refuse to accept realities, demand statistics [never providing any themselves], insult those who disagree with them and, of course, rarely venture to find out anything for themselves.

They are scared and think everyone else should be, especially their children who are embarrassed by them and can't wait to get away from them.

[jhnbonham]

Some folks just can't abide that the heart and core of Detroit is rebounding vigorously. They flat out hate Detroit [I have strong suspicions as to why] and it enrages them to see it succeed.

Young people wanting to escape the stifling boredom of their comfortable suburban settings for gritty urban living and culture completely flummoxes them and brings out the deepest of THEIR insecurities. They can't understand how someone would trade some security to preserve one's sanity and be able to grow.

They refuse to accept realities, demand statistics [never providing any themselves], insult those who disagree with them and, of course, rarely venture to find out anything for themselves.

They are scared and think everyone else should be, especially their children who they embarrass and can't wait to get away from them.

And want to delude themselves into thinking their McMansion suburban lifestyle is something enjoyable, all the while getting lost driving home in their own neighborhood of identical houses!

[maverick1]

Some folks just can't abide that the heart and core of Detroit is rebounding vigorously. They flat out hate Detroit [I have strong suspicions as to why] and it enrages them to see it succeed.

Young people wanting to escape the stifling boredom of their comfortable suburban settings for gritty urban living and culture completely flummoxes them and brings out the deepest of THEIR insecurities. They can't understand how someone would trade some security to preserve one's sanity and be able to grow.

They refuse to accept realities, demand statistics [never providing any themselves], insult those who disagree with them and, of course, rarely venture to find out anything for themselves.

They are scared and think everyone else should be, especially their children who are embarrassed by them and can't wait to get away from them.

I'm still amazed by this. The hate some people have for Detroit is ridiculous. You would think they would be happy to see the core come back because they benefit from it. If heart of Detroit comes back the whole view of the region worldwide changes. They crap on M1 rail, new restaurants, new businesses, etc. in Detroit. What are they insecure about? A thriving Detroit takes nothing from the suburbs. Suburbs cater to a certain individual just like cities do. I go out of town and people literally don't know or are surprised that Detroit has suburbs. A suburb will never be the face of a metropolis. We've been trying this for 50+ years and have failed miserably.

[Detroit Stylin]

I'm still amazed by this. The hate some people have for Detroit is ridiculous. You would think they would be happy to see the core come back because they benefit from it. If heart of Detroit comes back the whole view of the region worldwide changes. They crap on M1 rail, new restaurants, new businesses, etc. in Detroit. What are they insecure about? A thriving Detroit takes nothing from the suburbs. Suburbs cater to a certain individual just like cities do. I go out of town and people literally don't know or are surprised that Detroit has suburbs. A suburb will never be the face of a metropolis. We've been trying this for 50+ years and have failed miserably.

Its not Detroit they hate......it's "Detroit" they hate....

[Dan Wesson]

• How many "yuppies" have actually moved to Detroit the past couple of years?

Not enough to really matter.

They are going to have to pack up the babies and grab the old lady and everyone goes to make a difference. Grandmama, Grandpapa, Aunts, Uncles, the neighbor Lady too. They can leave the dog, The city got enough of them running loose.

[nain rouge]

Some folks just can't abide that the heart and core of Detroit is rebounding vigorously. They flat out hate Detroit [I have strong suspicions as to why] and it enrages them to see it succeed.

I had a unique opportunity earlier in the year where I got to live in Midtown for 4 months before leaving the state [[long story). Short of it is, while Greater Downtown is definitely the most intriguing and urban area to live in Metro Detroit, it still didn't feel like a true, functioning big city. For one, the lower part of Midtown/Cass Corridor earns the Zombieland tag on that old Park Avenue apartment building. Infill is lacking, and there are still way too many abandoned buildings. Economic activity is largely service oriented outside of Quicken Loans. Watching the continuing decline of Mexicantown was dispiriting and alarming.

I think some of us want to keep things in perspective, so people don't start patting themselves on the back too soon. Detroit has A LOT of hard work ahead of it. The total remaining urban area is very small for a metro of 4 million people. It's not always easy to see that as a local, but its obvious to outsiders. That's why, rather than be wowed by Corktown or whatever, Anthony Bourdain was more or less shocked by the immediate devastation.