U.S. Rep. John Conyers calls Detroit water shutoffs inhumane

[Jimaz]

From today's Free Press: U.S. Rep. John Conyers calls Detroit water shutoffs inhumane

Days after a coalition of welfare rights organizations appealed to the United Nations for relief with Detroit water shutoffs, U.S. Rep. John Conyers today condemned the practice by the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department....

“Detroit’s water crisis did not happen in a vacuum,” Conyers said in a statement this evening. “Over the past decade, Detroiters have seen their water rates increase by 119%....

A coalition of welfare rights organizations — including the Detroit People’s Water Board — appealed to the United Nations to have service restored to customers and to prevent more shutoffs....

“Sick people have been left without running water and working toilets,” the report states. “People recovering from surgery cannot wash and change bandages. Children cannot bathe and parents cannot cook.”...

[Jimaz]

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Detroit...Welcome to 3rd World America

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Apartheid Comes to Detroit...

[jlnascar]

Enough is enough, I recieve my water through the city, I get my bill every other month, I think that is ample enough time to know you have to pay, and if payment has not been made, than some knows that.

[bailey]

Days after a coalition of welfare rights organizations appealed to the United Nations for relief with Detroit water shutoffs, U.S. Rep. John Conyers today condemned the practice by the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department....

“Detroit’s water crisis did not happen in a vacuum,” Conyers said in a statement this evening. “Over the past decade, Detroiters have seen their water rates increase by 119%....

A coalition of welfare rights organizations — including the Detroit People’s Water Board — appealed to the United Nations to have service restored to customers and to prevent more shutoffs....

“Sick people have been left without running water and working toilets,” the report states. “People recovering from surgery cannot wash and change bandages. Children cannot bathe and parents cannot cook.”...From today's Free Press: U.S. Rep. John Conyers calls Detroit water shutoffs inhumane

I understand he's clearly suffering from dementia if not outright alzhiemers, and this is probably like asking a toddler this question.. but I wonder if anyone at the freep thought to ask him if; perhaps, having 150,000 delinquent customers and nearly $118 million in outstanding bills just MIGHT have a little to do with a huge chunk of that increase?

[Honky Tonk]

And there folks, you have the reason Detroit is in the state it's in. "gimme, gimme, gimme", and for free. Talk about privileged......

[Smirnoff]

And there folks, you have the reason Detroit is in the state it's in. "gimme, gimme, gimme", and for free. Talk about privileged......

Entitlement behavior has to stop.....most, if not all other municipalities shut-off water after 30-days of non-payment. Apparently, people outside of Detroit have been treated inhumanely for decades.....

[Detroitnerd]

Entitlement behavior has to stop.....most, if not all other municipalities shut-off water after 30-days of non-payment. Apparently, people outside of Detroit have been treated inhumanely for decades.....

There's plenty of entitlement everywhere. This is America, Jack. Entitlement is where you look for it, from Wall Street to Washington, D.C., to the subsidized lawns and highways of Oakland County. We only shame it when the poor benefit from it.

[Zacha341]

Yes, and we'll see which entitlement group gets the kick in the butt!

There's plenty of entitlement everywhere. This is America, Jack. Entitlement is where you look for it, from Wall Street to Washington, D.C., to the subsidized lawns and highways of Oakland County. We only shame it when the poor benefit from it.

[nain rouge]

And there folks, you have the reason Detroit is in the state it's in. "gimme, gimme, gimme", and for free. Talk about privileged......

Let the old people dehydrate!

[Honky Tonk]

Let the old people dehydrate! [/COLOR]

Maybe YOU could pay some of their bills?

[Zacha341]

Yes, sadly some of their children left them this legacy. I know it is hard to pay bills, yet I feel economics aside that there was a culture of simply NOT paying the water bill.

After all nothing happened when you didn't, things continued as they always had: toilets flushed, sinks still worked. Then look up and it's over a grand or two or twenty grand [[as with some of these business and other entities). Standard "kick the can down the road" thinking and now the collective bill must be paid!

Same thinking in the white house, ala federal spending and waste--kick 'that' can! And they are suppose to bail use out....? Laughable.

Let the old people dehydrate! [/COLOR]

[sumas]

Yes, sadly some of their children left them this legacy. i know it it is hard to pay bills, yet I feel economics aside that there was a culture of simply NOT paying the water bill.

After all nothing happened when you didn't, things continued as they always had: toilets flushed, sinks still worked. Then look up and it over a grand or two or twenty grand [[as with some of these business and other entities). Standard "kick the can down the road" thinking and now the collective bill must be paid!

Same thinking in the white house, ala federal spending and waste--kick 'that' can! And they are suppose tyo bail use out....? Laughable.

Yes you are right, water bills could be carried for years as a lien against property. Had a neighbor many years ago in a different area of town. His bills mounted so high he would get shut off. He would simply go out with a tool and turn it back on. He had no heat, no electric. He was mentally ill. I heard years later, after we had moved, that he tried to build a fire for warmth,the house burnt and he died. Pretty sure he was no loss to humanity but still it seems tragic there is no safety net for desperate or ill people.

Detroit humor I suppose, but he had actually applied to be a police officer. He got to the level where the dept comes around and interviews neighbors. I flat out told them if he gets hired I am moving way way out. Very sorry Engler made sure that no help was available for "challenged citizens".

[Jimaz]

... His bills mounted so high he would get shut off. He would simply go out with a tool and turn it back on.... He was mentally ill....

Heh. That sounds pretty clever to me.

Just thinking off the cuff here: Would it be impractical to drill a few free community water wells where they're most needed?

I'm thinking back to my grandfather's farm where he had a classic windmill constantly pumping aquifer water up into barrels, stored for when there was no wind. I have always admired the simple genius of those squeaky old windmills. It was free energy, harnessed.

[Detroitnerd]

I might not have such a problem with the shutoffs if there weren't such big players in heavy arrears. Seems to me asking the DMC, Ford Field and other major skinflints to pay up first might have made this more palatable for me.

As usual, these days, there's one law for them, another law for us.

[Honky Tonk]

I might not have such a problem with the shutoffs if there weren't such big players in heavy arrears. Seems to me asking the DMC, Ford Field and other major skinflints to pay up first might have made this more palatable for me.

As usual, these days, there's one law for them, another law for us.

Is there proof these "skinflints" aren't paying? Has the media bothered contacting the major players and asking them "What's up with that?"

[Detroitnerd]

Is there proof these "skinflints" aren't paying? Has the media bothered contacting the major players and asking them "What's up with that?"

Yes, it's documented. In April, a WDIV Channel 4 segment reported on the biggest offenders included Joe Louis Arena [[$80,000 - Ilitch), Ford Field [[$55,000 - the Fords), Palmer Park Golf Club [[$200,000 - Detroit city royalty). But without the threat of shutting off water, how do you get the big players to abide by the rules we expect of our poorest?

Nope, it's one law for them, another for the rest of us. No wonder Detroiters don't pay their bills; the crooks up top are setting the tone.

[e.p.3]

Yes, it's documented. In April, a WDIV Channel 4 segment reported on the biggest offenders included Joe Louis Arena [[$80,000 - Ilitch), Ford Field [[$55,000 - the Fords), Palmer Park Golf Club [[$200,000 - Detroit city royalty). But without the threat of shutting off water, how do you get the big players to abide by the rules we expect of our poorest?

Nope, it's one law for them, another for the rest of us. No wonder Detroiters don't pay their bills; the crooks up top are setting the tone.

So, you're focusing on a sliver [[$335,000) of $118,000,000 in bills? I'd say the other $117,665,000 warrant a bit more of your attention...

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

So, you're focusing on a sliver [[$335,000) of $118,000,000 in bills? I'd say the other $117,665,000 warrant a bit more of your attention...

I would think making those with obvious means and large outstanding bills actually bring their accounts current is an easy place to start, and its not necessarily an "either or" proposition.

I'd also like to see how many folks with accounts in arrears magically find the means to work out a payment plan if faced with a shut off.

[motz]

So, you're focusing on a sliver [[$335,000) of $118,000,000 in bills? I'd say the other $117,665,000 warrant a bit more of your attention...

I crunched numbers today. I may write up a blog post later, but the numbers make no sense according to everything I have seen available. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...d_to_help.html This article is terrible, but links to a Freep article quoting the $118M number, as well as the report from some activist water people who have plenty of unsourced information. If you go read through, their number of delinquent non-residential customers HAS to be way off. 83k delinquent residential customers x $540 average bill only accounts for $45M. And according to what that report says, the non-residential customers only owe like $36M delinquent. Basically none of the numbers match, however the $45M from residential customers seems to be fairly accurate from what I can see. They actually cited that information, unlike the non-residential numbers.

I think the bigger issue we run into is the "inhumane shutoff" of 3,025 delinquent accounts [[out of 44,273) is less than 10% of delinquent accounts being shutoff. That means roughly 41k people either entered a payment plan, squared up their bills, or were able to get assistance to get their bills right.

DWSD should focus on shutting off non-residential delinquent accounts that are past due more than 60 days. Residential delinquent accounts should be handled with a little bit more care, as these are humans beings in residences. What we don't need is Canadian Water Project People sending crap to the UN about how we're a third world country and this is the worst thing ever. 3,000 delinquent customers [[without access to the cited report, I can't tell you how many of those 3,000 accounts were residential) out of 44,000+ shows that 41,000 people were able to get their stuff straight, and this issue is definitely much much deeper than "inhumane" and "trying to murder poors".

[Honky Tonk]

Yes, it's documented. In April, a WDIV Channel 4 segment reported on the biggest offenders included Joe Louis Arena [[$80,000 - Ilitch), Ford Field [[$55,000 - the Fords), Palmer Park Golf Club [[$200,000 - Detroit city royalty). But without the threat of shutting off water, how do you get the big players to abide by the rules we expect of our poorest?

Nope, it's one law for them, another for the rest of us. No wonder Detroiters don't pay their bills; the crooks up top are setting the tone.

Then I would really like an answer why the water hasn't been shut off to Ford Field or Palmer Park Golf Course having not paid their water bill. [[not meaning you) You have to remember though, the shut-offs all received multiple warnings ahead of time, and made no effort to contact the DWSD, or arrange to make payments, one of the stipulations for shut-off. Secondly, the number of shut-offs isn't all old or poor people as the article or the "Welfare Rights" group is leading people to believe. According to DWSD, a majority of the shut-offs were abandoned homes and businesses. It looks like Conyers has found a way to get re-elected as a write-in candidate. Maybe MMuckraker, or one of the more reliable news sources could do a more concise follow up story.

[Wesley Mouch]

Yes, it's documented. In April, a WDIV Channel 4 segment reported on the biggest offenders included Joe Louis Arena [[$80,000 - Ilitch), Ford Field [[$55,000 - the Fords), Palmer Park Golf Club [[$200,000 - Detroit city royalty). But without the threat of shutting off water, how do you get the big players to abide by the rules we expect of our poorest?

Nope, it's one law for them, another for the rest of us. No wonder Detroiters don't pay their bills; the crooks up top are setting the tone.

I sincerely doubt that the Fords and Ilitches don't pay their water bills. Having reasonably current bills totalling $55k or $80k is quite possible. If you want to paint these guys are 'offenders', then you should include a list of their most recent payments, and the dates.

So from another angle... do you think its possible that Ilitch and Ford don't have the proper documentation, or are disputing bills from DWS. I can tell you from personal experience that getting any information from them about anything in impossible.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Yes, it's documented. In April, a WDIV Channel 4 segment reported on the biggest offenders included Joe Louis Arena [[$80,000 - Ilitch), Ford Field [[$55,000 - the Fords), Palmer Park Golf Club [[$200,000 - Detroit city royalty). But without the threat of shutting off water, how do you get the big players to abide by the rules we expect of our poorest?

Nope, it's one law for them, another for the rest of us. No wonder Detroiters don't pay their bills; the crooks up top are setting the tone.

+ 1,000 I understand everybody is culpable in this, even the working stiffs. But when major players are skinflinting the system for thousands of dollars, what message does that send?

[Goose]

the price of water in Detroit is too high!!! Conyers and his liberal ilk are part of the reason the City got so screwed up.... the water system is a sieve and water is being wasted all over the place, spilling from open sources... its sad that we live so close to the largest fresh was supply in the world but pay some of the highest prices for water.....

[nain rouge]

Maybe YOU could pay some of their bills?

Look, I understand the need to have people pay their bills, but we need to show compassion for our elderly. What do you want someone in their 80s that can't afford the water bill to do? Get a job at McDonald's?

If you're young and just thought you could get away without paying, then that's a different story. But we need to make distinctions. Many people in Detroit's rougher neighborhoods are older folks that can't afford to move.

And yes, I'd willingly give away some of my money to help pay for the water bills of the impoverished elderly.

[jlnascar]

I am sure all the people who are in arrears are not 80yrs old. Ok I agree, a little compasion for the elderly and indigent. But come on, if you are able body, pay the bill. Also agree with going after the big guys.