'Magic Plus' Plan for Michigan State Fairgrounds?

**hybridy** · February-09-21, 10:50 AM

DDOT finalizes new State Fair Transit Center location

On Monday, the Detroit Department of Transportation [[DDOT) announced where a new transit center would fit in to the current site plan. The new transit center would be constructed off of 8 Mile, with connected pathways to the nearby Meijer. The new facility will have indoor and outdoor waiting areas, and bathroom facilities.

**KnnNike** · February-09-21, 01:19 PM

I just cannot believe that this is the limit of the City's imagination; for Pete's sake, build several stories of apartments on top of that transit center at the very least; that alone would sow the seeds for a true transit-oriented development, and could easily be accomplished on that footprint.

**hybridy** · February-09-21, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by KnnNike

I just cannot believe that this is the limit of the City's imagination; for Pete's sake, build several stories of apartments on top of that transit center at the very least; that alone would sow the seeds for a true transit-oriented development, and could easily be accomplished on that footprint.

Indeed. Some workforce housing adjacent to retail, jobs and integrated into a transit station isn't a stretch by any imagination.

There's even handy graphics out there:
http://www.tod.org/stations.html

**bust** · February-09-21, 03:45 PM

Indeed, indeed.
That's a good link, hybridy.
But here I suggest patience.
Hopefully the "future developments" will include residential on higher floors.
If that proves successful, the dinky "transit center" shouldn't be hard to replace.
However until the entire bus fleet has been upgraded I wouldn't want to live above so much traditional diesel bus exhaust.
The "future development" sites would be more attractive, wouldn't they?

Apologies for my low expectations, but the current plan will be a huge improvement over vacant land. It will be good to see it happen.

**masterblaster** · February-09-21, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by bust

Apologies for my low expectations, but the current plan will be a huge improvement over vacant land. It will be good to see it happen.

The future plans will be light industrial. Duggan is trying to get auto suppliers to set up shop there.

A poster above said it best: lack of IMAGINATION. The Fairgrounds could have been a one-of-kind mixed use development/public space incorporating some of the old fairground buildings. Duggan never solicited an RFP for a mixed-use redevelopment of the site in the 2 years the city owned it before they announced Amazon. He never had any public meetings with the neighborhoods around the Fairgrounds to get their input on what they would have liked.

**Dexlin** · February-09-21, 11:28 PM

Don't ask how, but I've seen updated renderings one of the Magic+ site. It will be your typical mixed-use [[i.e. multi-story buildings, ground floor commercial) and mixed-tenancy [[market-rate, senior, 'affordable,' etc) modernist architectural development .

As for the city's portion, it's embarrassing. I don't mind them developing it with light industrial space; it's the only kind of space selling and leasing like hotcakes in the region, right now. But the site plan is so 1980's Southfield; such an incredibly waste of good land by placing it setback so far from everything, like literally the only orientation of the building that is horrible. If they wanted it setback from the Magic+ stuff they could have wedged it up against the CN tracks. You're gonna move the transit center to literally across the street and then still surround it with suburban-sized setbacks and surplus parking?

**Danny** · February-10-21, 07:37 AM

What up with this 'Magic Plus' Plan? It better not be some Disneyworld-eqsue theme park or a just a one big large greenspace with nothing. I would like to see housing going up in that area with hub shopping and tight security to keep out of the riff-raffs.

**royce** · February-11-21, 02:44 AM

My gripe is that this transit center should have built along with the retail development years ago. What was the reason for that? Was it a lack of cooperation between the state and the city; the city and the developer? Better late than never. Now, as someone mentioned earlier, there needs to be some affordable housing and senior housing. One thing that improves a senior's quality of life is being able to walk to things they need - the grocery store, bank, and pharmacy.

Redeveloping the Michigan State Fairgrounds should have been a no-brainer. Was politics, greed, or just a lack of imagination[[as someone mentioned earlier) the reason? It's time for a Detroit News or Detroit Free Press expose.

**Dexlin** · February-11-21, 05:17 AM

It wasn't a scandal. The city marketed it for other development for years; they didn't get enough bites; and then Amazon came along. Kind of a no-brainer as much as I hate that their portion is essentially going to be a suburban industrial park.

**casscorridor** · February-11-21, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by hybridy

DDOT finalizes new State Fair Transit Center location

Regardless what you think of Amazon, it's clear that there was zero reason why the historic structures needed to be destroyed. None.

**KnnNike** · February-11-21, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by bust

Indeed, indeed.
That's a good link, hybridy.
But here I suggest patience.
Hopefully the "future developments" will include residential on higher floors.
If that proves successful, the dinky "transit center" shouldn't be hard to replace.
However until the entire bus fleet has been upgraded I wouldn't want to live above so much traditional diesel bus exhaust.
The "future development" sites would be more attractive, wouldn't they?

Apologies for my low expectations, but the current plan will be a huge improvement over vacant land. It will be good to see it happen.

With all due respect, no. You're more than entitled to your preferences, but the fact is that even the oldest DDOT fleet right now is only 7 years old [[and those are a very small %). Nearly all of their fleet is now-diesel electric, and even the current diesel-only buses emit a minute amount of emissions.

The bigger concern would be noise from the buses, but this is a completely solvable problem; literally thousands of cities have done so with transit-oriented developments.

**Dexlin** · February-11-21, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Regardless what you think of Amazon, it's clear that there was zero reason why the historic structures needed to be destroyed. None.

Yeah, that's the other part that got me and relates to the site plan. It's like when you clear-cut an entire forest for a set of powerlines or something.

**royce** · February-12-21, 04:08 AM

The "Future Development" site in the northeast corner of the rendering is where residential should go. It should also face the west so that residents can walk the shortest distance to get to transit stop and the shopping center. That's probably not going to happen because in the rendering you already see a sea of cars parked to the east of the transit center, followed by a huge commercial looking building. Also, where the Magic Plus sites are located, it would better to just have offices and not residential. It's still a long walk from both of those sites to the shopping center, but that's probably exactly where the residential is going to go, if it ever happens. Since nothing is etched in stone, I need to just wait and see what happens. Hopefully developers will make the best decisions [[tongue in cheek).

**Satiricalivory** · February-12-21, 12:05 PM

Passed by the site yesterday and it seems to be well under construction, it's utterly massive and the historical fair buildings were still there.

**Sehv313** · February-12-21, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by rex

i just dont see it. Its not that kind of neighborhood. Not that its realistic considering the fact that its covered in pavement and buildings but i would have voted for more cemetery. Atleast it would be looked after.

Boy did this quote age well.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/consu...ide-mausoleum/

**Danny** · February-13-21, 08:46 AM

Detroit got too much cemeteries already after more brothers killing brothers in the ghetto hoods of Detroit after 1967.

The old fairgrounds is proud to have an Amazon plant in Detroit. But the rest of the open space needs some development like housing and business hubs. There is not a single business hub and housing in the fairgrounds for many years until Meijer and its businesses came along.

**401don** · February-13-21, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

Yeah, that's the other part that got me and relates to the site plan. It's like when you clear-cut an entire forest for a set of powerlines or something.

Was site design by Olympia Development?

**Hamtragedy** · February-13-21, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

Was site design by Olympia Development?

LOL! Seems to have the foresight and creativity of Olympia, doesn't it.

Which is to say none of the above.

**bust** · February-13-21, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by KnnNike

...even the oldest DDOT fleet right now is only 7 years old [[and those are a very small %). Nearly all of their fleet is now-diesel electric, and even the current diesel-only buses emit a minute amount of emissions.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by KnnNike

The bigger concern would be noise

Came so close to writing that too.

Originally Posted by KnnNike

literally thousands of cities have done so with transit-oriented developments.

I know, at least hundreds. I fully support transit-oriented development.

But transit-oriented development succeeds in cities that are much denser, where much more is possible without a car. The fairgrounds and its vicinity are nothing like dense. People will want a car.

If the "future development" materializes and includes residential I'd still consider it transit-oriented, and definitely a win.

I've only owned cars in Detroit. Everywhere else I chose where I didn't need one.

I don't disagree with your vision, at all. I hope the proposed design will be steps towards it, bringing many direct and collateral benefits along the way. And if it succeeds it has plenty of room to grow closer to it.

Of course it could it be better. It should absolutely not be the end goal. And it isn't.

It's smaller steps, more likely to find their footing, especially right out of the gate. Would be a shame for this project to fail because before it gained momentum it tried to leap too far.

I hate parking lots. That's obvious from my previous posts. And I put quotes around "transit center" for a reason.

But there's almost nothing easier to develop than a parking lot. Until then they serve a useful purpose. And like I said, that transit center structure will be easy to replace if demand for more residential coalesces and that's the best location.

Until then, let's not expect Detroit and Metro-Detroiters to turn on a dime. Let's push in the right direction, toward our goals. Progress is still progress, even when it's not as fast as some want.

I'm hopeful for this first phase, optimistic it will get better-- unless it trips up before it nears critical mass.

**Ray1936** · February-13-21, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Regardless what you think of Amazon, it's clear that there was zero reason why the historic structures needed to be destroyed. None.

Um.....just because something is old, it does not necessarily mean it is historic. WTF, I'm old, but I'm sure not historic. I don't think, anyway.

**bust** · February-13-21, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Um.....just because something is old, it does not necessarily mean it is historic. WTF, I'm old, but I'm sure not historic. I don't think, anyway.

I still hope you document your experiences on the job.
I can only imagine the history you have to share.
A precious perspective, don't take it for granted.

**masterblaster** · February-13-21, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Um.....just because something is old, it does not necessarily mean it is historic. WTF, I'm old, but I'm sure not historic. I don't think, anyway.

Many of the world's foremost musical talents performed at the Coliseum and the Bandshell - Louis Armstong, Johnny Cash, Chuck Berry, Michael Jackson, Nirvana, Al Green, Tim McGraw, Ray Charles, amongst many others.

The Shrine Circus performed in the Coliseum for many decades

The Detroit Symphony Orchestra and the Detroit Concert Band performed outdoor concerts at the Bandshell for decades

WWF events were held at the Michigan State Fairgrounds

Seabiscuit - the world-renowned Triple Crown winning horse from the 1930's competed in races at the State Fairgrounds.

In the 1950's, NASCAR races were held there, and famous NASCAR drivers of that period competed in them [[the horse racing and auto racing facilities were demolished in 2001, however)

Ronald Reagan, when he was running for president in 1980 and the Republican Convention was in Detroit, visited the Michigan State Fair.

All of that is HISTORY. You were around when all that happened.

**softailrider** · February-13-21, 09:38 PM

Saw James Brown and Three Dog Night there.

**Dexlin** · February-13-21, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Um.....just because something is old, it does not necessarily mean it is historic. WTF, I'm old, but I'm sure not historic. I don't think, anyway.

Well, accept for the fact that, you know, that the Michigan State Fair Riding Coliseum, Dairy Cattle Building, and Agricultural Building are literally on the National Register of Historic Places.

And, I'd argue you're historic, because you're certainly one of a kind...