'Magic Plus' Plan for Michigan State Fairgrounds?

**NSortzi** · August-11-20, 03:20 PM

More info, including a site plan, can be found in the Free Press’ article in the announcement: https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ds/3342702001/

Freep is also reporting that the old state fair buildings will likely be razed in the future: https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...on/3345483001/

**softailrider** · August-11-20, 06:31 PM

Seems like it could have been developed in something better. This Amazon thing just isn’t very sexy.

**masterblaster** · August-12-20, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Seems like it could have been developed in something better. This Amazon thing just isn’t very sexy.

With all of the vacant land in the city, you think the city could have cobbled some land together, especially on the east side/airport, to build a facility like this. You would think that a historic property like this would be reserved for a more transformational development.

**401don** · August-12-20, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by masterblaster

With all of the vacant land in the city, you think the city could have cobbled some land together, especially on the east side/airport, to build a facility like this. You would think that a historic property like this would be reserved for a more transformational development.

It's an ideal site for Amazon and much better for Detroiters to get to than the east side. It could eventually have had something better but it's sat empty for years and as far as historical significance those buildings are basically cow barns and chicken coops with nice facades.

**masterblaster** · August-12-20, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

It's an ideal site for Amazon and much better for Detroiters to get to than the east side. It could eventually have had something better but it's sat empty for years and as far as historical significance those buildings are basically cow barns and chicken coops with nice facades.

I tire of this Toronto person downplaying Detroit. Almost every single comment you make is a dig on Detroit. Every single comment. How many times have you been to the Michigan State Fair grounds - you are Canadian. There is a 6,000 seat arena at the Michigan State Fairgrounds.

Yes your city is far superior than Detroit. You don't have keep rubbing it in our faces.

This was the oldest state fair in the country. To see the state fair become what it has become, with its old home [[from 1905 to 2009) turned into a big warehouse of low-skilled jobs that could have been put anywhere - like the east side or Highland Park - is a little disappointing.

Anyway, The new Transit Center would be nice. This is a major transit intersection point - but being next to a former commuter rail line, it would be nice if the planners would consider its connection to a future commuter rail line.

**401don** · August-12-20, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by masterblaster

I tire of this Toronto person downplaying Detroit. Almost every single comment you make is a dig on Detroit. Every single comment. How many times have you been to the Michigan State Fair grounds - you are Canadian. There is a 6,000 seat arena at the Michigan State Fairgrounds.

Yes your city is far superior than Detroit. You don't have keep rubbing it in our faces.

This was the oldest state fair in the country. To see the state fair become what it has become, with its old home [[from 1905 to 2009) turned into a big warehouse of low-skilled jobs that could have been put anywhere - like the east side or Highland Park - is a little disappointing.

Anyway, The new Transit Center would be nice. This is a major transit intersection point - but being next to a former commuter rail line, it would be nice if the planners would consider its connection to a future commuter rail line.

I'm not sure I'd call myself a Toronto person. The last time I was downtown Toronto was to the auto show about 10 years ago. I've been to the Michigan State Fair 3 times, twice as a child. I've been to the far larger Canadian National Exhibition once. It also has several historic buildings, a few of which were razed for a better purpose and because they had no real architectural significance. I think my points are generally fair and balanced. Tell me why you would rather the city wait even longer on another development rather than move forward with this one. The combination of jobs, tax benefits and transit center would seem to justify it.

**Gistok** · August-12-20, 08:40 AM

Despite the sentimentality of losing the buildings of the oldest State Fair in the country... even history preservationists say that not every old building can be saved. Some are dinosaurs... and the dinosaurs are gone.

Every major Worlds Fair in the USA has disappeared, with the exception of a building or two that had to be reconstructed with more permanent materials [[the Ford Rotunda was an example that didn't survive long). And that is very sad when you look at some of the architectural gems that were lost, going back to the Columbian Exhibition of 1892-93 in Chicago [[although the Museum of Science and Industry survives that fair).

The only exception to the fair demolition derby was the 1936 Texas Centennial in Dallas. Today Fair Park is the lone intact survivor among closed fairs.

The state and city have had nearly a dozen years to figure out what can be done with the Michigan State Fair buildings... sadly nothing comes to mind. But I really will lament their loss...

**313WX** · August-12-20, 12:23 PM

I hope the city isn't giving out incentives for these low wage warehouse jobs.

**masterblaster** · August-12-20, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Despite the sentimentality of losing the buildings of the oldest State Fair in the country... even history preservationists say that not every old building can be saved. Some are dinosaurs... and the dinosaurs are gone.

Every major Worlds Fair in the USA has disappeared, with the exception of a building or two that had to be reconstructed with more permanent materials [[the Ford Rotunda was an example that didn't survive long). And that is very sad when you look at some of the architectural gems that were lost, going back to the Columbian Exhibition of 1892-93 in Chicago [[although the Museum of Science and Industry survives that fair).

The only exception to the fair demolition derby was the 1936 Texas Centennial in Dallas. Today Fair Park is the lone intact survivor among closed fairs.

The state and city have had nearly a dozen years to figure out what can be done with the Michigan State Fair buildings... sadly nothing comes to mind. But I really will lament their loss...

You are the one to talk about dinosaurs, the movie house expert. A poster in another forum stated, the heyday of the grand movie palaces...lasted about a decade. Can you admit downtown movie theaters were/are dinosaurs [[United Artist, Michigan, Madison, Adams)?

We are not talking about World's Fairs. We are talking about state fairs. I thought every state has a state fair. In places like Minnesota, the state fair grounds is active all year with interesting events and the actual state fair is one of the most anticipated and signature annual festivals in that state.

See how Minnesota activates its state fairgrounds. Horse shows, outdoor movie presentations, antique car shows, antiques shows & flea markets, concerts, roller derby, book festivals - It is truly a cultural treasure of the Twin City metro area. Michigan's could have been the same. However....

Because the State Fairgrounds is in the city of Detroit, surrounded by blight, everybody in the state just gave up on it.

**Gistok** · August-12-20, 05:53 PM

^ Maybe you missed my last comment... "I will lament the loss".

Minnesota may have done a great job with their state fair... but they sucked when it came to downtown movie palaces. Minneapolis only has 1 left, their State Theatre.

And yes... its location in Detroit in a not-so-good area didn't help. The fair went from a peak of 1.2 million in 1966 down to 217,000 in 2009... that's quite a drop. Governor Granholm stopped state spending in 2009... and no one stepped up to the plate to help it out.

So if you have a reason to save it, beyond just saving it... I'm all ears... I would love to see at least the coliseum saved. But how? And for what adaptive reuse?

I am all for even mothballing it. But sadly circuses are now gone forever. Rodeos? As a performance venue it is only 300 seats more than the Fox, and it has poor sight lines.

Here's a video on the building....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku87qfh3yY4

**softailrider** · August-12-20, 06:23 PM

A mixed use development would seem to be ideal for that location. I know that area East of Woodward basically looks like shit now [[and has for a long time) Hate to say it, but in a way it shows how far Detroit has not come back.

**JonWylie** · August-13-20, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

A mixed use development would seem to be ideal for that location. I know that area East of Woodward basically looks like shit now [[and has for a long time) Hate to say it, but in a way it shows how far Detroit has not come back.

The last iteration of the fair grounds as a mixed use site left a lot to be desired. The fact that we will instead get a light industrial area with *hopefully* over 1,200 jobs can mean just as much good as a new neighborhood.

**royce** · August-14-20, 07:21 PM

This is better than nothing. Good to see the bus terminal closer to the Gateway stores. Never understood how the city and the developers of Gateway Shoppes couldn't incorporate the bus terminal so that shoppers would have had an easy walk to and from it.

For years I thought residential should go on the fairgrounds. However, as more people wanted to move into or near downtown to be closer to work, restaurants, and the sports stadiums for sports and other entertainment, it made no sense to try and develop residential on the state fair grounds because it would just be too far from those amenities. After McNichols [[Six Mile), that stretch of Woodward doesn't have a lot to offer residents anyway besides the park [[Palmer Park). An Amazon or light industrial development sounds like the best move.

**Meddle** · August-14-20, 08:14 PM

I would block Jeffazon in as many ways as possible.

**Jason** · August-14-20, 11:33 PM

My understanding is that the site has unique value, for logistics, with its good rail and freeway connections and central location. There's a logistics facility right across 8 Mile from it.

**stasu1213** · August-16-20, 10:13 AM

This would be a win for Detroit and it's residents. This is just as important than reports of any businesses or retailers opening downtown for this will provide jobs to many unskilled residents in Detroit

**ASilvaman** · August-16-20, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I would block Jeffazon in as many ways as possible.

What exactly does this comment mean and how is it associated with the topic being discussed?

**Gistok** · August-16-20, 11:46 AM

Earlier in this thread there were comments about the 1837 built Grant House, which was on the State Fairgrounds site. A poster earlier in this thread linked to a 2015 Curbed Detroit article about plans to move it to somewhere near the Eastern Market.

Latest update on the move [[5 years later)...

https://www.mlive.com/news/2020/05/u...-be-moved.html

Too bad they can't dismantle [[just the outer shell) of the State Fair Coliseum... and rebuild it in Eastern Market as a huge shed [[they could put it where Shed 4 is... that one is pretty pathetic... and probably Shed 5, which is relatively new but doesn't fit the historic character of the older sheds well.

Adaptive reuse...

**softailrider** · August-16-20, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

This would be a win for Detroit and it's residents. This is just as important than reports of any businesses or retailers opening downtown for this will provide jobs to many unskilled residents in Detroit

Couldn't agree more, but why does it have to go there? Other areas have good proximity to freeways and railroads.

**401don** · August-16-20, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Couldn't agree more, but why does it have to go there? Other areas have good proximity to freeways and railroads.

But are they as safe and easy to get to by transit for 1,000 plus citizens? I would argue that is just as important.

**Hypestyles** · August-17-20, 12:28 PM

.... is the movie theater and apartment complex still happening?

**stasu1213** · August-17-20, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Couldn't agree more, but why does it have to go there? Other areas have good proximity to freeways and railroads.

Its a more centralized location

**Satiricalivory** · August-18-20, 09:13 AM

Looks like Amazon is adding some very high paying jobs too.

Amazon to hire 100 more white-collar jobs in Detroit that pay $150K
https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...it/3379498001/

Does anybody know what the total white collar jobs would be there after this? I think last I heard they had 200-500 people there already?

**MSUguy** · August-18-20, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Looks like Amazon is adding some very high paying jobs too.

Amazon to hire 100 more white-collar jobs in Detroit that pay $150K
https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...it/3379498001/

Does anybody know what the total white collar jobs would be there after this? I think last I heard they had 200-500 people there already?

Seriously? It's in the second paragraph of the article

"These new hires would join the 400 existing Amazon employees who, if not for the coronavirus pandemic, are situated in the building."

**Satiricalivory** · August-18-20, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by MSUguy

Seriously? It's in the second paragraph of the article

"These new hires would join the 400 existing Amazon employees who, if not for the coronavirus pandemic, are situated in the building."

I skimmed it, but thanks for being so nice!