'Magic Plus' Plan for Michigan State Fairgrounds?

**Hypestyles** · September-19-15, 10:26 PM

get it started now. Hire local people.

**rex** · September-19-15, 10:44 PM

i just dont see it. Its not that kind of neighborhood. Not that its realistic considering the fact that its covered in pavement and buildings but i would have voted for more cemetery. Atleast it would be looked after.

**hybridy** · April-15-19, 04:34 PM

State Finalizing Sale of Michigan State Fairgrounds in Detroit

Magic Plus, an investment group that includes former Michigan State University and Los Angeles Lakers basketball star Ervin “Magic” Johnson, closed on its Woodward Avenue-facing 16 acres of the fairgrounds today.

The city is expected to close on the remaining 142 acres of State Fairgrounds property later this month. The site is located at the southeast corner of Eight Mile Road and Woodward Avenue.

why does this shit take so damn long?

**swingline** · April-15-19, 05:31 PM

The Fairgrounds property had the potential to become a regional destination development, perhaps ultimately incorporating transit as well as creative mixed uses. The META Expo concept assembled by the local fairgrounds advocacy group provided a forward thinking example of how best to utilize the huge site with job creation, education, residential and retail. This was a chance for the city to think big for development outside of Downtown and Midtown. Unfortunately, now that the site has been divided, with the Magic Plus group getting most of the Woodward frontage, the potential of the site has been greatly diminished. Magic Plus is Joel Ferguson and Marvin Beatty. Magic Johnson has contributed his name and maybe some nominal equity. Ferguson and Beatty do not do anything cutting edge. They are going to build tax-subsidized 1990s big box behind a sea of parking. Nothing creative at all. Cut off from Woodward, the rest of the site will languish under city control. An opportunity lost but hey, at least the neighborhood will get another Walgreens/Dollar Store/O'Reilly Auto Parts and maybe some fast food on the out lots. A few dozen more minimum wage jobs won't be too bad. We voted for that increase to the minimum wage so, . . . . oh wait.

**mwilbert** · April-15-19, 08:42 PM

Since the deal is done there's not much to do but wait and hope it turns out OK, but I can't say it seems very promising.

**EGrant** · April-16-19, 05:47 AM

After courageously quitting the Lakers in a press conference without telling the owner, he should have more time to focus on other things like the Fairgrounds.

**Hypestyles** · June-10-20, 07:17 AM

... Hearing strong watercooler talk that the State Fairgrounds have been quietly sold to one of Jeff Bezos' companies, and that Covid-19 testing may end up moving from that site soon. If true, anyone know what entity could be involved? Amazon? Whole Foods? Something else?

**softailrider** · June-10-20, 04:18 PM

Best place in the city for a 4th casino. Plenty of parking, entire casino can be on one level. Build it, they will come!

**Gistok** · June-10-20, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Best place in the city for a 4th casino. Plenty of parking, entire casino can be on one level. Build it, they will come!

No thank you... we have 3 casinos that are not even at full capacity [[in the pre-pandemic era), we don't need a 4th. It would likely need another constitutional amendment... because outstate politicians will want more than one if it were just up to the legislators. Why take business away from the other 3 anyway? We're fine as it is....

**NSortzi** · June-11-20, 03:43 AM

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s an Amazon distribution center. It’d make sense because they wouldn’t have to go through the problem of acquiring dozens of small parcels like they would in most parts of the city and it’s in a logistically great location.

**ParisianLesion** · June-11-20, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by NSortzi

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s an Amazon distribution center. It’d make sense because they wouldn’t have to go through the problem of acquiring dozens of small parcels like they would in most parts of the city and it’s in a logistically great location.

This *if true* would be a fantastic coup for the city to land an Amazon Distribution Center. Not quite the impact of the expanded Jefferson FCA plant, but nothing to sneeze at either. And it does make a lot of sense logistically - right across the street from the Canadian National terminal and down the road from 75 and 696. The best part, however, would be to just stop talking about Magic Johnson's silly never-going-to-happen development that has been out there for how long? Over 10 years now?

**Johnnny5** · June-11-20, 02:36 PM

Sorry, but I'm not seeing the possibility of another Amazon distribution facility as a positive development whatsoever. These ARE NOT new jobs, they're just the Bezos machine taking business from another local retailer who will in turn be forced to lay off workers or close. Amazon won't build there without extracting massive property tax breaks and they won't pay squat in states taxes either.

**ParisianLesion** · June-11-20, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Sorry, but I'm not seeing the possibility of another Amazon distribution facility as a positive development whatsoever. These ARE NOT new jobs, they're just the Bezos machine taking business from another local retailer who will in turn be forced to lay off workers or close. Amazon won't build there without extracting massive property tax breaks and they won't pay squat in states taxes either.

Explain again how these would not be new jobs?

**401don** · June-11-20, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Sorry, but I'm not seeing the possibility of another Amazon distribution facility as a positive development whatsoever. These ARE NOT new jobs, they're just the Bezos machine taking business from another local retailer who will in turn be forced to lay off workers or close. Amazon won't build there without extracting massive property tax breaks and they won't pay squat in states taxes either.

It's more a case of it being inevitable. The public has chosen to buy from Amazon [[much as I dislike it also) so if they're going to build another facility the jobs may as well be inside the city limits where public transit is more accessible to Detroit citizens.

**Johnnny5** · June-11-20, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by ParisianLesion

Explain again how these would not be new jobs?

It's rather simple. As the local population is not expanding, that means that a new purchase from Amazon is likely going to be at the expense of other retailers that sell the same goods. So when someone in Detroit buys a new pair of black dress pants on Amazon, that's likely a sale that the 8 Mile K&G or even the Meijer store just lost.

To make matters worse, Amazon's use of automation and lack of a physical storefront means that they require fewer employees to provide the same sales numbers [[No cashiers, less security staff, sales associates, etc.) Plus Amazon's businesses pay almost nothing in income taxes and typically far less in property taxes than the brick and mortar stores they're replacing.

So what we end up with is an oversized off street warehouse that might provide 1000 "New Jobs", but at the same time we lose a couple dozen smaller retailers and the 1250 "old jobs" that they offered. It's almost guaranteed to be a net loss overall and a reduced tax base, hence my position that it's NOT a positive development.

**Lapooty** · June-12-20, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

It's rather simple. As the local population is not expanding, that means that a new purchase from Amazon is likely going to be at the expense of other retailers that sell the same goods. So when someone in Detroit buys a new pair of black dress pants on Amazon, that's likely a sale that the 8 Mile K&G or even the Meijer store just lost.

With all due respect, what you're missing here is that Amazon is already an option for everyone everywhere. Someone could choose to buy those black pants from Amazon right now regardless of if there's a distribution center or not. The local retail market already has Amazon as a competitor and that's factored into their sales and employment numbers. What would only happen is the packages would go to the Detroit distribution center rather than the one by the airport [[I think that's the closest other one). So there would be a net gain of any jobs the facility brings. More jobs means more people in the area can choose to buy more black pants from either K&G or Meijer or Amazon.

I hope this makes sense

**ParisianLesion** · June-12-20, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

It's rather simple. As the local population is not expanding, that means that a new purchase from Amazon is likely going to be at the expense of other retailers that sell the same goods. So when someone in Detroit buys a new pair of black dress pants on Amazon, that's likely a sale that the 8 Mile K&G or even the Meijer store just lost.

To make matters worse, Amazon's use of automation and lack of a physical storefront means that they require fewer employees to provide the same sales numbers [[No cashiers, less security staff, sales associates, etc.) Plus Amazon's businesses pay almost nothing in income taxes and typically far less in property taxes than the brick and mortar stores they're replacing.

So what we end up with is an oversized off street warehouse that might provide 1000 "New Jobs", but at the same time we lose a couple dozen smaller retailers and the 1250 "old jobs" that they offered. It's almost guaranteed to be a net loss overall and a reduced tax base, hence my position that it's NOT a positive development.

I understand where you're coming from and agree in many ways. But simple - like most things - it is not.

These are warehouse jobs, not retail jobs. On average, they pay more [[Amazon starts at $15/hr for entry level warehouse worker) and offer more opportunity for advancement. Not to mention the myriad truck driver, facility technician, mechanic, automation tech support, logistics technician, etc. jobs that would accompany this. I worked in both retail and warehousing for years and would take that warehouse job back over the retail if I had to any day of the week.

Not to mention the support businesses such as restaurants and, dare I say, mom and pop shops that would spring up to service the 1,000+ workers that are now going to work at the same place every day.

As for the argument that this is hurting mom and pop stores down the road, that's not simple either. First, as you acknowledge, an Amazon warehouse isn't a storefront. The storefront, as it were, hasn't changed one iota by the presence of a warehouse and thus has minimal, if any, impact on demand by local Detroiters. This doesn't have a correlation to local retail jobs in any direct way. Your 1000 warehouse jobs eliminating 1250 retail jobs feels like a straw man.

Now, does the existence of Amazon as a whole impact small retailers across the country? Of course. But that impact has been positive for many who read the tea leaves and change along with it. Not everything you purchase on Amazon comes from China via an Amazon warehouse, small businesses can sell there too. Now of course, we can get into the minutiae of fees that Amazon charges, etc. but either way the times they are a'changin and there will continue to be fewer store fronts. This doesn't mean the death of all mom and pop shops, merely that the ones that refuse to make changes, people will choose to stop shopping there. Others will thrive by offering something you just can't get on Amazon. We've already seen this proven out over the past 20 years.

So, although this is all hyperbole at this point, I hope the rumors are true because this would most definitely be a net positive for the city.

**JonWylie** · August-11-20, 09:33 AM

Looks like Amazon is part of the announcement today.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...it-sources-say

**Scottathew** · August-11-20, 10:58 AM

I didn't catch all of it, but a few details I caught were:
- Amazon Distribution Center
- New transit building, climate controlled
- Better bus routing
- Better transition from industrial to residential

It's nice to see that a big Amazon distribution center will be built in Detroit right next to a major bus hub. Hopefully this will be able to provide a lot of jobs for folks in Detroit.

**EGrant** · August-11-20, 11:05 AM

Should we change the name of the thread, since Magic hasn't done squat with his plan?

**ASilvaman** · August-11-20, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

Should we change the name of the thread, since Magic hasn't done squat with his plan?

And I truly believe he never will. Wasn't his name and reputation used by a local business group to try and develop that land? It was my understanding it Magic himself wasn't all that much involved in this.

There will likely be an announcement in a year or two about some other entity purchasing the land and moving forward with other ideas, likely more warehouse

**Burnsie** · August-11-20, 01:07 PM

From looking at the rendering, it appears that the remaining large National Register historic buildings [[Coliseum, Dairy Cattle Building, Agricultural Building) won't be in the footprint of the warehouse, though the transit center might be. Overall it's hard to be optimistic about their fates.

**401don** · August-11-20, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by ASilvaman

And I truly believe he never will. Wasn't his name and reputation used by a local business group to try and develop that land? It was my understanding it Magic himself wasn't all that much involved in this.

There will likely be an announcement in a year or two about some other entity purchasing the land and moving forward with other ideas, likely more warehouse

Has Magic made any investment in the city? Aside from the fairgrounds and talk of theaters it seems I remember his name being involved in other investments that never materialized. I realize he has invested a lot in other inner cities; he's not from Detroit and has no obligation to invest here. However if he was waiting for the right time, climate, etc. there has been plenty of opportunities for the last decade.

**Satiricalivory** · August-11-20, 01:14 PM

Best part is zero government subsidies.

**hybridy** · August-11-20, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by ParisianLesion

These are warehouse jobs, not retail jobs. On average, they pay more [[Amazon starts at $15/hr for entry level warehouse worker) and offer more opportunity for advancement. Not to mention the myriad truck driver, facility technician, mechanic, automation tech support, logistics technician, etc. jobs that would accompany this.

Won't all these jobs be automated away in due time?

In the future, we’ll see more and more packaging that’s optimized for robotics, such as non-variable, rigid cuboidal shapes that are easier for robotic units to pick and move.

https://www.aboutamazon.com/amazon-f...lment-centers/

other examples:
Foxconn - WI
Fuyao Glass - OH