GPP and their Farmers Market smack dab in Kercheval.

[Scottathew]

This isn't about race. It's about Detroit being a really, really shitty place to have to co-exist next to.

Let's face reality, the Detroit neighborhood that they're walling off sucks, is a horrible excuse for a place to live, and should have all the "density" people here having fits as it's mostly a shelled-out ghetto ghost town.

It's also reality that there are many good things happening in Detroit and that many things are starting to change for the good, but you simply cannot ignore its current state and cry racism when neighboring communities do things to protect their interests.

[Cliffy]

I don't see what the problem is. If GPP doesn't want Detroiters, then they don't want Detroiters. If they want a Farmers Market, then they want a Farmers Market.

[Dumpling]

Well, I'm nowhere near the Pointes, but I can understand where they might want traffic
coming from Detroit to be "calmed", and what better way to do that than to have a
friendly farmer's market complete with Detroit farmers and with Detroiters' favorite
produce items for sale there as well. [[Hint. Sweet potato pies).

[gazhekwe]

Part of me wonders if Detroiters will feel alienated no matter what is done -- Corktown Yuppie

This is the face of historic trauma. We struggle and struggle with the effects of historic trauma without ever coming to grips with the reality of it. Generations of exclusion, active oppression and injustice result in a people armored with hostility and opposition. Hence, an upscale farmers' market right next door is seen as a slap in the face. More vigilant law enforcement is seen as a direct threat. Neighborhood improvement is viewed as exclusionary.

One way to approach this is direct inclusion. If the neighboring communities are invited to participate in the planning and building, the people who participate will feel a part of it and that attitude will spread as those working on the project find strength and community. Inclusion must be open and equal, not just lip service. We are all in this together and will benefit together.

What we don't need is someone telling us they have this nice thing they made and we can come in if we want. We don't trust. We don't willingly step over the line ourselves. The people with the nice thing have to step over the line to help overcome the history.

[Goose]

Part of me wonders if Detroiters will feel alienated no matter what is done -- Corktown Yuppie

This is the face of historic trauma. We struggle and struggle with the effects of historic trauma without ever coming to grips with the reality of it. Generations of exclusion, active oppression and injustice result in a people armored with hostility and opposition. Hence, an upscale farmers' market right next door is seen as a slap in the face. More vigilant law enforcement is seen as a direct threat. Neighborhood improvement is viewed as exclusionary.

One way to approach this is direct inclusion. If the neighboring communities are invited to participate in the planning and building, the people who participate will feel a part of it and that attitude will spread as those working on the project find strength and community. Inclusion must be open and equal, not just lip service. We are all in this together and will benefit together.

What we don't need is someone telling us they have this nice thing they made and we can come in if we want. We don't trust. We don't willingly step over the line ourselves. The people with the nice thing have to step over the line to help overcome the history.

so anyone with the means and resources to build something or improve something should scale back the scope of the grandeur of the project to make those less fortunate feel welcome and/or included...

[SyGolden48236]

So, a city with the means to create nice things should not make them so nice because those with different means might have their feelings hurt? Feh! That is preposterous!

GPP is creating this marketplace precisely so that their city remains attractive and does not become like that city across Alter road

That being said, people of any race or city of residence are welcome in GPP so long as their deportment is proper.

[Danny]

This isn't about race. It's about Detroit being a really, really shitty place to have to co-exist next to.

Let's face reality, the Detroit neighborhood that they're walling off sucks, is a horrible excuse for a place to live, and should have all the "density" people here having fits as it's mostly a shelled-out ghetto ghost town.

It's also reality that there are many good things happening in Detroit and that many things are starting to change for the good, but you simply cannot ignore its current state and cry racism when neighboring communities do things to protect their interests.

Everyone around the world sees what Detroit ghetto hood had become. A institutionalized internment camp for poor black folks and other poor folks! Folks in Richville don't want to look a DEAD [[C)KRAK HEAD on the corner of Kercheval and Alter Rd. So covering the area with a demarcated farmers' market block Kercheval St. from Detroit border will do. This is a sign a demarcation between rich and the poor. Kind of like having a brick wall over Brewster Place Projects [[ a fictional movie). Or having a five feet concrete wall behind Mandota St. from W. 8 Mile Rd to Outer Drive. This is our reality folks in Metro-Detroit. Still with the signs of racist, segregated and class culture that rivals the old south.

[gazhekwe]

so anyone with the means and resources to build something or improve something should scale back the scope of the grandeur of the project to make those less fortunate feel welcome and/or included...

Goose, no. Sy Golden. NO. They must INCLUDE the presumably to-be-invited outsiders from the very beginning of the process. Make the 'outsiders' insiders.

[Dan Wesson]

Those poor GPP'ers. They find themselves in a position where they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Can't please everybody so you might as well please yourself.

As for the concept of bending over backwards to appease a certain segment of a population who have gotten the short end of the stick historically, leaves me with the thought of the other segment of the population who have gotten the short end of the stick historically who have risen above all the self righteous angst and deprivation and succeeded the old fashioned way. You owe me/us has such a political ring to it nowadays.

The sweestest revenge is success.

[gazhekwe]

As for the concept of bending over backwards to appease a certain segment of a population who have gotten the short end of the stick historically, leaves me with the thought of the other segment of the population who have gotten the short end of the stick historically who have risen above all the self righteous angst and deprivation and succeeded the old fashioned way. It has such a political ring to it nowadays.

Funny that. It is a classic defensive response by those who do not see that there is a Privilege of White Skin Color, no matter what the socio-economic background of the wearer.

[Dan Wesson]

Skin color and privilege depends on where you are. You should expand your world view.

Buzzwords for consumption by the least educated amongst us. You should know there is a lot more than just skin color and the luck of the draw of your parents.

[canuck]

Skin color and privilege depends on where you are. You should expand your world view.

Buzzwords for consumption by the least educated amongst us. You should know there is a lot more than just skin color and the luck of the draw of your parents.

Yes well why do you equate sweet success with vengeance? That last sentence of yours reeks of bad faith, sorry.

[Dan Wesson]

Yes well why do you equate sweet success with vengeance? That last sentence of yours reeks of bad faith, sorry.

Interesting. What do you mean by Faith? Literally, Bad Faith?

I know I can be quite caustic at times. But really, to wave the hand and express what I think are shallow catch word euphemisms as blanket statements on a subject that runs so deep is inflammatory.

Instead of revenge, how about payback if you are inclined or forgiveness which supposedly leads to success.

[Wesley Mouch]

http://blogs.metrotimes.com/news-bla...corktown-head/

This is a response to the above blog in the Metro Times criticizing the NYT fluff piece on Corktown, bemoaning the absence of any mention of African-Americans in a city that's 82% black.

This is from an African-American [[whom I've known for close to 20 years):

"This blog post pretty much sums up the reason I can't live in Detroit. I've never seen a demographic with such an insatiable appetite for self-pity and an entitled sense of reward for complete failure."

I'm glad he said it, because it was very much how I was feeling about it.

Detroit is the only place left where conspiracy lurks around every corner to keep the black man out and/or down.

Stop living in the past and looking for a slight every time a white person blinks.

Yes, there have been huge injustices perpetrated on the black community, but Detroit has milked those injustices for far too long while the rest of the country has matured and changed.

Oh my god...they're turning 2nd into a 2-way street...how can they treat the black community like that? We've been living here for decades. How dare they!!

If, as a black person, you feel uncomfortable enjoying some of the great new businesses in Detroit that have an overwhelming white customer base, you need to look inside yourself.

If you're not comfortable going to Astro, that's your fault.

And I make the same challenge to white people. If you feel uncomfortable at any business with a majority black clientele, you need to look inside yourself as well.

I never feel uncomfortable anywhere, so it always pisses me off when I'm with someone who's not comfortable where we are. But I've never been known for my sense of empathy...

A fine summation of the biggest problem Detroit faces. Bankruptcy can be handled. This is the hard one.

[gazhekwe]

Skin color and privilege depends on where you are. You should expand your world view.

Buzzwords for consumption by the least educated amongst us. You should know there is a lot more than just skin color and the luck of the draw of your parents.

Bottom line is, the country was built by white males for white males. They did not recognize any other skin color or gender as integral to the systems. Those were outside the systems. Because this is unrecognized, it continues to this day. Accompany a woman to buy a car and see what I mean re: Gender.

[SyGolden48236]

Bottom line is, the country was built by white males for white males. They did not recognize any other skin color or gender as integral to the systems. Those were outside the systems. Because this is unrecognized, it continues to this day. Accompany a woman to buy a car and see what I mean re: Gender.

Tell that to Mary Barra, a woman who happens to be the CEO of General Motors, one of the world's largest corporations.

And my wife buys her own cars without me going with her. She has been doing so for over 25 years and she has never been treated poorly.

Things may have been somewhat as you describe in the past. But things are different today. People need to try letting go of the past and the lingering anger, bitterness and resentment and enjoy today's world which, while not perfect, is far better than what you are describing.

[Dan Wesson]

Bottom line is, the country was built by white males for white males. They did not recognize any other skin color or gender as integral to the systems. Those were outside the systems. Because this is unrecognized, it continues to this day. Accompany a woman to buy a car and see what I mean re: Gender.

Bottom line is all cultures engage in this behavior. Some are better at addressing the issue and some don't care to.

How about Indian Country? I can point to the preference laws as examples.

[gazhekwe]

Then you would be continuing tp blunder on in your blindness. Preference indeed!

[Dan Wesson]

Then you would be continuing tp blunder on in your blindness. Preference indeed!

Yes, I agree, Harrumph indeed!....;-)

[canuck]

Interesting. What do you mean by Faith? Literally, Bad Faith?

I know I can be quite caustic at times. But really, to wave the hand and express what I think are shallow catch word euphemisms as blanket statements on a subject that runs so deep is inflammatory.

Instead of revenge, how about payback if you are inclined or forgiveness which supposedly leads to success.

Well, I was pointing to that last sentence because it was telling, and your alternative expression is just a tad more revealing. I mean there is just as much anger and resentment on the "successful side" of the tracks in Detroit metro as there is on the other. That regional trait speaks to the lack of cohesion Gazhekwe and others decry. You are right when you say there are many such attitudes worldwide, but we are talking of resolving these disappointments, not entrenching them. Grosse Pointe should go ahead w the project by the way. But GP also needs to address the problem of economic and cultural disparity, not occult it.

[SyGolden48236]

But GP also needs to address the problem of economic and cultural disparity, not occult it.

Why do they need to address anything? Why can't they just live their lives and enjoy what their community has to offer without other people dictating to them what they must do in order to assuage other people's hyper-sensitivity?

[Scottathew]

Why do they need to address anything? Why can't they just live their lives and enjoy what their community has to offer without other people dictating to them what they must do in order to assuage other people's hyper-sensitivity?

I'm not quite sure what people are expecting...

Do they want GPP to start randomly burning down homes and artificially delay police response times because they're too well off? That way they don't have to feel so bad about being such a desirable place to live?

GPP has gone from less than 3% black to over 10% black in just a decade. There is no racism trying to keep black people out. It's a free market where black and white families are able to buy or rent real estate.

Black people have been flocking to GPP because it offers more than where ever they're coming from. Should we hate them and label them as "trying to be white"? Or should we just be happy that folks are able to live where they want.

This isn't a GPP issue, it's an issue that Detroit is so shitty that communities have to take steps to insulate themselves from crime.

[Honky Tonk]

+5........

[e.p.3]

http://blogs.metrotimes.com/news-bla...corktown-head/

This is a response to the above blog in the Metro Times criticizing the NYT fluff piece on Corktown, bemoaning the absence of any mention of African-Americans in a city that's 82% black.

This is from an African-American [[whom I've known for close to 20 years):

"This blog post pretty much sums up the reason I can't live in Detroit. I've never seen a demographic with such an insatiable appetite for self-pity and an entitled sense of reward for complete failure."

I'm glad he said it, because it was very much how I was feeling about it.

Detroit is the only place left where conspiracy lurks around every corner to keep the black man out and/or down.

Stop living in the past and looking for a slight every time a white person blinks.

Amen. External locus of control. It makes a disappointing life easier to cope with if you convince yourself life is rigged to keep you down.

[GUSHI]

Your right the country was built by white males, but don't tell me that certain European whites were not discrimnted against, Italian and Irish come to mind, oh catholic and Jews were and are discrimnted against,. It the culture of looking to blame someone else, that has kept a large percentage of Aa down, not the white folk, my parents came here in the 60s and still speak poor English, but they were able to make it, because they worked and saved and didn't bitch about people trying to keep them down, oh by the way they were discrimnted against also by white bad blacks,QUOTE=gazhekwe;440799]Bottom line is, the country was built by white males for white males. They did not recognize any other skin color or gender as integral to the systems. Those were outside the systems. Because this is unrecognized, it continues to this day. Accompany a woman to buy a car and see what I mean re: Gender.[/QUOTE]