GPP and their Farmers Market smack dab in Kercheval.

[Dan Wesson]

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/2...armers-market/

The snow has been cleared...

[corktownyuppie]

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/blog/2...armers-market/

The snow has been cleared...

I don't understand the outrage. They're building a marketplace. They're making it pedestrian friendly. They are overtly and explicitly stating that Detroiters are welcome. They are also saying that traffic is being re-routed.

What more do people want? Why is it an initial reaction to presume the worst? And honestly, if Grosse Pointe Park really wanted to keep Detroiters out, I'd say this is probably the worst way to to do it. They could just put up a perimeter fence and tell people they must enter the gated enclave at Jefferson and Alter or Mack and Cadieux.

[jt1]

I don't understand the outrage. They're building a marketplace. They're making it pedestrian friendly. They are overtly and explicitly stating that Detroiters are welcome. They are also saying that traffic is being re-routed.

What more do people want? Why is it an initial reaction to presume the worst? And honestly, if Grosse Pointe Park really wanted to keep Detroiters out, I'd say this is probably the worst way to to do it. They could just put up a perimeter fence and tell people they must enter the gated enclave at Jefferson and Alter or Mack and Cadieux.

Agreed. My initial reaction was that this was to cut off traffic but it seems like the route to get around this is a quick path through an alley [[as outliend in the plan). If that's the biggest inconvenience then it certainly isn't to keep people out.,

[Detroitnerd]

Regardless of all that, did nobody think of the optics of this? I'm afraid that this project goes in the column of "indescribably stupid."

[corktownyuppie]

Regardless of all that, did nobody think of the optics of this? I'm afraid that this project goes in the column of "indescribably stupid."

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this...how would you suggest they have done it differently?

[Detroitnerd]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this...how would you suggest they have done it differently?

If the city fathers didn't realize after blocking off the street with a pile of snow that blocking off the street was controversial, I don't know what to tell them. Maybe they should block off the street with a public sculpture of a burning cross instead ... jesus ...

[corktownyuppie]

If the city fathers didn't realize after blocking off the street with a pile of snow that blocking off the street was controversial, I don't know what to tell them. Maybe they should block off the street with a public sculpture of a burning cross instead ... jesus ...

Ya, but the snow is temporary. Now it is going to be a market. Sounds pretty welcoming to me.

[Detroitnerd]

Ya, but the snow is temporary. Now it is going to be a market. Sounds pretty welcoming to me.

Not so welcoming to motorists trying to get into GPP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omDeKnbyoLM

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this...how would you suggest they have done it differently?

Jeez-o-pete this person needs to get over herself and shame on the M C Muckraker for really mucking it up beyond muckability...Really Cynthia " No Coloreds" I thought that term went away with the Johnson administration. What twisted world do you live in thinking that You and those who share the same pigment will be excluded from shopping at this marketplace. My My what a sad victim existence life you must live. If her comments weren't so sad it would almost be laughable. I'll see you at the Marketplace Cynthia.

“I want to say I’m shocked,” Cynthia Jackson, who lives near Alter in Detroit, said. “But this has been happening for as long as I remember. Might as well put up a sign that says, ‘No coloreds.’”

[Honky Tonk]

Jeez-o-pete this person needs to get over herself and shame on the M C Muckraker for really mucking it up beyond muckability...Really Cynthia " No Coloreds" I thought that term went away with the Johnson administration. What twisted world do you live in thinking that You and those who share the same pigment will be excluded from shopping at this marketplace. My My what a sad victim existence life you must live. If her comments weren't so sad it would almost be laughable. I'll see you at the Marketplace Cynthia.

“I want to say I’m shocked,” Cynthia Jackson, who lives near Alter in Detroit, said. “But this has been happening for as long as I remember. Might as well put up a sign that says, ‘No coloreds.’”

I think "Cynthia" should get off her fat ass and actually take a walk around GPP. She should go to Kroger, Trader Joe's, Jo Ann Fabric, Village Pub, several resale shops, etc., etc., etc. Everyplace I go, I see "black people", and they don't even know they're black.

[EastsideAl]

Well, that's a much nicer way to go. If it works out it, it sounds like it could actually be a real asset to the entire area. I take it then that they are not going to be erecting the George Wallace building originally planned to block Kercheval there?

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Well, that's a much nicer way to go. If it works out it, it sounds like it could actually be a real asset to the entire area. I take it then that they are not going to be erecting the George Wallace building originally planned to block Kercheval there?

Almost spit coffee all over my desk when I read that one...Nice humor Eastside Al...I dig it

[TKshreve]

5 will get you 10 that alley is closed off ASAP.

[SWMAP]

"Regardless of all that, did nobody think of the optics of this? I'm afraid that this project goes in the column of "indescribably stupid."

And that stupid girl from the New York Times reporting on all the new businesses creating a glimmer of niceness wasn't she STUPID to not find all the exciting Black-owned businesses in Corktown and include a few:

"Of course, it’s true that Corktown is a Detroit neighborhood that has had its fair share of white residents over the years, but it still rankles us that the New York Times comes to Detroit regularly, but only visits neighborhoods like Corktown and Midtown, almost exclusively covers businesses that are white-owned, white-operated and catering to whites, when Detroit is 82 percent black. You’d think you’d like some representative coverage, yes?”

[Detroitnerd]

And that stupid girl from the New York Times reporting on all the new businesses creating a glimmer of niceness wasn't she STUPID to not find all the exciting Black-owned businesses in Corktown and include a few:

If it wasn't stupid, why did she apologize?

[Wesley Mouch]

If it wasn't stupid, why did she apologize?

Because the activists of the left will burn her at the cross if she doesn't flail herself first. Or maybe she just wants to speak at a university commencement and not be booed off the stage?

[Detroitnerd]

Because the activists of the left will burn her at the cross if she doesn't flail herself first. Or maybe she just wants to speak at a university commencement and not be booed off the stage?

Too dramatic. When journalists get stuff wrong, they sometimes apologize.

I swear, for all the invective some of our Caucasian posters here heap upon Al Sharpton, they often behave like white versions of him when it comes to stuff like this.

[Dan Wesson]

The plan must be old because there are no structures present when veiwing google maps now on the SE corner of Alter and Kercheval. It looks like the street is going to be closed mid block by barricades and the [[empty?) liquor store is gonna disappear. Seems awfully tight for a round about at Wayburn. Wayburn is residential and Kercheval is throttled down already at the corners. This setup is not for auto traffic. That stuff about using the alley to skirt around is all talk.

[corktownyuppie]

Well for me this is less about race and more about walkability. I'm glad it's not as welcoming to motorists from any direction. Paris is not welcoming to motorists. I think it's a great place to be.

[Detroitnerd]

Well for me this is less about race and more about walkability. I'm glad it's not as welcoming to motorists from any direction. Paris is not welcoming to motorists. I think it's a great place to be.

And I understand that you feel that way. But perhaps in your impatience to dismiss the connotations the market presents, you miss the way this is certain to alienate and disturb Detroiters. Detroiters, especially African-American Detroiters, have a long history of being faced with walls and barriers to hem them in. In the case of the Grosse Pointes, the barriers were often social -- a "points system" employed by real estate agents to keep out ethnic whites, Jews and blacks -- as well as the physical blocking-off of through streets.

Might I suggest that this is an opportunity to explore that history and perhaps develop a sensitivity to these issues that will help bridge these divides, rather that waving them away in the interest of leaving a stubborn problem unexamined?

[corktownyuppie]

And I understand that you feel that way. But perhaps in your impatience to dismiss the connotations the market presents, you miss the way this is certain to alienate and disturb Detroiters. Detroiters, especially African-American Detroiters, have a long history of being faced with walls and barriers to hem them in. In the case of the Grosse Pointes, the barriers were often social -- a "points system" employed by real estate agents to keep out ethnic whites, Jews and blacks -- as well as the physical blocking-off of through streets.

Might I suggest that this is an opportunity to explore that history and perhaps develop a sensitivity to these issues that will help bridge these divides, rather that waving them away in the interest of leaving a stubborn problem unexamined?

Well that's what I was asking you when I said...

how would you suggest they have done it differently?

Your response was:

If the city fathers didn't realize after blocking off the street with a pile of snow that blocking off the street was controversial, I don't know what to tell them. Maybe they should block off the street with a public sculpture of a burning cross instead ... jesus ...

Remember, I grew up on the wrong side of Mack Ave at the GPP border. I know all too well the feelings of being ostracized, excluded, alienated, etc. I'm not dismissing the connotations of the market. I can understand how the intentions can be misconstrued. But I also think the people misconstruing have a part to play in finding solutions as well. GPP has explicitly stated, and with no equivocation or code words, that DETROITERS ARE WELCOME to the market.

So is there more they can do? I'm not sure. Part of me wonders if Detroiters will feel alienated no matter what is done. But of course I'm open to further discussion. Which leads me to repeating the original question...

How would you have done it differently?

[Detroitnerd]

... Which leads me to repeating the original question... How would you have done it differently?

You confuse the function of criticism with that of uplift. Those criticizing bad ideas are under no onus to tweak a bad idea. Some ideas are simply bad ones.

Stated simply: Putting the market there shouldn't have been done in the first place. Too many Detroiters will see the market for what it is: a barrier. A barrier with a big locally-grown, completely organic, GMO-free, sustainable happy face slapped on it, but a barrier nonetheless.

[Danny]

It's horrible!!! It's Richville's way to cut off the black community from the white community. Demarcation in action folks. Next thing those rich white folks want is cut off every last neighborhood street from Mack Ave.

[corktownyuppie]

If your final conclusion is that they should just not put the market up at all, then I guess it is what it is.

It does beg an interesting question. Can the impoverished ever really feel welcomed by the privileged? I think we can [[and should) make honest attempts, but in the end, maybe every decision, every action, every opinion is going to be misunderstood.

I'm poor, you're my rich next door neighbor. You buy a big boat. I see this as you "rubbing it in my face". Then you invite me to join you, "I see this as you taking pity on me". Finally I may realize that your intentions are sincere, but I feel "inadequate" in relating to you because there is no real give and take in our relationship.

This stuff is complex stuff. And I do think that there's a lot to be discussed. But I will stop short at agreeing that the solution is for you to simply not buy the boat because if the way it will make me feel.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

And I understand that you feel that way. But perhaps in your impatience to dismiss the connotations the market presents, you miss the way this is certain to alienate and disturb Detroiters. Detroiters, especially African-American Detroiters, have a long history of being faced with walls and barriers to hem them in. In the case of the Grosse Pointes, the barriers were often social -- a "points system" employed by real estate agents to keep out ethnic whites, Jews and blacks -- as well as the physical blocking-off of through streets.

Might I suggest that this is an opportunity to explore that history and perhaps develop a sensitivity to these issues that will help bridge these divides, rather that waving them away in the interest of leaving a stubborn problem unexamined?

Det Nerd
Well I guess the ultimate test will be whether or not they accept food stamps at said marketville, if they do well its frickin Kumbaya land and all is right in the world...if not it becomes highly suspect and we turn the clock of progress backwards.