So...M1 Officially Having Money Issues Now...

**brizee** · June-18-14, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

http://m-1rail.com/statement-media-r...-rail-funding/

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I'm nowhere near a PR guy.

Don't most corporations not comment on rumors and bad news...unless it's too accurate and then they outright deny it only to days/weeks later confirm it?

**dtowncitylover** · June-18-14, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

I'm nowhere near a PR guy.

Don't most corporations not comment on rumors and bad news...unless it's too accurate and then they outright deny it only to days/weeks later confirm it?

Or they could be saying the news of my death has been greatly exaggerated.

**ABetterDetroit** · June-18-14, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Yeah, the Big Dig in Boston at $14.6 Billion, billons over original budget, makes M1 Rail look like a routine shopping trip to Target.

Big dig was 10B + fed funded. Compared to that it makes M-1 look like the Feds threw a few coins from the ashtray out the window as the light termed green.

**animatedmartian** · June-18-14, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Or they could be saying the news of my death has been greatly exaggerated.

It would be kind of stupid is the project was cancelled just because they couldn't cover 8% of the cost.

**professorscott** · June-18-14, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

It would be kind of stupid is the project was cancelled just because they couldn't cover 8% of the cost.

It won't be, despite the fact that many of our fellow DYers would like to see it die, so that all of those fantasy transit projects supposedly waiting in the wings could come to the forefront. In truth, M1 is the only transit project likely to actually begin operations in the next five years, in the best of circumstances.

**Honky Tonk** · June-18-14, 09:58 PM

Good, I want to see Mike and Dan get what they deserve.

**Dexlin** · June-18-14, 10:35 PM

So, Cullen & Co. get caught for making exaggerated claims of hardship in a letter to the FTA to try and secure an important, but not completely consequential TIGER grant. Not only does M-1 have to admit after getting caught that the project won't be cancelled, but that even the loss of the grant won't require scaling back the alreay scaled back extenet of the project. The local media, always looking for drama, further exaggerates the exaggeration with misleading headlines, which they have to correct later in the day because they get called on their BS. lol All the while, all that needs to be done to get shovels in the ground are permits from the city council which will almost certainly be approved next week.

So much drama over so small and issue. Welcome to the real world, I guess. But, this has to be expected when you have a project headed up by the titans of industry who couldn't possibly give their undivided attention to this project. It's not as if this is their day job.

Anyway, the train is coming. It' sucks that's it taken this long and with all of this drama, particularly when you consider that this thing is going to be so popular folks will be begging for the line to be extended. Sucks this couldn't have been done right from the beginning, but better late and short than never at all, I guess. Hopefully, they can get this thing up and running before the RTA gets too far with that ridiculous BRT the powers-that-be sold out this project for.

**detmsp** · June-18-14, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

It won't be, despite the fact that many of our fellow DYers would like to see it die, so that all of those fantasy transit projects supposedly waiting in the wings could come to the forefront. In truth, M1 is the only transit project likely to actually begin operations in the next five years, in the best of circumstances.

Are you saying that we won't be seeing this proposed regional BRT in the next 5 years either? That's pretty disappointing if so.

**stasu1213** · June-19-14, 07:21 AM

This whole thing is probably a scam. The ones who are funding had not come up with the final design of the train itself. I can't believe how naive bloggers are when they hear reports on the project will start next month, next week, tomorrow. You are surprised when the project had been stalled for the 5th or 6th time. There is a movement working behind the scenes to make sure that the project doesn't happen. I don't care what Planner and others believe

**YounginDetroit** · June-19-14, 07:30 AM

^^^^^Idiot...

**wolverine** · June-19-14, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Yeah, the Big Dig in Boston at $14.6 Billion, billons over original budget, makes M1 Rail look like a routine shopping trip to Target.

$200 million was the overhaul cost of one single CTA station, so yeah...I'm annoyed a relatively affordable transit line of new construction is being held up over $12 million.

**dtowncitylover** · June-19-14, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

This whole thing is probably a scam. The ones who are funding had not come up with the final design of the train itself. I can't believe how naive bloggers are when they hear reports on the project will start next month, next week, tomorrow. You are surprised when the project had been stalled for the 5th or 6th time. There is a movement working behind the scenes to make sure that the project doesn't happen. I don't care what Planner and others believe

I'm not surprised when it's delayed because many things in the Detroit area have been delayed [[and yes, then cancelled). But to it's a scam ala great American streetcar scandal, is quite out there in conspiracy theory land. Who would this even benefit if it were a scam?

**Honky Tonk** · June-19-14, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

I'm not surprised when it's delayed because many things in the Detroit area have been delayed [[and yes, then cancelled). But to it's a scam ala great American streetcar scandal, is quite out there in conspiracy theory land. Who would this even benefit if it were a scam?

Dan & Mike. If the State cried, "Oh no, don't cancel it, we'll commit to the funding..." Who stands to benefit? Notice one thing though, in the last couple of months, the conversation has slowly turned from "viable and reliable mass transit in Detroit" to "Blight Rail, by any means necessary".

**DetroitPlanner** · June-19-14, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

$200 million was the overhaul cost of one single CTA station, so yeah...I'm annoyed a relatively affordable transit line of new construction is being held up over $12 million.

Where did you get that number from? $200 million to overhaul one station? Which Station is this? Oglive? Does it include the tower too, and all of the track? The I-96 reconstruction is half that including 8 miles of pavement and about 40 bridges, all taken out, reshaped and put back in brand new.

**illwill** · June-19-14, 09:20 AM

What Wolverine didn't mention is that Chicago's projects will ALWAYS cost 40 times more than they normally should, because palms are being greased like a mo-fo in Chicago. Chicago tax payers are continually getting ripped off by paying the waste-tax or corruption tax. Whatever it's called. But i will say one thing...the project ALWAYS gets done in Chicago because at the end of the day, everyone of those crooks wants their share of "grease" money.

I've compared... For example, a small children's park built in Ann Arbor might cost $250,000.00. In Chicago, the exact same park will be $2.5mil. Waste!!

**professorscott** · June-19-14, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by detmsp

Are you saying that we won't be seeing this proposed regional BRT in the next 5 years either? That's pretty disappointing if so.

That's what I'm saying, and it's not remarkable. Look at any BRT project anywhere in the United States, and see how long it takes, start to finish. Then add in the fact that no vote to fund such a system will even take place until 2016. I'm not saying we won't be working on it during the intervening time, but I can almost guarantee that any portion of such a system won't be up and running until 2019 at the very earliest.

M1 Rail is worth looking at, just to give an idea. The original concept was worked out in 2007. The projected opening date is 2016, nine years later. It takes time to apply for and work out the required funding; it takes time to do the necessary environmental reviews; it takes time to do the project engineering; procurement of the vehicles takes longer than you'd think; the actual construction is quite involved and takes a lot of time. This is true anywhere and everywhere, I'm not picking on metro Detroit.

**dtowncitylover** · June-19-14, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Dan & Mike. If the State cried, "Oh no, don't cancel it, we'll commit to the funding..." Who stands to benefit? Notice one thing though, in the last couple of months, the conversation has slowly turned from "viable and reliable mass transit in Detroit" to "Blight Rail, by any means necessary".

Still doesn't answer how they would benefit. If it cancels they would get their money back, I suppose. But what they gave is little compared to their and their companies' own worth.

**Honky Tonk** · June-19-14, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Still doesn't answer how they would benefit. If it cancels they would get their money back, I suppose. But what they gave is little compared to their and their companies' own worth.

I'm sorry, I don't seem to be getting your question. Are you talking about benefitting by releasing a story that they're $12 mil short and the Blight Rail might not be built? It's a fishing expedition. They're looking to see who's willing to step up to the plate to fill the void. If someone picks, up the slack, they benefit. [[I hope I understood your question correctly)

**dtowncitylover** · June-19-14, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I'm sorry, I don't seem to be getting your question. Are you talking about benefitting by releasing a story that they're $12 mil short and the Blight Rail might not be built? It's a fishing expedition. They're looking to see who's willing to step up to the plate to fill the void. If someone picks, up the slack, they benefit. [[I hope I understood your question correctly)

Oh no, I meant who benefits from it being completely cancelled. But I see where you are coming from, sorry for the misunderstanding. Of course they benefit if it gets built, that's why they are supporting this project because transit is an economic booster. But usually everyone benefits, not just the "1%".

**Honky Tonk** · June-19-14, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Oh no, I meant who benefits from it being completely cancelled. But I see where you are coming from, sorry for the misunderstanding. Of course they benefit if it gets built, that's why they are supporting this project because transit is an economic booster. But usually everyone benefits, not just the "1%".

I totally disagree. A few months ago I responded by asking how this benefits a guy in Brightmoor, waiting for a bus to get to work. Every time I responded, I pointed out he's still waiting for a bus. well, he's still waiting for a bus. The Blight Rail won't be doing the majority of Detroiters any good. It will only benefit a handful, if that, of Detroiters. On top of that, we're going to be on the hook for maintenance, and probably funding. Let's get reliable mass transportation in place first, then get 5 choo-choo's and paint them pink and green for all I care. I'm sure Dan's wife would approve.

**Bobl** · June-19-14, 01:35 PM

Why not a dedicated fleet of clean buses with security, that run on a dependable schedule?

**animatedmartian** · June-19-14, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Bobl

Why not a dedicated fleet of clean buses with security, that run on a dependable schedule?

Because that is DDOT's issue to take up.

**stasu1213** · June-19-14, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Still doesn't answer how they would benefit. If it cancels they would get their money back, I suppose. But what they gave is little compared to their and their companies' own worth.

Dan Gilbert probably wouldn't benefit from the cancellation of the light rail. He probably stepped into this project not understanding and now realizing the expense that he and others will be taking on to operate the train and the obstacles that are in front of him.

**dtowncitylover** · June-19-14, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I totally disagree. A few months ago I responded by asking how this benefits a guy in Brightmoor, waiting for a bus to get to work. Every time I responded, I pointed out he's still waiting for a bus. well, he's still waiting for a bus. The Blight Rail won't be doing the majority of Detroiters any good. It will only benefit a handful, if that, of Detroiters. On top of that, we're going to be on the hook for maintenance, and probably funding. Let's get reliable mass transportation in place first, then get 5 choo-choo's and paint them pink and green for all I care. I'm sure Dan's wife would approve.

A reliable, safe bus system is still not mass transit. DDOT is doing their best to ensure reliable schedules and safe trips but even with a good bus system it won't be an economic booster because it's still a bus system, that's not its job. Building the first streetcar route with the hope of more and rebuilding a poor bus system is on our way to mass transit.

I'm sorry for the guy in Brightmoor. It's not coming to Royal Oak either, so I will still wait for a bus, but I know it's a first step to a more expansive and reliable system which can and will lead to economic stability and population growth.

And of course we're on the "hook" for it, it's PUBLIC transporation.

**Honky Tonk** · June-19-14, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

A reliable, safe bus system is still not mass transit. DDOT is doing their best to ensure reliable schedules and safe trips but even with a good bus system it won't be an economic booster because it's still a bus system, that's not its job. Building the first streetcar route with the hope of more and rebuilding a poor bus system is on our way to mass transit.

I'm sorry for the guy in Brightmoor. It's not coming to Royal Oak either, so I will still wait for a bus, but I know it's a first step to a more expansive and reliable system which can and will lead to economic stability and population growth.

And of course we're on the "hook" for it, it's PUBLIC transporation.

Time, of course, will tell. But I doubt the whole idea will get much further than 3.3 miles. Taking the money from the Blight Rail, investing it to seriously brace up the bus system, to me, would really be a step in the right direction. Has Detroit paid off the People Remover yet?