Megabus cancelled Detroit-Cleveland-Pittsburgh route

**DetroitPlanner** · June-14-14, 09:15 AM

The current Amtrak schedule is set to get passengers to the hub in Chicago, not to get folks from Ann Arbor to Detroit; or vice-versa. This is why [[along with M-1). There are people [[this sites favorite anti-transit folks at MDOT, SEMCOG, or RTA) out there still pushing for a service to augment the existing trains along this corridor.

**Hermod** · June-14-14, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by A2Mike

Not only is long distance travel [[I'll arbitrarily define that as more than a five hour drive) problematic, but regional transit in SE Michigan is practically nonexistent. I'm retired, line in Ann Arbor and don't like driving but would enjoy visiting Detroit about once a month. Ideally that would mean getting into town in mid to late morning and returning in mid to late afternoon, allowing perhaps a trip to the DIA, lunch somwhere, or maybe a stop at John King's [[I won't even get into the subject of evening events such as opera or symphony). Presently there is no Megabus, a few Greyhound buses which are not well timed for day trips into town, and a couple of Amtrak trains, also poorly timed, and undependable as well, making any type of commuter travel, for work or pleasure, impossible. One has been hearing for years about an Ann Arbor-Detroit commuter train, but it always in the "future", and uses the same tracks which constantly delay the few Amtrak trains there are [[the first thing Amtrak should have done over forty years ago was get dedicated tracks but of course they did it backwards). Many years ago there were Budd rail diesel cars [[self powered passenger cars) in service from Jackson to Detroit, which would be cheaper to buy and run than full trains. Absent that, a truly well coordinated system of express buses, using existing freeways, might be viable and save on the infrastructure costs of trains, providing useful and dependable regional transit.

With the 1963 discontinuation of Railway Post offices [[RPO), the railroads were discontinuing trains right and left. Every single railroad could make a case for abandonment of its passengers trains because they were losing money. The 1971 Railpax agreement was that the newly formed AMTRAK would allow all of the railroads to discontinue their passenger trains. In return, the railroads would give AMTRAK all of their the most modern [[20-25 years old) passenger equipment and permit AMTRAK to operate over their rails. There was no money for new track or new equipment at the time. Was AMTRAK a great and wonderful thing? No, but it kept a skeleton rail network going instead of steady and sure abandonment of all passenger rail.

**A2Mike** · June-14-14, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

A2Mike, your post is just bubbling with truth. Aside from issues involving delays, Detroit-Ann Arbor rail [[through Amtrak) isn't frequent, reliable or cheap enough to be of significant value for commuters in the area. Without construction of a new, dedicated set of heavy rails or a light rail line, I don't think a non-Amtrak rail service could offer anything in the way of a fast, frequent, inexpensive rail trip between AA & Detroit. Even if such Magical Tracks were to just appear, I am still not convinced such a service would have enough passengers to justify even the operating subsidy [[let alone construction and equipment acquisition).

I am not opposed to AA-Detroit rail, if the technical details could be worked out, and the financial loss was both minimized and stable. Also, no commuter service linking the 2 cities is worth the bother or expense if it doesn't connect directly to the airport. Until such time, regular express bus service could be done for far less money, with stops in Detroit, Dearborn, airport, Ypsi and AA. That would also help demonstrate what actual demand there would be for rail service.

I hope I'm not coming off as hopelessly parochial for citing my own situation but I'm sure many older [[and younger) people in the metro area, whether in Bimingham, Farmington, Dearborn, Wyandotte, St. Claire Shores or Sterling Heights, might enjoy day or evening excursions into the city, whether for sports, theatrical or cultural events, dining, and maybe even someday for shopping without the traffic, parking, weather, and other hassles and hazards of day and night driving, and I like your idea of a bus service as an index of support for possible rail service.

**Pale Justice** · June-14-14, 04:48 PM

How is all of this "coastal cities" discussion relevant? Looking at the Greyhound site, you can get a ticket from Detroit to Cleveland for $14, or Detroit to Pittsburgh for $25. That seems competitive to me. The Pittsburgh service does take a long time, but 3.5 hours to Cleveland isn't going to kill anybody.

**rooms222** · June-14-14, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Pale Justice

How is all of this "coastal cities" discussion relevant? Looking at the Greyhound site, you can get a ticket from Detroit to Cleveland for $14, or Detroit to Pittsburgh for $25. That seems competitive to me. The Pittsburgh service does take a long time, but 3.5 hours to Cleveland isn't going to kill anybody.

If you leave Monday 8/18 and come back 8/25, you can get a round trip on Megabus from Toledo to NYC for $60 right now. The bad thing is their station is not downtown.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-14-14, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by A2Mike

I hope I'm not coming off as hopelessly parochial for citing my own situation but I'm sure many older [[and younger) people in the metro area, whether in Bimingham, Farmington, Dearborn, Wyandotte, St. Claire Shores or Sterling Heights, might enjoy day or evening excursions into the city, whether for sports, theatrical or cultural events, dining, and maybe even someday for shopping without the traffic, parking, weather, and other hassles and hazards of day and night driving, and I like your idea of a bus service as an index of support for possible rail service.

There are no railroads anywhere close to Farmington. Your Sterling Heights train would have you taking your charming excursion looking at 20+ miles of the ass-end of crappy factories. SMART service between Sterling Heights and Downtown is excellent.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-14-14, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by rooms222

If you leave Monday 8/18 and come back 8/25, you can get a round trip on Megabus from Toledo to NYC for $60 right now. The bad thing is their station is not downtown.

What is so bad about that? You will need a ride or drive to Toledo to catch it. There is a lot more stuff to do around U of T than downtown anyway.

**rooms222** · June-15-14, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

What is so bad about that? You will need a ride or drive to Toledo to catch it. There is a lot more stuff to do around U of T than downtown anyway.

As long as you get a ride, nothing. If you can't get a ride, if Megabus was downtown, you could take Greyhound to Toledo and then walk over to Megabus.

**mtburb** · June-15-14, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by rooms222

As long as you get a ride, nothing. If you can't get a ride, if Megabus was downtown, you could take Greyhound to Toledo and then walk over to Megabus.

Or if there was actually train service, you can take the Erie Line to Toledo, then transfer to a TARTA bus to U-T to transfer to Megabus.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-15-14, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by mtburb

Or if there was actually train service, you can take the Erie Line to Toledo, then transfer to a TARTA bus to U-T to transfer to Megabus.

Actually Amtrak does offer service between Detroit and Toledo via the 6030 or 6048 bus. Takes a little more than an hour.

**Dumpling** · June-15-14, 02:26 PM

A while back while waiting for a bus at Fairlane Mall in Dearborn I had time to study
all of the schedules there. There was a bus that went by Fairlane to Monroe,
which has a bus system of its own, and there may well be a connection to Toledo
from there as well, but I don't know about it! [[A Monroe person can chime in now).

**Dumpling** · June-15-14, 04:45 PM

I was looking at bus maps online. SMART shows a route #140 to Wyandotte; from
Wyandotte one can take #160 to Trenton, Grosse Ile, and West Road. In Monroe
County the bus service is called Lake Erie Transit. It does not connect directly with
either Trenton or Toledo.

**mtburb** · June-15-14, 08:07 PM

It's unbelievable that other than Amtrak Thruway and Greyhound service, there is still a lack of a transit connection from Detroit to Toledo-we already have one with Flint, one with Port Huron-and technically, one with Ann Arbor at Metro Airport.

Do TARTA and Lake Erie Transit buses have bike racks? If they did, then it is possible for one to board route #125 to Eureka Road, then transfer to #160 to Trenton, then bike to the Mall of Monroe [[or whatever furthest north LET's fixed-route system actually goes), then ride LET buses south to the southernmost extent to that system, then bike again to the closest TARTA gets to the state line and board TARTA buses to downtown Toledo.

In fact, SMART #110 actually had one AM rush-hour trip that actually extended into Woodhaven until that city opted out in 1995, while #830 used to continue south to Gibraltar until that city also opted out that same year.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-15-14, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpling

A while back while waiting for a bus at Fairlane Mall in Dearborn I had time to study
all of the schedules there. There was a bus that went by Fairlane to Monroe,
which has a bus system of its own, and there may well be a connection to Toledo
from there as well, but I don't know about it! [[A Monroe person can chime in now).

TARTA does not go into Michigan. LETC [[Lake Erie Transit Commission) only has linehaul in the Monroe urban area. LETC does provide paratransit in the South tier of the county but it is difficult to find a link from Monroe to Toledo. Heck I am somewhat surprised there is one from Fairlane to Monroe! You sure they did not mean Monroe Street? There are two along Michigan.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · June-16-14, 11:48 AM

Is Continental Trailways still around? Haven't seen a bus in a while.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-16-14, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Is Continental Trailways still around? Haven't seen a bus in a while.

The only other two operating in Michigan are Greyhound and Indian Trails/Trailways. Trails operates mostly in the North and Greyhound in the South. http://www.marp.org/MDOT-intercity_m..._map_04-10.pdf

**rooms222** · June-16-14, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

The only other two operating in Michigan are Greyhound and Indian Trails/Trailways. Trails operates mostly in the North and Greyhound in the South. http://www.marp.org/MDOT-intercity_m..._map_04-10.pdf

I believe Miller now serves Benton Harbor-South Bend-Indianapolis [[not Kalamazoo as in the map). Baron Bus Lines does Detroit-Lincoln Park-Toledo-Fort Wayne-Indianapolis.

Indian Trails' online reservation system tries to find you routes that do not use Greyhound as a first choice.

**Dumpling** · June-17-14, 02:24 PM

Okay, so I checked the Fairlane Mall posted schedules. Only SMART is there, and
it can take you as far as Eureka/Biddle. Checking AMTRAK online shows two Amtrak
[[Metrocars?) chartered bus numbers leaving from the Dearborn Amtrak station at the
same time in the evening. My guess is there is in fact usually only one bus. Once
one arrives at Toledo, one can take an overnight train that will arrive in Pittsburgh
at about five in the morning. Sorry for the earlier error about a bus going to Monroe
from Fairlane Mall.