I-375 New Options

[Satiricalivory]

Thank you so much for filling us in! Really appreciate this information. I'm not surprised all the big Detroit business leaders are fully on board since a project like this directly benefits them.

Intersection below Jefferson? I'm not sure what that means. I really hope they don't try to do anything convoluted. The whole point of doing something like this is to bring simplicity and walkability back to the urban fabric.

[JonWylie]

Thank you so much for filling us in! Really appreciate this information. I'm not surprised all the big Detroit business leaders are fully on board since a project like this directly benefits them.

Intersection below Jefferson? I'm not sure what that means. I really hope they don't try to do anything convoluted. The whole point of doing something like this is to bring simplicity and walkability back to the urban fabric.

Yeah below was kind of a bad choice of words on my part. The intersections of the new boulevard, south of Jefferson towards the River. The roads are Woodbridge, Franklin, and Atwater. They didn't specify what type of intersection they would be, either light, 4 way stop, yield, ROW, roundabout, etc. They said roundabout is probably not going to happen, but they want to explore where the most traffic will be and really want to stress the connectivity to the river. That being said, I predict we'll see a ROW for the new boulevard with stop signs on the cross streets.

[bust]

Huge Thanks JonWylie, and not just for the update. It means so much more to back up your virtual words with real life action, and by attending the meeting and voicing your opinions in person. You did!

I totally agree with those have said there should be fewer lanes. Much better transit would help make our case. Maybe someday those two will come together.

Great news on the U-M plans, and for mixed use on the "excess land" that will be opened on the Lafayette Park side too.

[Scottathew]

[JonWylie]

This might help

Shortly before the holiday recess, then-Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer and a coalition of 25 Democratic senators introduced a $435 billion economic justice bill called S5065 that included a $10-billion pilot program aimed at helping communities tear down urban highways, and rebuild the surrounding neighborhoods with the needs of underserved communities in mind. The Restoring Neighborhoods and Strengthening Communities Program — known among advocates as the “Highways to Boulevards” initiative — would only be available for projects located in regions with a high concentration of low income residents or residents of color.

[bust]

This might help

Could the destroyed be recreated?
So much lost,
And what could have been
Had the buds not been clipped.
Exponential growth.

[Satiricalivory]

435 billion wouldn't even come close to making inner cities whole for the damage and sabotage the federal government has done to them.

How about combine it with a federal loan/grant program so people can actually buy back into these restored places.

[JTburner]

I don't have access to detnews but looks like there was may be an update?

https://www.detroitnews.com/restrict...F4715658001%2F

[EGrant]

Not particularly. The article has some nice visualizations of the project, history of how it impacted [[aka, destroyed) Black Bottom and Paradise Valley and some of the next steps, which include getting approval from the Federal Highway Administration and public comment.

[rbdetsport]

Not particularly. The article has some nice visualizations of the project, history of how it impacted [[aka, destroyed) Black Bottom and Paradise Valley and some of the next steps, which include getting approval from the Federal Highway Administration and public comment.

I disagree, I actually think that there were several anecdotes of particular importance..

“... Weighing in last month, the CEO of billionaire Dan Gilbert's real estate development company dropped a memo to MDOT outlining the company's priorities for the project.

Kofi Bonner of Bedrock said he'd like to see bike lanes on both borders of the boulevard, not just the east side the way it's drawn on a mock-up. He wants traffic connections to Brush Park and the site of the former Brewster-Douglass housing projects, where Bedrock has developments in the works. He wants construction delays minimized.



But the first item on his list is fewer lanes...”"

[JonWylie]

I disagree, I actually think that there were several anecdotes of particular importance..

“... Weighing in last month, the CEO of billionaire Dan Gilbert's real estate development company dropped a memo to MDOT outlining the company's priorities for the project.

Kofi Bonner of Bedrock said he'd like to see bike lanes on both borders of the boulevard, not just the east side the way it's drawn on a mock-up. He wants traffic connections to Brush Park and the site of the former Brewster-Douglass housing projects, where Bedrock has developments in the works. He wants construction delays minimized.



But the first item on his list is fewer lanes...”"

When I spoke to one of the engineers at the meeting he said that Bedrock has been very active in trying to get this project moving along and that he was hopeful it would get moved up in part because of Bedrock, so I think that quote does hold quite a bit of significance.

He said BCBS was the real sourpuss about it, but they've come around.

[Atticus]

I disagree, I actually think that there were several anecdotes of particular importance..

“... Weighing in last month, the CEO of billionaire Dan Gilbert's real estate development company dropped a memo to MDOT outlining the company's priorities for the project.

Kofi Bonner of Bedrock said he'd like to see bike lanes on both borders of the boulevard, not just the east side the way it's drawn on a mock-up. He wants traffic connections to Brush Park and the site of the former Brewster-Douglass housing projects, where Bedrock has developments in the works. He wants construction delays minimized.



But the first item on his list is fewer lanes...”"

As a bicyclist myself, I am very pro-bike facilities. Detroit has made a lot of improvements over the past few years, but still has a ways to go to be truly bike friendly.

That all being said, one of my biggest annoyances with my bicyclist brethren is so many argue that every street needs bike lanes, which I think really hurts our cause. Every street does not need bike lanes, including this new 375 boulevard.

The bicyclist focus should be on better accommodations for us going east-west across the boulevard, and not really north-south. Even if reimagined as a pretty boulevard, 375 is functionally still a road for cars to get to/from I-75. As a bicyclist, I have no need to get to I-75. Instead provide me safe and convenient ways to bike east-west, and leave north-south to the cars.

I’d much rather they focus on St Antoine or Brush for us bicyclists going north-south to Brush Park, like what was done on Cass. Just because I can, I have no desire to ride on streets that are very car congested. That includes Woodward north of Grand Circus, and will include whatever design they come up for 375. So put the bike emphasis on east-west, not north-south.

[Satiricalivory]

When I spoke to one of the engineers at the meeting he said that Bedrock has been very active in trying to get this project moving along and that he was hopeful it would get moved up in part because of Bedrock, so I think that quote does hold quite a bit of significance.

Not at all surprising since this is a massive benefit to downtown and the city.

[Hermod]

Could the destroyed be recreated?
So much lost,
And what could have been
Had the buds not been clipped.
Exponential growth.

Considering that the population of Detroit is about 40% of what it was when the neighborhoods were demolished, does it make sense to build new homes?

[Jason]

If Gilbert means having road gutter bike lanes then that's a bad idea. Ideally bike lanes are completely separate from the road. The two way bike track MDOT has is actually pretty good except for the size of the road and the intersections [[some people have suggested bicycle underpasses, which is what would be done in countries that take cycling more seriously, but reducing the number of lanes would help as well).

[Ray1936]

I quit riding a bicycle when I left my Detroit Times paper route back in 1950. Ain't been on one since. I think you guys who look at them as the holy grail have a screw loose. Just sayin'. Take your shots.

[Gistok]

I quit riding a bicycle when I left my Detroit Times paper route back in 1950. Ain't been on one since. I think you guys who look at them as the holy grail have a screw loose. Just sayin'. Take your shots.

Oh Ray... when you get to a certain age you like to get your exercise that includes sitting down.

I had a mountain bike for 10 years before I started riding it. Living in St. Clair Shores, there are no bike friendly routes, except for neighborhood streets. I take the sidewalks on major streets, and the police don't mind. I finally started riding my mountain bike when I turned 50, and do so almost daily [[never on mile roads or major cross streets), 9 months of the year. More fun than walking...

And during the pandemic, it helped to de-stress.

[bust]

As a bicyclist myself, I am very pro-bike facilities. Detroit has made a lot of improvements over the past few years, but still has a ways to go to be truly bike friendly.

That all being said, one of my biggest annoyances with my bicyclist brethren is so many argue that every street needs bike lanes, which I think really hurts our cause. Every street does not need bike lanes, including this new 375 boulevard.

The bicyclist focus should be on better accommodations for us going east-west across the boulevard, and not really north-south. Even if reimagined as a pretty boulevard, 375 is functionally still a road for cars to get to/from I-75. As a bicyclist, I have no need to get to I-75. Instead provide me safe and convenient ways to bike east-west, and leave north-south to the cars.

I’d much rather they focus on St Antoine or Brush for us bicyclists going north-south to Brush Park, like what was done on Cass. Just because I can, I have no desire to ride on streets that are very car congested. That includes Woodward north of Grand Circus, and will include whatever design they come up for 375. So put the bike emphasis on east-west, not north-south.

That makes a LOT of sense.

[bust]

Considering that the population of Detroit is about 40% of what it was when the neighborhoods were demolished, does it make sense to build new homes?

I apologize, what I wrote was admittedly very unclear. I agree: it does not make sense.

My question was intended to be rhetorical. The next four lines were intended to provide [[part) of why the answer is obviously no. We lost not only what was destroyed, but all that would have flowered from those buds.

It's better to plan forward, not backward.
But we must learn from the mistakes of our past.

[royce]

On the Environmental Assessment, it shows that the previous plan has traffic signals below Jefferson, but they have been removed in the new preferred alternative. I'd be curious to see if they plan on 4 way stops, or what the alternative is. Wouldn't be a terrible place for some traffic circles.

I think stop signs will be sufficient south of Jefferson. Only GM traffic during rush hour might be an issue.

[royce]

Several weeks ago I caught the tail-end of a news story on Channel 7's 11 o'clock news that stated that the starting date for reconstruction of I-375 will take place in 2027. Has anyone seen this listed anywhere?

[Rocket]

Has any study been done as to how many workers, visitors etc to downtown will be lost if they replace the freeway with a boulevard?

While there is a benefit to businesses along the route when you can time the street lights badly and force cars to stop at every light, giving drivers time to see what stores are along the route.

But on the other hand, many will not want to go downtown at all if they have to stay on surface streets, which are much slower, and also less safe.

[southen]

Has any study been done as to how many workers, visitors etc to downtown will be lost if they replace the freeway with a boulevard?

While there is a benefit to businesses along the route when you can time the street lights badly and force cars to stop at every light, giving drivers time to see what stores are along the route.

But on the other hand, many will not want to go downtown at all if they have to stay on surface streets, which are much slower, and also less safe.

Although I can't find it I recall reading that it would add maybe 2 minutes to the commute with timed lights. If that is in fact true I doubt you lose a single person to the project. It will still be the most efficient way into downtown we have and plenty of lanes to accommodate traffic.

Furthermore should we prioritize downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods or worry about the guy living in Rochester spending an additional two minutes in their car before getting to work? If anyone is too discouraged to visit downtown due to a large surface street instead of freeway for less than a mile then they were probably looking for an excuse not to visit anyway.

[kuuma]

Although I can't find it I recall reading that it would add maybe 2 minutes to the commute with timed lights. If that is in fact true I doubt you lose a single person to the project.

And considering you can still use the Lodge – which you can catch from 75 both directions – to get to lower downtown anyway, 375 was never not redundant. Its removal will inconvenience literally no one, to the benefit of many.

[royce]

If any of you have read some of my posts regarding MDOT, you know that I am not a fan of the organization. My biggest beef was MDOT's decision to put a median down Livernois. I still wonder if any of those decision makers were still around when the decision was made to eliminate the median at Livernois, Seven Mile [[aka The Avenue of Fashion). Probably the only positive decision that MDOT has ever made, in my opinion.

Regarding this project, I still think that they aren't doing this project correctly. I've pointed out what I don't like about it in several prior posts, so I'm not going to rehash all of my points here. However, I just want to add one more thought. As I look at the current rendering, I just wonder why MDOT decided not to keep the basic footprint of the service drives intact and just add bike lanes and parking lanes to both sides of the proposed boulevard? This would mean that the actual median would be wider than what the median is in the rendering. A median the width of medians found on streets like East Grand Boulevard [[north of Mack to Gratiot) and Moross [[south of Kelly to Mack) would truly make this road a boulevard. Well, my last two cents on this topic.