Latest on study for Wayne County jail [[build or retrofit)

[Mackinaw]

Not sure why the court facility and short term holding facility should be taken out with Gilbert plan [[why ruin extant resources), but I am 200% in favor of abandoning fail jail, giving it to Gilbert, and developing Mound Road. If additional court facilities are needed, I feel there is a downtown solution. There's enough space in/around Frank Murphy.

Hotel demand? Well I had misgivings, too. Then I tried to book a room in either of the first two weekends of September-- not happening at the Book. Aloft [[right) is coming to David Whitney [[can't wait)...I think we could do one more, and something mid-market at fail jail is not the worst idea...short walks to stadia, greektown, and, uniquely, Eastern Market.

But residential MUST be the core component of this site, with a retail element right along Gratiot to create a walkable street.

And yeah the part facing '75 is a great place to tuck away an enormous parking garage.

[emu steve]

Not sure why the court facility and short term holding facility should be taken out with Gilbert plan [[why ruin extant resources), but I am 200% in favor of abandoning fail jail, giving it to Gilbert, and developing Mound Road. If additional court facilities are needed, I feel there is a downtown solution. There's enough space in/around Frank Murphy.

Hotel demand? Well I had misgivings, too. Then I tried to book a room in either of the first two weekends of September-- not happening at the Book. Aloft [[right) is coming to David Whitney [[can't wait)...I think we could do one more, and something mid-market at fail jail is not the worst idea...short walks to stadia, greektown, and, uniquely, Eastern Market.

But residential MUST be the core component of this site, with a retail element right along Gratiot to create a walkable street.

And yeah the part facing '75 is a great place to tuck away an enormous parking garage.

Sounds good.

The 'one more' hotel beautifully located within walking distance of the sports stadiums and Greektown casino would be perfect [[as discussed). Could be the "[[brand) Detroit Gateway Hotel".

I see Gratiot as a 'gateway' to downtown Detroit.

Wonder if it bound be built - long and narrow - along Gratiot from St. Antoine to the Service dr. and then join a residential building along St. Antoine to Mullett.

[mikeg19]

I think a lot of this development will have to do with what is developed on the Hudson's site. If Gilbert is going strictly office/residential on the Hudson's site, I'd be willing to bet a hotel component will be included into the fail jail site.

But that also lends another question: where does he build a Quicken Loans headquarters? It's no secret he wants a dedicated building for Quicken. Options:

1. Does he build on the Hudson's site if he gets the fail jail site and diverts that plan there?

2. Does he pickup the Statler site or another undeveloped parcel and build there?

3. If Compuware sells and moves, does he make a play for Compuware? [[Interesting to note: The backside wedge of Compuware was designed for an expansion if ever needed. That wedge could be filled in for more space, or even a tower in the back of the building. Then he gets all of Quicken into one building, and leases out his newly freed up properties.)


Food for thought, although I feel like the next couple months should tell us a great deal about his intentions. I believe his deadline for the Hudson's site was sometime in August?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I am bullish on downtown hotel space. I think downtown could add at least hundreds of rooms, over the course of a few years. As Mackinaw noted, there are a lot of times when it's hard to get a room, and not just during the auto show. When the arena opens downtown will have many more events than it currently does, which generates hotel demand. All the new residential also generates some hotel demand. So do all the small businesses opening.

[bailey]

I think a lot of this development will have to do with what is developed on the Hudson's site. If Gilbert is going strictly office/residential on the Hudson's site, I'd be willing to bet a hotel component will be included into the fail jail site.

But that also lends another question: where does he build a Quicken Loans headquarters? It's no secret he wants a dedicated building for Quicken. Options:

1. Does he build on the Hudson's site if he gets the fail jail site and diverts that plan there?

2. Does he pickup the Statler site or another undeveloped parcel and build there?

3. If Compuware sells and moves, does he make a play for Compuware? [[Interesting to note: The backside wedge of Compuware was designed for an expansion if ever needed. That wedge could be filled in for more space, or even a tower in the back of the building. Then he gets all of Quicken into one building, and leases out his newly freed up properties.)


Food for thought, although I feel like the next couple months should tell us a great deal about his intentions. I believe his deadline for the Hudson's site was sometime in August?

#3 is the rumor I've heard. and that is what is holding up the Meridian move too. the issue is Compuware's survival in 2015 once it's split into two companies....which are much more manageable portions for the sharks that have been circling since 2012. Could be a lot of deck chairs being rearranged downtown next year.


Also, not sure what sort of Hotel commitment Gilbert is going to make given the current floundering Greektown property. What it doesn't need is more competition.

[downtownguy]

RE: More downtown hotels...

Back when the casinos were going to save the city, somebody in the know told me it wasn't all about the casinos, but also about the hotels that were to come with them. Remember, originally they were each supposed to have 800 room hotels, which Kilpatrick renegotiated down to 400 rooms each when he got them off the riverfront. The reason given to me for the larger hotels was to address the chicken-and-egg problem of attracting more conventions to Cobo. Without more hotels, an expanded Cobo would not reach full potential, and without an expanded Cobo, hotels would not have enough business. Relatively speaking, downtown still is behind many other cities in the number of hotels within walking distance of it's convention facilities. So, it's possible that more hotel rooms downtown still figure into this equation.

RE: Sports teams staying at downtown hotels...

When I walk through the Ren Cen on Sundays, I often notice the visiting NFL team staying there. As was mentioned above, I think the Book-Cadillac attracted a lot of MLB business when it reopened, and I have seen the ropes and fans outside the main entrance on baseball game nights. I think Ilitch & Co. have used their influence to also get some MLB and NHL teams to stay at the Motor City Casino Hotel. I would be surprised if there are that many pro sports teams, other than NBA that stay in the burbs. That said, I think that's just icing on the cake, and most hotels would prefer a more robust and constant convention business.

[mikeg19]

#3 is the rumor I've heard. and that is what is holding up the Meridian move too. the issue is Compuware's survival in 2015 once it's split into two companies....which are much more manageable portions for the sharks that have been circling since 2012. Could be a lot of deck chairs being rearranged downtown next year.


Also, not sure what sort of Hotel commitment Gilbert is going to make given the current floundering Greektown property. What it doesn't need is more competition.

Couldn't agree with you more Bailey. I see Gilbert's initiative as work/live. Yes, he own's a couple hotels in casinos, but I think that's a different animal than a stand alone hotel. THe casino has something drawing people in; a Ramada doesn't. My take is he wants to bring residents downtown to spend cash at his properties. Simple as that. Retail and housing fit the mold.

[jt1]

I just hope, if he builds a hotel on the site, that he names it The FJ.

[DetroitPlanner]

I am bullish on downtown hotel space. I think downtown could add at least hundreds of rooms, over the course of a few years. As Mackinaw noted, there are a lot of times when it's hard to get a room, and not just during the auto show. When the arena opens downtown will have many more events than it currently does, which generates hotel demand. All the new residential also generates some hotel demand. So do all the small businesses opening.

THis arena will just replace an existing one that will close and most likely be used by Cobo [[another existing facility). The impact of playing this type of game is no different than a company moving from one building to another. If there are any additional nights of hotel stays generated it will at best be modest. Its not like the Palace is closing. Most folks out to party are most likely going to want to stay at the casino hotels.

[Mackinaw]

A large residential building would really be best for FJ site-- it should be at least the dominant use of that huge site. No reason not to put in housing for about 1,000 residents on that site. And as with much of the new central city housing, a large proportion would be new Detroit residents.

And again I see no reason why the extant criminal court complex should have to move, or why that would be fiscally sound for Wayne County. There are perfectly fine neighborhoods next to courts and adjoining detention facilities in other cities. It would not be a drawback.

[401don]

The problem with downtown hotel occupancy is that there is still not a strong weekday business clientele occupancy, which is the bread and butter for most cities. There just are not enough companies downtown. Detroit is unique in the fact that occupancy actually increases weekends.

[DetroitPlanner]

A large residential building would really be best for FJ site-- it should be at least the dominant use of that huge site. No reason not to put in housing for about 1,000 residents on that site. And as with much of the new central city housing, a large proportion would be new Detroit residents.

And again I see no reason why the extant criminal court complex should have to move, or why that would be fiscally sound for Wayne County. There are perfectly fine neighborhoods next to courts and adjoining detention facilities in other cities. It would not be a drawback.

It makes sense to have the court and the jail near each other for transferring prisoners. Frank Murphy is getting old as are some of the sections of the jail.

[jt1]

It makes sense to have the court and the jail near each other for transferring prisoners. Frank Murphy is getting old as are some of the sections of the jail.

Since it is a county prison and county courts we should put it in the center of the county to make it more accesible to everyone. Would that be around Melvindale?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

THis arena will just replace an existing one that will close and most likely be used by Cobo [[another existing facility). The impact of playing this type of game is no different than a company moving from one building to another. If there are any additional nights of hotel stays generated it will at best be modest. Its not like the Palace is closing. Most folks out to party are most likely going to want to stay at the casino hotels.

Equating the Joe with the new arena is a false comparison. It is not a reshuffling of existing space; it is a whole new entity. The new arena will, in addition to having the Wings, become SE Michigan's premier event arena. I know this has been hashed around this board for some time, but the Palace has dominated concerts and other shows in the area since it opened. I remember reading [[don't ask me where, I don't know) that they have more than 300 events per year. The new arena will be getting a lot of that business [[it will be newer and more modern, of course, but also close to downtown amenities and most of SE Michigan's population, not to mention Southern Ontario and Northern Ohio). The Joe largely hosts big events now when the Palace is booked, not because it is preferred for most events.

As for the Greektown Casino, it should be remembered that it's financial problems are due to very expensive refinancing several years ago. It's filings with Michigan regulators indicate that it is operationally profitable, and it's hotel has a higher occupancy rate than the city average. In fact, it is often fully booked on weekends and holidays. During the week, it depends on what's happening in town. With the various jails and courts Gilbert is bidding for in such close proximity, it would make sense for Gilbert to build some hotels there: hundreds more people in town each night with money to spend staying near his casino. That isn't a threat to the casino, it's a giant dollar sign.

There is not a fixed number of hotel rooms Detroit needs. The more people come downtown, the more things that are happening [[at theatres, arenas & stadiums, Cobo, stores, bars, restaurants, parks, etc), the more people will want to come. People attract people. Hotels are an important part of the mix. Formerly, people wanted to stay in the burbs when visiting Detroit for business or a wedding or a concert or game. Increasingly, they want to stay downtown. I bet there are some people now whose event is in the suburbs who seek to stay downtown. That's new, growing, and exciting.

[jackie5275]

They [[as in Wayne County) are already using the Mound/Ryan facility.

The title's a bit misleading.

We [[as in Wayne County) are NOT using the Mound/Ryan facility at all. DPD has some limited use out there, but WCSO isn't there.