Gilbert states the Pistons should be called the Auburn Hills Pistons

[Cliffy]

You are absolutely right, all he has done is buy a "sorry ass" casino and is desperate for people to visit it downtown so his pandering to the peasants to put pressure on the Pistons to move downtown for an "urban" experience. - Wait is this even a sentence or a bunch of ignorant rants grouped together to try to formulate a sentence?

Greektown Casino is going broke. You're the peasant doing his bidding on this board.

[warsaw7]

Greektown Casino is going broke. You're the peasant doing his bidding on this board.

That wasn't so hard was it?

But to answer what you said earlier, a lot has changed in four years. Heck a lot has changed in two years. The beach at Campus Martius, QL bringing 8,000 employees from Livonia to Detroit, the slow process of renovating buildings that were once wrote off, bringing in some of the most talented street artists in the world to help create the Z lot, Library Street Collective enjoying great success both here and abroad,just to name a few. While I am not the biggest proponent of Dan Gilbert, I will tip my hat and give credit where credit is due.

[EastsideAl]

MSG in Manhattan, ... least active neighborhoods

You really just make this stuff up as you go along, don't you?

[iheartthed]

You really just make this stuff up as you go along, don't you?

Yeah, MSG only sits directly over the busiest transit center in the United States [[including airports, bus and rail). That was laughable.

[Bham1982]

What does profitability and attendance for the Palace as a whole have to do with attendance specifically for Pistons games in comparison with attendance for NBA teams in other cities?

I already explained it- Gilbert is making claims about the relative desirability of the Palace and the Cleveland arena, but then doesn't compare the relative attendance between the two.

Obviously you can't compare two arenas by comparing dissimlar fractions of attendance. It's like comparing the relative height of two people by measuring one person to his knees and another to his thighs, instead of comparing heights from head to toe.

[Bham1982]

I can't believe you are honestly this ignorant to how many people make attending a sporting event more than the actual event itself.

We already know the most popular arenas in the world, and they are in dead areas for restaurants and nightlife.

So, no, your anecdotal claims that people attend arenas mostly to go to bars or restaurants, or other nearby attractions, sounds ridiculous at face-value.

And logically, knowing that most people have jobs, responsibilities, families and lives, it would be extremely difficult to believe some scenario where most people spend 4 hours at a sporting event as an excuse to spend an additional 4 hours at some neighboring event, on a weeknight, no less. If you really wanted to hang out at Hockeytown Cafe or Greektown Casino, on a random Tuesday night in January, there would be no reason to feel obligated to spend 4 hours and a couple hundred bucks at a sports venue first.

[Bham1982]

I gotta admit, if there was a world record for Shapeshifting, Bham would win that indisputably.

Sorry, I have not changed my point at all in this thread. Everyone else has been grasping at straws. [["attendance doesn't matter", "historical data doesn't matter", "I go to BW3 downtown after games, there are apparently no bad chain restaurants in the burbs, therefore Gilbert is right")

[Bham1982]

Yeah, MSG only sits directly over the busiest transit center in the United States [[including airports, bus and rail). That was laughable.

It was 100% correct. And Penn Station is completely irrelevent.

Again, are you claiming that MSG is an active and desirable area for restaurants and nightlife?

Or are you changing your point again, because you know I'm right, and MSG neighborhood is about the least desirable neighborhood in Manhattan for restaurants and nightlife?

And same is true for O2 arena in London. How can the two busiest arenas on earth be located in basically the two least desirable neighborhoods in NYC and London for restaurants and nightlife, when Gilbert claims that arenas and restaurants/nightlife have a symbiotic relationship?

Is Gilbert full of crap, or is there some vast global conspiracy to hide attendance patterns to boost suburban arenas? I'm betting the former.

[bailey]

We already know the most popular arenas in the world, and they are in dead areas for restaurants and nightlife.

So, no, your anecdotal claims that people attend arenas mostly to go to bars or restaurants, or other nearby attractions, sounds ridiculous at face-value.

The palace is successful by default. There is no real competition for the concerts and that is where the money is. The place is a ghost town for pistions games...IIRC they lead the league in attendance drop over the last decade.

It will be interesting to see if the palace remains in its position if the new venue in little ceasars land cuts into the concert racket.

[stinkytofu]

We already know the most popular arenas in the world, and they are in dead areas for restaurants and nightlife.

So, no, your anecdotal claims that people attend arenas mostly to go to bars or restaurants, or other nearby attractions, sounds ridiculous at face-value.

And logically, knowing that most people have jobs, responsibilities, families and lives, it would be extremely difficult to believe some scenario where most people spend 4 hours at a sporting event as an excuse to spend an additional 4 hours at some neighboring event, on a weeknight, no less. If you really wanted to hang out at Hockeytown Cafe or Greektown Casino, on a random Tuesday night in January, there would be no reason to feel obligated to spend 4 hours and a couple hundred bucks at a sports venue first.

Ok, we will agree to disagree...because I find your position to be absurd. I never claimed everybody that attends games patronizes local establishments before/after games, but a good deal of people do. It definitely impacts my interest in attending particular events. So feel free to think I'm lying or whatever...I'll chuckle as a grab a beer at Park Bar...

[iheartthed]

It was 100% correct. And Penn Station is completely irrelevent.

Again, are you claiming that MSG is an active and desirable area for restaurants and nightlife?

Or are you changing your point again, because you know I'm right, and MSG neighborhood is about the least desirable neighborhood in Manhattan for restaurants and nightlife?

And same is true for O2 arena in London. How can the two busiest arenas on earth be located in basically the two least desirable neighborhoods in NYC and London for restaurants and nightlife, when Gilbert claims that arenas and restaurants/nightlife have a symbiotic relationship?

Is Gilbert full of crap, or is there some vast global conspiracy to hide attendance patterns to boost suburban arenas? I'm betting the former.

MSG is not located in the least desirable area in NYC. What the heck are you talking about? It's located less than a 10 minute walk from Times Square, aka "the crossroads of the world." Try walking 10 minutes from the Palace and let me know where you end up at.

[Bham1982]

MSG is not located in the least desirable area in NYC. What the heck are you talking about? It's located less than a 10 minute walk from Times Square, aka "the crossroads of the world." Try walking 10 minutes from the Palace and let me know where you end up at.

You are changing your point again.

You live in NYC, correct? Can you tell me if the MSG neighborhood is a good one for restaurants and nightlife?

It's one of the least desirable areas anywhere in core NYC for restaurants and nightlife. It's like the complete opposite of SoHo, Meatpacking, East/West Village, Tribeca, Williamsburg, Cobble Hill, Fort Greene, etc.

If arenas really were huge restaurant/nightlife generators, than the MSG neighborhood should be hotter than the Meatpacking District, or more popular than Williamsburg. Instead, it's a dull business neighborhood known for being extremely sparse in terms of restaurants/nightlife.

If you asked some New Yorkers to hang out for the night at 34th & 8th, instead of [[say) East Village, they would look at you like you had two heads. Hang out at the Chase bank branch?

[iheartthed]

You are changing your point again.

You live in NYC, correct? Can you tell me if the MSG neighborhood is a good one for restaurants and nightlife?

I just told you that Times Square is a 10 minute walk from MSG.

[rbdetsport]

You are changing your point again.

You live in NYC, correct? Can you tell me if the MSG neighborhood is a good one for restaurants and nightlife?

It's one of the least desirable areas anywhere in core NYC for restaurants and nightlife. It's like the complete opposite of SoHo, Meatpacking, East/West Village, Tribeca, Williamsburg, Cobble Hill, Fort Greene, etc.

If arenas really were huge restaurant/nightlife generators, than the MSG neighborhood should be hotter than the Meatpacking District, or more popular than Williamsburg. Instead, it's a dull business neighborhood known for being extremely sparse in terms of restaurants/nightlife.

If you asked some New Yorkers to hang out for the night at 34th & 8th, instead of [[say) East Village, they would look at you like you had two heads. Hang out at the Chase bank branch?

I lived in Greenwich Village a few years ago.. While the area surrounding MSG does not compare to those that you mentioned, there are still good mom-and-pop restaurants and bars surrounding the arena, in particular along 8th Avenue. And as mentioned, Times Square is a short walk away.. While this is obviously a tourist destination, I can guarantee that folks from the other Burroughs like to visit Times Square.

[Bham1982]

I lived in Greenwich Village a few years ago.. While the area surrounding MSG does not compare to those that you mentioned, there are still good mom-and-pop restaurants and bars surrounding the arena, in particular along 8th Avenue. And as mentioned, Times Square is a short walk away.. While this is obviously a tourist destination, I can guarantee that folks from the other Burroughs like to visit Times Square.

And none of this has anything to do with the conversation.

Are you implying that Times Square owes its vibrancy to MSG 15 blocks south?

Are you implying that the "mom-and-pop restaurants and bars" common to NYC owe their existence to MSG?

[masterblaster]

We already know the most popular arenas in the world, and they are in dead areas for restaurants and nightlife.

So, no, your anecdotal claims that people attend arenas mostly to go to bars or restaurants, or other nearby attractions, sounds ridiculous at face-value.

And logically, knowing that most people have jobs, responsibilities, families and lives, it would be extremely difficult to believe some scenario where most people spend 4 hours at a sporting event as an excuse to spend an additional 4 hours at some neighboring event, on a weeknight, no less. If you really wanted to hang out at Hockeytown Cafe or Greektown Casino, on a random Tuesday night in January, there would be no reason to feel obligated to spend 4 hours and a couple hundred bucks at a sports venue first.

Not all people who attend sporting events are families with kids. A lot of couples, people who are dating, and males friends go with each other to these events. When the Tigers are playing home games in the evening [[at 7 pm) downtown starts filling with Tigers fans at around 4 pm, and these people arrive early because many go to restaurants and bars to eat before the game starts. In addition, after games, many, but definitely not all fans, hit up nearby bars/restaurants like Rub-BBQ-Pub and Bookies, the Park Bar, Greektown restaurants, and maybe even the casinos before they head home.

[iheartthed]

If the Palace is such a valuable asset sitting in Auburn Hills, why did the Pistons sell for so cheap? Ignoring the huge amount that the Clippers might soon sell for, they sold for significantly less than the Bucks did recently, despite Detroit being a much larger market than Milwaukee. They also sold for less than the Grizzlies, Kings and Hornet/Pelicans, which are also all teams in smaller markets.

[Whitehouse]

I think Detroit Pistons should be renamed Detroit Redskins, just to piss people off.