Gilbert states the Pistons should be called the Auburn Hills Pistons

[stinkytofu]

Furthermore, I guarantee you his real estate holdings are bleeding him every month. A confident guy making tons of cash developing property isn't taking a jab at the Pistons.

You might be right, but without any proof that claim sounds utterly stupid. Additionally, even if downtown were exploding with development, I don't doubt for a second that Gilbert - not exactly the most soft spoken guy in the world - would say the exact same thing.

[believe14]

If it doesn't feel any different to you, come hang with me for one day and you'll see a real difference before lunchtime. The problem is you've NEVER spent enough time down here to know, understand, or appreciate anything tangible about Detroit. Going to sporting events isn't going to help you grasp a thing. And with all due respect, I just moved back here after living in Chicago for 5 years, so if anyone has some perspective on your "argument" it's me. What fringe neighborhoods COMPLETELY transformed in 5 years?

West loop, Ukrainian village, Logan square...

[believe14]

Sidebar: The people I see at places like Green Dot and Sugar House rarely if ever live in Detroit.

[313WX]

Dan Gilbert has it right this time.

Personally, as an east side Detroiter, I will never go to a Pistons game in Auburn Hills. Just the thought of it makes me sick.

[313WX]

And this goes back to the "As Detroit goes, just does the region/state" argument.

Let's face it, billing the team from some podunk sprawlsburg like Auburn Hills just isn't as good as billing them from a big, historically rich, internationally-prominent city like Detroit.

The fucking suburbanites here are perfectly OK with being a part of Detroit and using its big city amenities such as the sports teams and DIA [[claiming "we're all in this together") when outsiders realize the boring, cliche crap they offer alone doesn't cut it, but heaven forbid that same sentiment is expressed when any type of negative press is broadcasted about Detroit, or when it comes to addressing some of the economic and social ills facing those who actually live in the city.

[eliboyer]

I was downtown two Fridays ago, for a lunch meeting, and it doesn't seem any busier than at any point in my lifetime. Nights are somewhat busier, because there are more special events, but downtown is pretty dead on weekday business hours.

If your lunch meeting two Fridays ago was enough sample size for you to draw that conclusion, then how come actual numbers--real factual information--don't resonate whatsoever? "Seem" means nothing when there is something tangible to back-up the opposite. The fact is there are tens-of-thousands more working and living in Greater Downtown now than there were in 2009. Ask small business owners how their sales have changed for the better. Small property owners who have seen the value of their real estate increase steeply. New residents who find real value in living life in the city. Were any of these people at your lunch meeting two Fridays ago? You care enough to respond with such convictions on a message board, so why not put in the time to actually KNOW and understand this city? Only then will you have an opportunity to support your opinions with something real, or you might actually see a change in those opinions.

[Bham1982]

It all makes sense now. You actually are six years old.

This in a nutshell, is Detroit-booster logic. No argument, no facts, no reasoning for any claims, so resorting to grade-school playground insults."Detroit is booming because I said so; anyone disagreeing or referring to facts will be met with 2nd-grade pigtail-pulling".

[Bham1982]

The fact is there are tens-of-thousands more working and living in Greater Downtown now than there were in 2009.

LOL. "Tens of thousands." Show us your source for this "fact".

Considering there aren't even 10,000 people living downtown, I would love to see this math. The downtown population in 2009 was -40,000? Where are these "tens of thousands" of new people living? Not one new residential building has been built

[eliboyer]

West loop, Ukrainian village, Logan square...

These are the COMPLETELY transformed neighborhoods you're referring to? A few hot restaurants and hipsters do not make a completely transformed neighborhood. Show me real change in housing, median income, demographics, education, crime, etc. I might give you a little bit of leeway with the West Loop, but please don't pass off Ukrainian Village and Logan Square as transformed in any real way.

[eliboyer]

This in a nutshell, is Detroit-booster logic. No argument, no facts, no reasoning for any claims, so resorting to grade-school playground insults."Detroit is booming because I said so; anyone disagreeing or referring to facts will be met with 2nd-grade pigtail-pulling".

You are not one to be calling someone out for not using facts. How was your prophetical lunch meeting two Fridays ago referring to facts related to Downtown's growth?

[Bham1982]

You are not one to be calling someone out for not using facts. How was your prophetical lunch meeting two Fridays ago referring to facts related to Downtown's growth?

I was asked for an anecdote and gave one. We already know the facts show Detroit isn't improving.

[stinkytofu]

This in a nutshell, is Detroit-booster logic. No argument, no facts, no reasoning for any claims, so resorting to grade-school playground insults."Detroit is booming because I said so; anyone disagreeing or referring to facts will be met with 2nd-grade pigtail-pulling".

Ok, I was over-the-top. My apologies. Nonetheless, how old are you? If you can't honestly say downtown isn't better than, say, 1995...I'm perplexed.

[stinkytofu]

I was asked for an anecdote and gave one. We already know the facts show Detroit isn't improving.

Are you conveniently changing the argument from downtown to all of Detroit?

[stinkytofu]

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...7-7-percentage

[Cliffy]

You are not one to be calling someone out for not using facts. How was your prophetical lunch meeting two Fridays ago referring to facts related to Downtown's growth?

In all fairness, I made the same comment in a thread about 2 years ago and it holds true. Downtown Detroit is pretty dead during the weekday lunch period 11 am- 2 pm.

Back to the topic, I think Dan is pretty bitter that he missed out on the Pistons. He jumped the gun and overpaid for the Cavs which in turn he loses Lebron, and now he has to associate with Cleveland when he probably has no interest in the city. Also, he happens to live in Oakland County and the only reason he's moving all these business downtown is because of the cheap real estate prices and the tax deals he's cutting. I applaud for him trying but he's not doing all this for the sake of Detroit, he's doing this for the sake of his pocket book.

[eliboyer]

LOL. "Tens of thousands." Show us your source for this "fact".

Considering there aren't even 10,000 people living downtown, I would love to see this math. The downtown population in 2009 was -40,000? Where are these "tens of thousands" of new people living? Not one new residential building has been built

Also typical of you to pick out one sentence instead of responding to the argument on the whole. If it's easier for you to narrow the scope a bit, then so be it.

The Quicken Loans family of companies alone employed 9,192 people in the city as of 9/13 [[Crain's). None of these employees were working downtown in 2009. Add to that BCBS and Strategic Staffing Solutions adding 3,000 and 450 employees respectively since 2010 [[Detroit 7.2) and there's your tens-of-thousands in real facts. And that's ignoring the residential growth and the myriad of smaller employers who have found home in Greater Downtown since 2009.

Now show me facts supporting your opinion. Nobody asked for anecdotes.

[eliboyer]

In all fairness, I made the same comment in a thread about 2 years ago and it holds true. Downtown Detroit is pretty dead during the weekday lunch period 11 am- 2 pm.

Support this with facts and I might listen to you, but your one-off observation means nothing. Ask the people that work at restaurants from Chickpea-in-the-D to Roast if they're "pretty dead" 11-2 on weekdays and they'll laugh at you. Ask the operators of Potbelly and Starbucks if they finally decided the CBD was a good bet because they felt it was "pretty dead" between 11-2 on weekdays. They had real numbers and other information telling them that 11-2 was going to be pretty damn lucrative.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

These comments by Dan Gilbert are not particularly helpful. I think he was speaking in gest in an attempt to poke Gores into moving downtown. But that is not helped by what he said. First, even if the Pistons never returned downtown, they are the team of the Detroit area. Many sports franchises don't play in the title city. Second, Gores is never going to want to appear to be doing what Gilbert tells him to do. Therefore it is counterproductive to moving the Pistons downtown to cast aspersions on the Pistons playing Auburn Hills. I wonder if Gilbert regrets buying the Cavs, instead of waiting and buying the Pistons. He may have figured that Davidson's heirs would keep the team.

[eliboyer]

These comments by Dan Gilbert are not particularly helpful. I think he was speaking in gest in an attempt to poke Gores into moving downtown. But that is not helped by what he said. First, even if the Pistons never returned downtown, they are the team of the Detroit area. Many sports franchises don't play in the title city. Second, Gores is never going to want to appear to be doing what Gilbert tells him to do. Therefore it is counterproductive to moving the Pistons downtown to cast aspersions on the Pistons playing Auburn Hills. I wonder if Gilbert regrets buying the Cavs, instead of waiting and buying the Pistons. He may have figured that Davidson's heirs would keep the team.

Or he was merely looking for a good investment in a sports franchise. He also tried purchasing the Milwaukee Brewers before the Cavs:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...s#.U4FoipRdUoY

And considering the value of the Cavs has increased by an estimated $140 Million since he purchased the club in 2005, I'm sure he's pretty happy.

[believe14]

You might be right, but without any proof that claim sounds utterly stupid. Additionally, even if downtown were exploding with development, I don't doubt for a second that Gilbert - not exactly the most soft spoken guy in the world - would say the exact same thing.

How the hell am I going to get my hands on Gilbert's financials? I can tell you from following the news that none of the retail is worth a damn. Over promised and under delivered. Subsidized stores with limited hours and a few cliche bars. It would appear to me it's all cosmetics meant to trick prospective employees, investors and interns. Still offering rental subsidies to college grads, yes? The town feels empty outside of the workday. There's no foot traffic in Detroit, even if it's 75 degrees on a Saturday afternoon. You guys are so numb to the dysfunction that any blip of change is "progress." On a warm weekend day I encourage you to visit Birmingham or Rochester, downtown Grand Rapids or a Chicago neighborhood like Lincoln Park and tell me how miserable and depressing Detroit feels in comparison. You guys are terminal optimists who refuse to acknowledge that the progress in this city moves at a snail's pace, if at all.

[313WX]

Or he was merely looking for a good investment in a sports franchise. He also tried purchasing the Milwaukee Brewers before the Cavs:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...s#.U4FoipRdUoY

And considering the value of the Cavs has increased by an estimated $140 Million since he purchased the club in 2005, I'm sure he's pretty happy.

With LeBron James now gone, it'll be interesting to see the change in value of the Cavaliers over the next few years.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

With LeBron James now gone, it'll be interesting to see the change in value of the Cavaliers over the next few years.

They've won as many championships without him as they did with him.

[313WX]

They've won as many championships without him as they did with him.

True, but even without championships, he was single-handedly carrying the success that franchise had.

[Hermod]

When did this board become 90% uptight, pissy little suburbanites?

He's absolutely right, and he's obviously not an idiot. Auburn Hills isn't even anywhere near Detroit.

Of course when Bham and believe go on vacation they're from Detroit, or when they're rooting for sports teams they're from Detroit, you know, only when it's convenient. It's a joke. Detroit is Detroit. If you're in or from Auburn Hills and calling yourself Detroit you're what's call "a fucking poseur." The Bruins don't play in Newton because they're not the Newton Bruins. What part of "Detroit" don't you understand?

NFL Teams often have stadiums outside of their "name" cities:
Patriots, Giants, Redskins, Dolphins, Cowboys just off the top of my head.

[Danny]

...says loudmouth mortgage sleazeball who believes in Detroit SO much he lives in Franklin.

That is why we called it Freedom of Speech.