"Overly Aggressive Policing" now widespread in Detroit...?

[Cliffy]

This is what is says about the parks in Royal Oak:
No person shall bring alcoholic beverages into a park, nor shall any person drink alcoholic beverages in a park.

[DetroitHabitater]

Note to self: Move to a park to get the police response.

[old guy]

I'm surprised that you can't drink in Detroit parks. I understand not being drunk or obnoxious. but having a few beers in a public place? If you were over the limit or doing something stupid I could understand it. But just enjoying a nice day with a few friends or family. Seems odd that it's a crime.
Where I live, people are allowed to do it and it's acceptable and there don't seem to be any problems. If you go beyond the limit there are repercussions. People understand that and generally there are few problems.
Having a few drinks in a public place seem to me... to be reasonably acceptable. I've never been in a state park, county park or city park where you couldn't drink alcohol if you were being responsible. This sounds very strange and overly restrictive.

[sumas]

Sometimes I do get conflicted, personally we always get great police response on the few occasions we needed them. EMS has been outstanding.

But also have huge issues with how sometimes laws [[and non Laws) get enforced. Riff-raf excluding thieves, car jackers and rapists are actually amusing. I have never ever had an issue on the island. I avoided the high school crazies at grad time but on occasion have driven through that nuttiness and never once felt intimidated.

[Zacha341]

Seems to me now they are enforcing what is on the book for a state park. I know I have had an 'adult beverage' on Belle Isle -- not going nuts to get drunk -- and took my empties with me in the trunk in a plastic bag. I guess no more swigging a 'forties' leaning against your car, music banging! That was the crowd I avoided.

Having a few drinks in a public place seem to me... to be reasonably acceptable. I've never been in a state park, county park or city park where you couldn't drink alcohol if you were being responsible. This sounds very strange and overly restrictive.

[cla1945]

This entire discussion seems to have been generated because Belle Isle is going to become a place where families can go and enjoy a day outdoors without being unable to cross the street because people are not obeying speed limits; or they are being accosted by, intimidated by, scared of, disturbed by loud, obnoxious music, dancing in the streets, blocking traffic, drunks and thugs and gang members who felt like the island belonged exclusively to them and anyone was not welcome. If people have warrents and get caught speeding and go to jail, whose fault is that? No license, no insurance, you get a ticket, whose fault is that? Too bad.

As a child, I went to Belle Isle with my family and it was a beautiful, tranquil, place to go and enjoy nature, have a picnic, or just sit and watch the freighters go by. From the late 60's to the beginning of this year, Belle Isle was a place where I didn't want to go anymore, especiallty taking my young children, simply because of what it turned into. Before I finally decided not to go there anymore, there were times we drove around, at the speed limit [[because we did obey laws), and we were stopped by groups of young people standing in the middle of the street just daring us to go on. Loud bass filled music was heard throughout the island, on the perimeter, in the woods, on the beach. It wasn't a peaceful place anymore and it was taken over by those who felt that we didn't belong there any longer. We lived in Detroit, Belle Isle was a special place to me much longer than half these hoodlums had been alive. There were laws on the island but it didn't seem to matter.

Now, ever since certain people on Detroit's council complained about being stopped because they were speeding, or they complained that they felt "intimidated or disrespected" by the State Police, people are incuininating that State Police are being "overly agressive". That's complete and total bull! The State Police Officer who used the term "riff-raff" wasn't referring to any particular ethnic group, although the person stopped was sure to interject that to the news media.

Now, the island is finally becoming the place it once was, and if those that choose to break the law, and those that choose to go over there and fight, get so drunk that that they are falling down, play loud, offensive, rude music, block streets, and all the other stuff that was happening before the State took over, don't like it...stay away. It is what it is, Belle Isle is for everyone, not just the select few that think it belongs ONLY to them. Get used to it. If you break the law by going 5 or 10 miles over the speed limit, expect to get stopped...what is this with people who think they are above the law??? Belle Isle does not have diplomatic immunity and is not a lawless area in Detroit.

[DetroitPlanner]

I can remember when Hines Parkway was crazy. About 25 years ago the County cops got sick of the drunk drivings and overdoses and started to enforce the laws. It is a much different place today. I like it better, though I do miss seeing the drunk topless women walking by the road.

[Wesley Mouch]

Can we all admit this has little to do with anything but a dislike of anything done by the State? If the State gave out $20 bills that the bridge, complaints would be issued.

[nain rouge]

Cla, I think it becomes an issue of how sheltered do you think families need to be? If you're scared of a little loud music and people drinking, maybe you need to loosen up. That said, flagrant behavior [[like blocking the road) should be dealt with. It's about finding a happy medium.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

In NYC, the police for ages let crime go in the parks. Then, starting under Giuliani, they started cracking down on the pot dealers, drunks, aggressive pan-handlers, etc. Now so many of them are nicer places where regular people [[of all colors!) can enjoy themselves again. All parks should be reclaimed for their patrons, and not for the nefarious, dirty, and dangerous few.

[nain rouge]

I've been to the big parks in NYC and people openly do things there that would have Metro Detroit suburbanites in a major tizzy if it happened in their neighborhoods. New Yorkers, by necessity, accept diversity in a way that makes "safe and clean" mean something way different than it does in Detroit.

[compn]

I've never been in a state park, county park or city park where you couldn't drink alcohol if you were being responsible. This sounds very strange and overly restrictive.

isnt public consumption of alcohol illegal statewide? nationwide? i guess not las vegas or new orleans.
yes it is illegal. what country do you live in lol?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...container_laws

[old guy]

isnt public consumption of alcohol illegal statewide? nationwide? i guess not las vegas or new orleans.
yes it is illegal. what country do you live in lol?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...container_laws

Last time I checked, I lived in America.

Wisconsin State Park System Alcohol in state parks and forests

With a few exceptions, people of legal drinking age may bring alcoholic beverages along for their picnic or campsite meals in Wisconsin state parks and forests.

Park visitors must be considerate of others and the environment, not noisy, disruptive or destructive in any way.

County parks and campgrounds have the same rules. These are all nice, clean parks and I've never experienced any problems at any of them.
I canoe rivers and I've never had a problem with camping on a sand bar, having a few beers around a campfire and taking my trash with me. I fish the rivers and lakes and game wardens never cite you for having an open container unless it's glass. You can't be drunk and operate a boat, but that makes sense.

Belle Isle Park

Is alcohol allowed in the park?

The DNR has adopted the current rules for the island which prohibit alcohol consumption except by permit. This and other rules are being reviewed and assessed. The rule could change in the future.

[old guy]

Belle Isle information source
DNR - Frequently Asked Questions

[Wesley Mouch]

Last time I checked, I lived in America.

The America where you were judged on your behavior is fading. We now judge on actions [[drinking = bad) or thought [[we know you are a racist, let's lock you up).

The DNR has adopted the current rules for the island which prohibit alcohol consumption except by permit. This and other rules are being reviewed and assessed. The rule could change in the future.

So DNR adopted this rule from the City?

What is the rule in other state parks?

[cla1945]

Cla, I think it becomes an issue of how sheltered do you think families need to be? If you're scared of a little loud music and people drinking, maybe you need to loosen up. That said, flagrant behavior [[like blocking the road) should be dealt with. It's about finding a happy medium.

Nain, not scared of a little loud music or people drinking [[I'm all for bringing beer to Belle Isle),
i think you are minimizing what I meant. I also think that everyone on this forum who is honest with themselves should admit that Belle Isle has not been a safe place to go on a hot summer day for some families or for some individuals. For years, young people, thugs, gangs, and yes, riff raff, have made it impossible for some to enjoy the park like they used to in the past.

Another thing, maybe I'm an old curmudgeon to some, but why should I be subjected to offensive music blasting next to me? Why should I be subjected to vulgar language, intimidating stares, having to stop in the middle of the road because a group of people have spilled into the street and seem to think that I shouldn't be there?

If someone is breaking the law on Belle Isle or anywhere, the State Police, DPD, Border Patrol, DNR, or whomever, should stop them, ticket them; if they have warrants, arrest them; no drivers license or proof of insurance, take the car.....if enough of these lawbreakers get caught, word will spread and either they'll straighten their act up or stay off the island and let those who want to enjoy the beauty and serenity it has to offer be there. This is my opinion.

[rb336]

The America where you were judged on your behavior is fading. We now judge on actions [[drinking = bad) or thought [[we know you are a racist, let's lock you up).

actions aren't behavior?

[sumas]

My mother taught me every thing in moderation. I personally blame the city for things out of control.

Took the idiots 6 month to figure that the Scott Fountain got gutted.

Now the city looks at it like some kind of cash cow, Rent it out and zero public access when they do that. Something is wrong with that mentality

[Cliffy]

I've been to the big parks in NYC and people openly do things there that would have Metro Detroit suburbanites in a major tizzy if it happened in their neighborhoods. New Yorkers, by necessity, accept diversity in a way that makes "safe and clean" mean something way different than it does in Detroit.

Give an example of what you saw

[nain rouge]

I also think that everyone on this forum who is honest with themselves should admit that Belle Isle has not been a safe place to go on a hot summer day for some families or for some individuals.

Oh, I agree. That's why it's always bothered me how the police were so great at stopping people from swimming at Hippy Beach, for example, but threatening behaviors were ignored. And so when I hear that the police are going to "crack down", we know it means they're just going to try and take money from easy targets. Only in Detroit do police turn a blind eye to obvious scrapping [[trust me, I've heard stories from property owners) while watching illegal swimming like hawks.

[nain rouge]

Give an example of what you saw

People smoke weed and drink in public in NYC in ways that would have 50 Royal Oak cops tackling you to the ground at once. But, of course, if the RO cops had to deal with known drug dealers, suddenly they'd be hanging out at 7-11 and flirting with the cashier.

[Cliffy]

People smoke weed and drink in public in NYC in ways that would have 50 Royal Oak cops tackling you to the ground at once. But, of course, if the RO cops had to deal with known drug dealers, suddenly they'd be hanging out at 7-11 and flirting with the cashier.

Just because you witnessed it, it doesn't mean that its legal and you can't get a ticket in NYC.

[Meddle]

'Aggressive' policing has a place, but there should be discretion. Things don't need to be applied with hard and fast rules. If a couple is sitting quietly having a picnic type meal and happen to have a glass or two of wine, I see no problem.

It's the table of rowdies openly drinking beer by the case, radio blaring, hooting and hollering while playing football that should be addressed.

Do it quietly, don't bother others and you should be left alone.

[Meddle]

I can remember when Hines Parkway was crazy. About 25 years ago the County cops got sick of the drunk drivings and overdoses and started to enforce the laws. It is a much different place today. I like it better, though I do miss seeing the drunk topless women walking by the road.

I remember a time back in the late 70s or so. During the middle of a weekday, I was sitting in one of the parking lots in Plymouth Twp along Hines near one of the ball fields. I was in the car, looking at a map, making some notes and sipping some coffee. County biker turd pulls up and tells me to get out because there are clear signs saying "No Parking", and he was in FULL turd mode.

Thing is, while there were "No Parking" signs, I was not parked by definition. I was in the car, doors closed, key in ignition, radio on quietly. I was sitting in the lane too, not in a parking spot. There were no chains across the driveways, no signs saying Closed, No Entry, Keep Out or No Standing. I was the only car, I was not in a gathering of others.

THAT kind of overly aggressive policing is uncalled for.

[old guy]

The America where you were judged on your behavior is fading. We now judge on actions [[drinking = bad) or thought [[we know you are a racist, let's lock you up).

So DNR adopted this rule from the City?

What is the rule in other state parks?

DNR - Alcohol Limits in State Parks and at Boating Access Sites

I don't know if the DNR adopted the rule from the city. It was a DNR quote from the other link I provided.DNR - Frequently Asked Questions