Where will people [[not taking M-1) park at the Arena and Comerica?

[Islandman]

Same thing happens on the I-75 Mack Ave. exit when folks are going to Eastern Market.

Lemmings, the lot of them. Pun intended.

[313rd]

Here is a good read for those who haven't got around to it yet...showing some "boundaries" for development.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/assets/PDF/CD89867725.PDF

[ABetterDetroit]

The Wings certainly drew pretty well at Joe Louis with very little nearby parking. Folks really didn't seem to mind all that much walking from the other side of the freeway/Cobo or taking the People Mover over there, and it meant more business for places in the southwest part of downtown [[Anchor Bar anyone?).

Also, I don't know if you realize this, but for all games downtown involving each of the 3 teams there are shuttle buses from several local watering holes that bring a lot of the fans in. I have often taken one of these when going to Lions games [[or just parked in Lafayette Park for free).

I think it would be much better for bars, restaurants, etc. downtown and in midtown if the parking wasn't all piled up right next to the arena & stadiums and people had to walk a block or two. I would like to see many fewer surface lots though, and perhaps that will come to pass as the land gains in value. That huge dusty gravel field north of the Fisher [[75) around where they will be building the arena is particularly horrible.

As for the cold, c'mon... it's Michigan - it's going to be cold in the winter. I think we all own enough of a winter coat and some gloves for a few block walk.

Hey Al what are you doing??? Telling everyone our secret on how to park cheap, get a good meal then have a choice of walking or riding depending on weather, time you have, etc? You said that only you, me, and that other guy were going to keep this a secret from everyone else!

[emu steve]

I'd like to see a parking garage\first floor retail on Woodward in front of Comerica. It could serve Fox, Comerica, Red Wings, Grand Circus, etc...

It would help restore streetwall and could have restaurants and such on Woodward.

As much as folks dislike surface parking it is better than the WRONG building in front of Comerica.

I don't know what the RIGHT type of building is. I wouldn't want Comerica surrounded tightly by tall buildings.

I have no problem with the surface parking at Montcalm/Fisher [[maybe should be named "Eatem up Tigers Way" Where Eatem up Tigers used to hang out).

[emu steve]

...I think it would be much better for bars, restaurants, etc. downtown and in midtown if the parking wasn't all piled up right next to the arena & stadiums and people had to walk a block or two. I would like to see many fewer surface lots though, and perhaps that will come to pass as the land gains in value. That huge dusty gravel field north of the Fisher [[75) around where they will be building the arena is particularly horrible...

What I find fascinating is that once the arena is nearly complete the market dynamics of the area will completely change.

Folks who have, or can acquire land in the area, and I realize the Ilitches control most as they tried to acquire enough land for the arena at multiple sites [[e.g., behind Fox, and Woodward/Fisher), can decide what type of eateries, or whatever, they want.

Obviously Hockeytown will be the big winner with 50 hockey games plus scores of other events.

Comerica is good for say 90 - 100 events per year. The new arena could add say 150. Add Ford Field events and the total number of events could approach 275 - 300 equal to 5 or 6 / week.

[animatedmartian]

As much as folks dislike surface parking it is better than the WRONG building in front of Comerica.

I don't know what the RIGHT type of building is. I wouldn't want Comerica surrounded tightly by tall buildings.

I have no problem with the surface parking at Montcalm/Fisher [[maybe should be named "Eatem up Tigers Way" Where Eatem up Tigers used to hang out).

I doubt any potential buildings would be tall enough to peer into the field.

The other day, I sort of imagined that they'd build Hockeytown-style sports bars and restaurants in at least in the two lots between Witherell and Wooward. If there's residential above them, I wouldn't expect anymore than 5 or 6 floors. That's enough height to give the street level a sense of density but not tall enough to get a view over the stands.

[emu steve]

I doubt any potential buildings would be tall enough to peer into the field.

The other day, I sort of imagined that they'd build Hockeytown-style sports bars and restaurants in at least in the two lots between Witherell and Wooward. If there's residential above them, I wouldn't expect anymore than 5 or 6 floors. That's enough height to give the street level a sense of density but not tall enough to get a view over the stands.

I'm [[actually, it should be the Ilitches, not me. ) probably aren't concerned with a Wrigley Field type situation but they probably are very concerned about the aesthetics.

Because Comerica does not front on Woodward, whatever goes up there should be in harmony with the stadium.

This is a good reason for the owner of a stadium, arena, etc. to control all of the adjacent blocks to the facility. Most MLB stadiums are not in tight quarters.

Who wants to get claustrophic or have bad shadows or even wind tunnels as winds swirl around some huge building. I'll bet if the David Whitney bldg. was out in center field it would be a problem as the winds move around a 20 story building.

Maybe someone knows the answer to this question:

How much engineering is there done for things like shadows, wind tunnels, etc.? [[most stadiums I've seen are not boxed in with big buildings around them).

I believe MLB has rules about which way a park must face, i.e., the placement of home plate [[so that the batter is not looking into the sun with a 95 mph fast ball coming near his head).

I suspect the engineering of this is much more complicated then laymen would guess.

[Bham1982]

I don't know what the RIGHT type of building is. I wouldn't want Comerica surrounded tightly by tall buildings.

If this is your position, then why do you support Comerica Park in a city center? That's kind of the point of a city center [[tight density).

This is why sports venues are usually incompatible with good urbanism, and why most places in the world with good urbanism put their sports venues as far away as possible from their walkable and vibrant neighborhoods.

[emu steve]

If this is your position, then why do you support Comerica Park in a city center? That's kind of the point of a city center [[tight density).

This is why sports venues are usually incompatible with good urbanism, and why most places in the world with good urbanism put their sports venues as far away as possible from their walkable and vibrant neighborhoods.

Tight density doesn't have to mean 'shoe horned' like the Verizon Center is in D.C.

I have no problem with Comerica Park with some surface parking nearby. Detroit's downtown isn't packed tight like say D.C. or NYC. Matter of fact, Comerica is far enough from the CBD that the density isn't what it is in the heart of the CBD.

And as we've mentioned many times, Comerica Park is conventiently served by freeways and major streets [[e.g., Woodward, Gratiot, etc.).

I've always found access to Comerica 'quick and easy'.

That said, some, as discussed in this thread, could be developed CAREFULLY. Development around Comerica is tougher than the arena I'd guess [[as the arena, as is Ford Field, are enclosed buildings).

[Gistok]

As much as folks dislike surface parking it is better than the WRONG building in front of Comerica.

I don't know what the RIGHT type of building is. I wouldn't want Comerica surrounded tightly by tall buildings.

I have no problem with the surface parking at Montcalm/Fisher [[maybe should be named "Eatem up Tigers Way" Where Eatem up Tigers used to hang out).

Emusteve... I cannot believe you actually said this? Does this mean that you would prefer suburban style distance and low density around the arena and stadia? Isn't urban supposed to mean URBAN?? The YWCA and Wolverine Hotel... two perfectly good buildings that could have provided hundreds of lofts or apartments, were torn down just so that there was room for paved parking....

[emu steve]

Emusteve... I cannot believe you actually said this? Does this mean that you would prefer suburban style distance and low density around the arena and stadia? Isn't urban supposed to mean URBAN?? The YWCA and Wolverine Hotel... two perfectly good buildings that could have provided hundreds of lofts or apartments, were torn down just so that there was room for paved parking....

I'm talking going forward. I don't want any building to dwarf an open baseball stadium, esp in the outfield. I love the views looking out to the outfield of Comerica.

Folks in Balto. were upset with the Sheraton Hilton Hotel clearly visible in left center field.

It would have preferable for a low rinse building.

[CrashDummy]

I believe MLB has rules about which way a park must face, i.e., the placement of home plate [[so that the batter is not looking into the sun with a 95 mph fast ball coming near his head).

Generally, baseball diamonds are built so the battery at home plate is facing northeast, mainly so the batter is not facing the sun in the afternoon. Comerica Park was intentionally built facing south so the open end would face the downtown skyline.

[emu steve]

Generally, baseball diamonds are built so the battery at home plate is facing northeast, mainly so the batter is not facing the sun in the afternoon. Comerica Park was intentionally built facing south so the open end would face the downtown skyline.

Are you saying Detroit actually did something wisely in the area of development?

Indeed, the other stadiums I've familiar with, Orioles Park and Nationals Park, both face northeast.

Who would want Comerica facing northeast? Wouldn't that have been high rise housing projects?

So the criteria BASEBALL/developer, not preservationists, set:

1). Field placement must be placed so that the batter's eye aren't facing in the sun [[afternoon). That is non negotiable with MLB,

2). The placement of the open outfield [[outfields are the 'open space' in MLB stadium with panoramic views) is that it gives the best possible vistas of the downtown Detroit skyline.

Based on those TWO criteria Comerica was well placed. Comerica isn't my favorite MLB stadium but vistas and access via freeways and major streets [[e.g., Woodward, Gratiot, Michigan Ave., and even other streets, e.g., Cass, Brush, etc.) is excellent. Driving/parking to Comerica is very easy. Orioles and Nationals Park - UGH!!!

P.S. I wasn't following the Tigers in the 1990s so I'm not up on what buildings were lost, etc. because of the stadium. I can only speak to my feelings about the 'end product'.

[Spartan]

Comerica Park absolutely is one of the best situated stadiums in MLB. Great sightlines, sun is "placed" well, and the skyline is highlighted brilliantly in the outfield. Visitors can take a peek inside in the outfield as well, which is a bonus. Would be nice to see the area around it utilized better, but the stadium block itself is great.

[chicagoforlife]

I'm pretty sure in Detroit you can find at least 15,000 parking spots within a 10-15 minute walk of where the new arena is going to be.

[chicagoforlife]

Comiskey Park faces southeast, the old ballpark use to face northeast....Tiger Stadium faced northeast too.

[emu steve]

I wonder if [[honest) Ilitich gets a bad rap on this parking bit.

I saw this article and I look at the public and private parking lots mostly north of Adams and I'd assume everyone here knows that Ilitch [[and the city, if applicable) had to assemble parcels for an arena at two locations, i.e., behind the Fox and the Woodward, North of the Fisher location.

Guess where the 'hoarding' of parking lots are, yep, those two locations.

So all of that surface parking North of the Fisher will be gone. Once the new arena is nearing completion that will 'unlock' the land behind the Fox; that land can be sold and developed or whatever.

I suspect in five years that parking map will look at lot, lot different.

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...to-scratch.php