Where will people [[not taking M-1) park at the Arena and Comerica?

[emu steve]

Okay, M-1 is supposed to break ground this summer. Arena presumably the same time frame.

All of the surface parking along Woodward/Fisher toward Temple will be gone.

Ilitch promises to build a 500 vehicle garage [[mostly for the team and VIP's???). [[I'd guess say Park and the Fisher).

What about more garages to serve both Comerica and the new arena?

How about next to the Town Pump? Or maybe close to Comerica [[E. Montcalm and John R)? Both are surface lots but is that enough? Need more capacity?

Do we need 1,000 more good parking spaces?

[Bham1982]

What are you talking about? What does trolley construction have to do with Comerica parking?

[emu steve]

What are you talking about? What does trolley construction have to do with Comerica parking?

Nothing.

But then again I sometimes say, "it is a great day to be alive."

What does 'great day' have to do with "be alive"? Would I not want to be alive if it wasn't a great day? Say if the wind child was minus 15 degrees? Or 20" of snow forecast?

I strung together two thoughts: M-1 rail construction and arena construction with the topic of parking. It was more literary than anything else. Just a way to introduce the subject at hand.

[ghettopalmetto]

Isn't the Ilitch Parkingplex something like 40 blocks? And the arena will take what, two of those blocks?

That's the problem with Detroit. There's just never anywhere to park.

[emu steve]

Isn't the Ilitch Parkingplex something like 40 blocks? And the arena will take what, two of those blocks?

That's the problem with Detroit. There's just never anywhere to park.

Detroit isn't Washington, D.C. where most folks going to a Nationals or Wizards game take the subway.

Whenever there will be 20K [[Wings), 40K [[Tigers) or 65K [[Lions) there needs to be reasonably close parking.

As far as I'm concerned the new arena will eat up 1 - 2K reasonably close in parking spaces to Comerica.

I'm not sure folks want to walk more than say six blocks for an event especially at night.

What I'm talking about is taking surface parking and replace some of it with parking garages, not the best looking buildings in the world, but necessary to get folks close to their venues, esp at night, inclement weather, etc.

[ghettopalmetto]

Detroit isn't Washington, D.C. where most folks going to a Nationals or Wizards game take the subway.

Whenever there will be 20K [[Wings), 40K [[Tigers) or 65K [[Lions) there needs to be reasonably close parking.

As far as I'm concerned the new arena will eat up 1 - 2K reasonably close in parking spaces to Comerica.

I'm not sure folks want to walk more than say six blocks for an event especially at night.

What I'm talking about is taking surface parking and replace some of it with parking garages, not the best looking buildings in the world, but necessary to get folks close to their venues, esp at night, inclement weather, etc.

There will be a 100,000 space garage right at the front door of the arena. Problem solved.

[DetroitPlanner]

There will be a 100,000 space garage right at the front door of the arena. Problem solved.

Can you post the environmental assessment or traffic study for this behemoth?

[ghettopalmetto]

Can you post the environmental assessment or traffic study for this behemoth?

Pshaw. Why start now?

[Gsgeorge]

Are you serious? There is so much surface/garage/street parking in Detroit it's not even funny. You could build three new arenas and still have parking leftover. I'm pretty sure the plan is to add several parking garages to the 'district' anyway.

This is indicative of a larger problem in Detroit, where parking is equated with quality of life. We could build Fort Knox downtown, make admission free, and give away gold to anyone who walks through the door. But you would still have people complaining about lack of parking... Too many folks unwilling to take public transit, or take more than a 100ft walk to their destination...

[ghettopalmetto]

I'm pretty sure the plan is to add several parking garages to the 'district' anyway.

This is indicative of a larger problem in Detroit, where parking is equated with quality of life. We could build Fort Knox downtown, make admission free, and give away gold to anyone who walks through the door.

These are all good ideas. But I still think there should be a 100,000 space garage at the front door. Have you ever been to Ann Arbor on a football Saturday? It's disgusting--114,000 people at the same place, and most of them walk BLOCKS [[plural!) to get to-and-from the Stadium. It's an abomination, really.

So let's just nip that problem in the bud, build a garage that's more-than-double the actual size needed. We can have freeway off-ramps that lead directly into it, so people don't actually have to drive on Detroit's city streets. And habitrail tunnels so people can walk right into the Ilitchplex, and not have to worry about the two pesky panhandlers outside.

Hell, I'm sure the DEGC will even pay to construct it, and then hand it over to Ilitch the Parking Lord [[free-and-clear), who will charge $40 a pop and let the damned thing fall apart.

Once that's done, Detroit might finally have enough parking where people will feel safe coming downtown.

[401don]

I've always found parking at Detroit events a confusing nightmare sort of like ordering pizza toppings nowadays - far too many choices.

[emu steve]

I've always found parking at Detroit events a confusing nightmare sort of like ordering pizza toppings nowadays - far too many choices.

Let me ask my question this way:

Are there problems with parking for a crowd of 65K at Ford Field? How far do folks need to walk?

[CrashDummy]

Those dirt lots north of the freeway really aren't that close. Only idiots park there. There is more than enough and much better parking south of the stadium. I've been parking at the Z lot for games lately. Ten bucks and only a five minute walk.

[313rd]

New Arena District will have a Parking Garage at Montcalm/Clifford with a Pedestrian Bridge built over I-75 at Park. Garage will serve both Comerica/Fox/Hockey Arena events. Well played Olympia Development.

[emu steve]

New Arena District will have a Parking Garage at Montcalm/Clifford with a Pedestrian Bridge built over I-75 at Park. Garage will serve both Comerica/Fox/Hockey Arena events. Well played Olympia Development.

I'm not sure if I'm thick or thin skinned, but I think my skin is thick enough to survive on these boards. Some times folks get arrows shot at themselves yet prove prophetic.

It seems that one of my earlier posts was [[and I'm quoting myself):

"Ilitch promises to build a 500 vehicle garage [[mostly for the team and VIP's???). [[I'd guess say Park and the Fisher).

What about more garages to serve both Comerica and the new arena?

How about next to the Town Pump? Or maybe close to Comerica [[E. Montcalm and John R)? Both are surface lots but is that enough? Need more capacity?


I know folks hate parking garages, but putting one behind the Town Pump is an absolute no brainer. During summer it is a pleasant walk from Comerica. And very close to the new arena.

Who wants to walk 10 - 15 minutes in the dark of night with wind chills below zero after a Wings hockey game?

[ghettopalmetto]

I'm not sure if I'm thick or thin skinned, but I think my skin is thick enough to survive on these boards. Some times folks get arrows shot at themselves yet prove prophetic.

It seems that one of my earlier posts was [[and I'm quoting myself):

"Ilitch promises to build a 500 vehicle garage [[mostly for the team and VIP's???). [[I'd guess say Park and the Fisher).

What about more garages to serve both Comerica and the new arena?

How about next to the Town Pump? Or maybe close to Comerica [[E. Montcalm and John R)? Both are surface lots but is that enough? Need more capacity?


I know folks hate parking garages, but putting one behind the Town Pump is an absolute no brainer. During summer it is a pleasant walk from Comerica. And very close to the new arena.

Who wants to walk 10 - 15 minutes in the dark of night with wind chills below zero after a Wings hockey game?

That's why Detroit needs more habitrail tubes all over the place. There's no good reason to ever go outside when you can walk directly from the parking garage to your destination. Why risk encountering a panhandler on a chilly night?

Must design everything for the most extreme conditions imaginable. We wouldn't want anybody's tootsies to get cold.

[emu steve]

That's why Detroit needs more habitrail tubes all over the place. There's no good reason to ever go outside when you can walk directly from the parking garage to your destination. Why risk encountering a panhandler on a chilly night?

Must design everything for the most extreme conditions imaginable. We wouldn't want anybody's tootsies to get cold.

Last time I checked hockey is a winter sport, played, mostly at night.

I used [[past tense) to park at Woodward and Sproat when I'm in town for Tigers' games. [I'm already mentally prepared to lose my parking spot. Lol.]

The difference between a typical Tigers game and Wings game is about 60 - 70 degrees wind chill.

[313rd]

Olympia Development Owned Parking Lots for Reference

[DetroitPlanner]

That's why Detroit needs more habitrail tubes all over the place. There's no good reason to ever go outside when you can walk directly from the parking garage to your destination. Why risk encountering a panhandler on a chilly night?

Must design everything for the most extreme conditions imaginable. We wouldn't want anybody's tootsies to get cold.

You must not be a fan of William H Whyte or Jim Kunstler
http://articles.courant.com/2004-04-...ks-main-street

[Scottathew]

I'd like to see a parking garage\first floor retail on Woodward in front of Comerica. It could serve Fox, Comerica, Red Wings, Grand Circus, etc...

It would help restore streetwall and could have restaurants and such on Woodward.

[emu steve]

I'd like to see a parking garage\first floor retail on Woodward in front of Comerica. It could serve Fox, Comerica, Red Wings, Grand Circus, etc...

It would help restore streetwall and could have restaurants and such on Woodward.

As much as folks dislike surface parking it is better than the WRONG building in front of Comerica.

I don't know what the RIGHT type of building is. I wouldn't want Comerica surrounded tightly by tall buildings.

I have no problem with the surface parking at Montcalm/Fisher [[maybe should be named "Eatem up Tigers Way" Where Eatem up Tigers used to hang out).

[animatedmartian]

As much as folks dislike surface parking it is better than the WRONG building in front of Comerica.

I don't know what the RIGHT type of building is. I wouldn't want Comerica surrounded tightly by tall buildings.

I have no problem with the surface parking at Montcalm/Fisher [[maybe should be named "Eatem up Tigers Way" Where Eatem up Tigers used to hang out).

I doubt any potential buildings would be tall enough to peer into the field.

The other day, I sort of imagined that they'd build Hockeytown-style sports bars and restaurants in at least in the two lots between Witherell and Wooward. If there's residential above them, I wouldn't expect anymore than 5 or 6 floors. That's enough height to give the street level a sense of density but not tall enough to get a view over the stands.

[emu steve]

I doubt any potential buildings would be tall enough to peer into the field.

The other day, I sort of imagined that they'd build Hockeytown-style sports bars and restaurants in at least in the two lots between Witherell and Wooward. If there's residential above them, I wouldn't expect anymore than 5 or 6 floors. That's enough height to give the street level a sense of density but not tall enough to get a view over the stands.

I'm [[actually, it should be the Ilitches, not me. ) probably aren't concerned with a Wrigley Field type situation but they probably are very concerned about the aesthetics.

Because Comerica does not front on Woodward, whatever goes up there should be in harmony with the stadium.

This is a good reason for the owner of a stadium, arena, etc. to control all of the adjacent blocks to the facility. Most MLB stadiums are not in tight quarters.

Who wants to get claustrophic or have bad shadows or even wind tunnels as winds swirl around some huge building. I'll bet if the David Whitney bldg. was out in center field it would be a problem as the winds move around a 20 story building.

Maybe someone knows the answer to this question:

How much engineering is there done for things like shadows, wind tunnels, etc.? [[most stadiums I've seen are not boxed in with big buildings around them).

I believe MLB has rules about which way a park must face, i.e., the placement of home plate [[so that the batter is not looking into the sun with a 95 mph fast ball coming near his head).

I suspect the engineering of this is much more complicated then laymen would guess.

[CrashDummy]

I believe MLB has rules about which way a park must face, i.e., the placement of home plate [[so that the batter is not looking into the sun with a 95 mph fast ball coming near his head).

Generally, baseball diamonds are built so the battery at home plate is facing northeast, mainly so the batter is not facing the sun in the afternoon. Comerica Park was intentionally built facing south so the open end would face the downtown skyline.

[Bham1982]

I don't know what the RIGHT type of building is. I wouldn't want Comerica surrounded tightly by tall buildings.

If this is your position, then why do you support Comerica Park in a city center? That's kind of the point of a city center [[tight density).

This is why sports venues are usually incompatible with good urbanism, and why most places in the world with good urbanism put their sports venues as far away as possible from their walkable and vibrant neighborhoods.