State laws re: bankruptcy contribution

[BankruptcyGuy]

Here is [[finally) a decent article summarizing the state law package related to the "grand bargain" contribution.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140513/NEWS06/305130021/

I would guess that there would be several modifications of each of these along the way. If the votes aren't there now, new amendments will have to be added to get the votes. Your guess is as good as mine as to what those will be.

[compn]

whats the chance the legislature lets detroit go bankrupt ?

[corktownyuppie]

whats the chance the legislature lets detroit go bankrupt ?

What do you mean by this? Detroit is already in the middle of bankruptcy. It is bankrupt.

[compn]

oops, i meant, what is the chance that walsh r-livonia committee denies the 200-300mil payment to detroit's pensions?

[corktownyuppie]

oops, i meant, what is the chance that walsh r-livonia committee denies the 200-300mil payment to detroit's pensions?

Ah. Interesting question. Everything is speculation at this point, but here are my thoughts...

- I think Walsh and the committee will be in favor of making the state payment.

- Even Bolger r-marshall himself is in favor of the State settlement...if the unions make a donation toward the settlement as well.

- Public opinion statewide is well in favor of the state settlement, the public pressure against throwing away $700MM in private help and leaving pensioners with 40% cut is IMHO very strong.

- Lastly, the growing trend is that as more outstate legislators become more informed that this isn't a "bailout" in the traditional sense [[it's a settlement...and choosing not to settle brings great litigation risk), that this is an opportunity to create real reforms, and that pensioners are still taking a cut even with the settlement, make this easier to swallow.

- But, I think the GOP are going to add some hard-to-swallow strings. I also think Bolger's demand for Union aid resonates well with the GOP.

- And I think it will be a very close vote.

Lastly, I would not rule out the possibility that the whole deal falls through and that Snyder and the GOP get it approved during the lame duck period, which may mean that Orr might need to have his stay here extended by 4-6 months.

To conclude, I think it will happen. But the process will get ugly, messy, and there's gonna be some bruised egos along the way.

[Novine]

It either happens now or it never happens. There's nothing in the dynamics that's going to change between now and in the lame duck. Despite what the polling says, there seems to be very a lot of anti feelings outstate for a Detroit bailout so it wouldn't be a surprise if this goes down especially if there are anti-union provisions that drive away Democrats.

[corktownyuppie]

It either happens now or it never happens. There's nothing in the dynamics that's going to change between now and in the lame duck. Despite what the polling says, there seems to be very a lot of anti feelings outstate for a Detroit bailout so it wouldn't be a surprise if this goes down especially if there are anti-union provisions that drive away Democrats.

There are reports of GM, Chrysler, and Ford ponying up toward the "Grand Bargain". If they do, I think pressure on the Unions to make a donation will go up.

I'm not one leading the charge to get them on board, but at the same time, when everyone else and their brother is putting in, it is a little strange that that they're not taking some ownership over this.

I don't even hold unions solely responsible for this situation. But if we're all going to pitch in and help for the greater good, then let's *ALL* pitch in and help for the greater good.

[Novine]

Notice how Bolger has never attached a number to his demand? That's because it's for political posturing, not actual negotiation.

[Hermod]

Notice how Bolger has never attached a number to his demand? That's because it's for political posturing, not actual negotiation.

The union "contribution" he has in mind may just be on the part of the municipal unions to renegotiate existing contracts to alleviate the financial strain on Detroit rather than a cash contribution.

[coracle]

It's not a bailout or a settlement it's a cop-out - we are giving money to an entity that spends it's own money on building a new Hockey Arena complex while expecting others to save its Pensioners from sliding into poverty. It doesn't even want to borrow it; it just wants it. It stinks. The time to stop the trend is now before the bailout/settlement/cop-out becomes the "entitlement".

[corktownyuppie]

It's not a bailout or a settlement it's a cop-out - we are giving money to an entity that spends it's own money on building a new Hockey Arena complex while expecting others to save its Pensioners from sliding into poverty. It doesn't even want to borrow it; it just wants it. It stinks. The time to stop the trend is now before the bailout/settlement/cop-out becomes the "entitlement".

There's good cause to disagree with the Hockey Arena, but I feel compelled to emphasize that it's not City Money, and so none of the money that would come from the state would go toward the Downtown Development Authority.

[coracle]

There's good cause to disagree with the Hockey Arena, but I feel compelled to emphasize that it's not City Money, and so none of the money that would come from the state would go toward the Downtown Development Authority.

The Downtown Development Authority should divert it's Funds to the Detroit Pensioners then. They have far more responsibility for them than the State has [[which is none). And the DDA can then ask the State to give them the vital funds they need for their developments. Do you think cities and towns don't "raid" their allocated funds to pay for their pet projects? Pensions are not a Detroit pet project, only inasmuch as it eases money from soft sources more readily than DDA projects do.

[Gistok]

The Downtown Development Authority should divert it's Funds to the Detroit Pensioners then. They have far more responsibility for them than the State has [[which is none). And the DDA can then ask the State to give them the vital funds they need for their developments. Do you think cities and towns don't "raid" their allocated funds to pay for their pet projects? Pensions are not a Detroit pet project, only inasmuch as it eases money from soft sources more readily than DDA projects do.

Coracle... it defies logic trying to make sense out of this paragraph.... apparently you are unaware that by law tax increment funds are not legally usable for other purposes besides development....

[coracle]

Coracle... it defies logic trying to make sense out of this paragraph.... apparently you are unaware that by law tax increment funds are not legally usable for other purposes besides development....

You can change stupid laws when they stand in the way - ask Conyers.
Except for not paying Banks/Creditors/Investors/Bond holders what they owe them and extracting contributions/settlements [[for what?) out of State/Suburbs/DIA/Philanthropists, what is the DETROIT TAXPAYER'S CONTRIBUTION to its own Bankruptcy?
Bankruptcy isn't so bad if you don't have to liquidate any of your assets, don't have to pay your bills and somebody steps in and gives you the money to carry on as you were with promises of better to come. I might even do it a second time.

[Novine]

Except for the city dollars that are diverted to the DDA.

[ABetterDetroit]

A some threads just bring out the "haters" that really don't know what they are all talking about, but boy do they know how to hate.

[mwilbert]

I don't think in this case we are really talking about right or wrong. There have already been changes and there will be more. Whether it is possible to make sufficient changes to reach fiscal stability in the context of the limited resources available to the city is unknown. My personal opinion is that if the city is run properly and some of the burden of past obligations is lifted, it can function reasonably with the resources available, but I could easily be wrong about that.

I don't think there is any way it can be to everyone's advantage though. The bankruptcy process is all about distributing pain in an equitable [[by some standard, anyway) way, but that doesn't make the pain go away.

[coracle]

erikd - #21
You may pay the highest taxes but what has that got to do with anything? Do you want someone else to pay them for you as well as their own?
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You've certainly nailed the knack of producing Retirees.
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You haven't "lost" the 58% population.They decided they wanted to leave.They're paying taxes somewhere else.
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I was never at your Dinner Party so why should I pay ANY part of the your tab? Now you've taken over the Restaurant and persuaded your customers to leave you still want them to pay for what the staff eat. Isn't that like having your cake and eating it too? [[pun intended). In fact there are about 8,000,000 in Michigan that weren't at your party being lined up to pay for what they didn't eat.

[Hypestyles]

I doubt that there's going to be a resolution that won't reduce city services even more.