Old Summit Place Mall.

[jw101]

Way back when, the Summit Place Mall was a staple in Metro Detroit shopping destinations. Now abandoned, the huge mall sitting on Telegraph and Elizabeth Lake Rd in Waterford hasn't seen action for years. The main reason why it closed was because of competition; The mall itself was not unique enough to stay alive. Every now and then, there's a proposal- so far, a failed baseball park proposal, along with a failed Walmart proposal. Now, to what I said earlier [[was not unique enough). Why do we continue to build the same things over and over again? Somerset, 12 Oaks, Lakeside, Great Lakes, Partridge Creek, they're all the same, only PC is outdoors. Yeah, that's cool. Why don't we all join together to create something the WORLD has never seen before? While I do have a few ideas in mind [[Shopping canals with boat tours, outdoor local art display and local art stage , heated sidewalks for winter, man-made mountains with a nature trail and a hotel, state-of-the-art go kart track, and a few thrill rides ), I feel that more people equals more creativity. I'm looking into starting a Kickstarter campaign later, but now, I want to see what you all think. Thanks!

[Bham1982]

If you want cheesy mega-malls with roller coasters and artificial ski mountains, they are already quite a few. Mall of America, West Edmonton Mall, that new mall in Jersey across from Manhattan.

[jw101]

If you want cheesy mega-malls with roller coasters and artificial ski mountains, they are already quite a few. Mall of America, West Edmonton Mall, that new mall in Jersey across from Manhattan.

I think you should read the ENTIRE post... then come back with similar malls. Are there any? Thank you.

[48202]

If you want cheesy mega-malls with roller coasters and artificial ski mountains, they are already quite a few. Mall of America, West Edmonton Mall, that new mall in Jersey across from Manhattan.

The mall in New Jersey that Bham refers to was originally called Xanadu, and then called American Dream Meadowlands. I am confident that jw101 can build a mall as successful as this one, funded by a Kickstarter campaign.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands

Over 10 years in development, some of the most powerful people in New Jersey and New York involved, multiple bankruptcies - and never completed. We're not the only community with deep-rooted political problems or development fiascos.

[jw101]

The mall in New Jersey that Bham refers to was originally called Xanadu, and then called American Dream Meadowlands. I am confident that jw101 can build a mall as successful as this one, funded by a Kickstarter campaign.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands

Over 10 years in development, some of the most powerful people in New Jersey and New York involved, multiple bankruptcies - and never completed. We're not the only community with deep-rooted political problems or development fiascos.

Thank you! And wow, that's nice! Although something like that seems too big for even itself. And you know what they say, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Man, that's gonna be a mess. Anyways, As unique as my idea is, it will stay small and simple.. shopping canals, boat tours, no more than 3 thrill rides [[don't want to compete with Cedar Point).The shopping canals definitely keep Michigan's "Water Wonderland" tradition going. And the man-made mountain will give it a California-like feel. I was in LA a month ago, and stayed on the canals, close to the ocean and mountains, and I was totally inspired to bring something like that to Detroit someday. And mark my words, I WILL do it!

[mtburb]

The mall in New Jersey that Bham refers to was originally called Xanadu, and then called American Dream Meadowlands. I am confident that jw101 can build a mall as successful as this one, funded by a Kickstarter campaign.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands

Over 10 years in development, some of the most powerful people in New Jersey and New York involved, multiple bankruptcies - and never completed. We're not the only community with deep-rooted political problems or development fiascos.

I heard somewhere that this was originally going to feature some sort of indoor ski hill-am I wrong? Also, I believe the company who originally started constructing this more than ten years ago got the concept after constructing a similar-scale mall in Spain-that one was actually completed and opened in 2003.

Now, Universal, Northland, Eastland and Summit Place aren't the only ones either already gone or heading that way-down here, the Southgate Shopping Center has been stuck in some sort of death spiral ever since Montgomery Ward closed [[however, the outlot still has several successful chain restaurants-although they are only successful because of the movie theater that was built behind the center back in 1998), the Lincoln Park Shopping Center was also "Detroited" [[that plus a couple failed Walmart proposals) and all tenants literally left [[except for Sears itself) and a smaller shopping center in Wyandotte called the Fort-Grove Shopping Center could use some modernizing on the storefront facades.

[Bham1982]

I heard somewhere that this was originally going to feature some sort of indoor ski hill-am I wrong? Also, I believe the company who originally started constructing this more than ten years ago got the concept after constructing a similar-scale mall in Spain-that one was actually completed and opened in 2003.

Yes, it will have an artificial ski slope. It's actually happening now, after two bankruptcies and a couple billion spent/wasted.

[rb336]

you were right about the Hudson's remodel being a prototype.

No, they haven't really renovated in a while, but it doesn't look anywhere near decrepit. There aren't a lot of vacancies, the place is always busy.

[Bham1982]

you were right about the Hudson's remodel being a prototype.

No, they haven't really renovated in a while, but it doesn't look anywhere near decrepit. There aren't a lot of vacancies, the place is always busy.

I see plenty of vacancies, and have never seen the place busy in recent years.

Have you seen the second level lately? It seems half the floor is vacant and the other half is "Dollar Explosionz" or temporary junk stores.

[Hermod]

Summit Place/Pontiac Mall got "Pontiaced" just like Northland and Eastland got "Detroited". Malls that are pleasant survive. Malls that become unpleasant die.

[Johnnny5]

Summit Place/Pontiac Mall got "Pontiaced" just like Northland and Eastland got "Detroited". Malls that are pleasant survive. Malls that become unpleasant die.

I think the "unpleasantness" was more of a symptom of Summit Place's decline, not the cause. Great Lakes Crossing killed Summit Place without a doubt! Not only did it draw away some of the existing retailers, but it also provided an alternative for any retailers that may have been considering opening a store in Summit Place. After the stores starting leaving the owners had little incentive to make improvements as it was pretty obvious that competing with Great Lakes Crossing would have been a lost cause.

[GUSHI]

Universal, Oakland, Going buh-bye, slowly but surely. P/c does have heated sidewalks, the one in Rochester is also outdoors,

[rb336]

Oakland doesn't seem in any danger I can see

[GUSHI]

Oakland doesn't seem in any danger I can see

Oakland mall, is becoming/is ghetto, a lot more theft, police chase etc, etc, etc.

[Danny]

Oakland mall, is becoming/is ghetto, a lot more theft, police chase etc, etc, etc.

FYI... Oakland Mall is not a ghetto mall like Northland and Eastland Malls. It's a mall where ethnic Asians hang out, sit down in the middle atrium and chit chat. Those people don't have their own community centers, yet. But it least those people are keeping mall alive.

[dtowncitylover]

Oakland mall, is becoming/is ghetto, a lot more theft, police chase etc, etc, etc.

I wouldn't say it's "ghetto", whatever that means [[do you care to extrapolate?). I would say it's a lot more diverse. I grew up going to that mall and it was mostly the white, working/middle classes of Mad Heights, South Troy, Royal Oak, and Hazel Park/Ferndale. Now it's more Asians and Arabs who have moved into the surrounding area or blacks who don't want to deal with Northland or Eastland. The better off middle class shoppers have since moved onto Somerset [[the day they found out Oakland Mall Macy's had an "urban" section ).

I think Oakland Mall is pretty sound. It has always catered well to the demographics of the area without turning itself into a dead mall. And due to the fact the John R/14 Mile area still has stores that are all heavily traffic-ed [[Target, Best Buy, DSW, BB&B, B&N), it's still a viable mall.

[EastsideAl]

Malls, like department stores, are a dying business model everywhere. The number of "dead" or slowly dying malls is multiplying as all of the older marginal malls in marginal locations [[like Pontiac/Summit Place) get choked out. The future of retailing seems to inevitably be the internet and big box super stores, with a few Somerset like luxury spots for the 10% who increasingly have all the money.

[Danny]

Malls, like department stores, are a dying business model everywhere. The number of "dead" or slowly dying malls is multiplying as all of the older marginal malls in marginal locations [[like Pontiac/Summit Place) get choked out. The future of retailing seems to inevitably be the internet and big box super stores, with a few Somerset like luxury spots for the 10% who increasingly have all the money.

Most American shopping malls become 'greyfield's. if it lost their anchor stores. Northland Mall is verge of becoming a dying mall. I don't see much white middle class and their kids hanging out there. JCPenney's and T.J. Maxx and Ward's are long gone. Target came to the rescue. In place black folks are shopping there and fine retail chains are replaced by black owned shops. There's even a tattoo parlor there. Just recently a black man was killed by couple of mall cops.

Eastland Mall is also in the verge of becoming a dead mall. JCPenney's left replaced by SEARS and they left. Target came to the rescue. A movie theater is long gone. Ward's is finished replaced Smith and Barney's then Shopper's World took over only occupying the first floor. Burlington came to anchor its eastern corner. Fewew black owned shops are there and more shooting incidents loomed. White folks who mostly came the the 5 richvilles used to shop there, when poor and low-income black folks from Detroit came to Eastland to hang-out and create riff-raff. That became a problem for Eastland Mgt. So they took Fairlane Mall's advice and instituted a 5pm. curfew for kids under the age of 17. No kid is to be shopping in Eastland Mall without an adult or be escorted out by mall cops.

[rex]

They could turn some of the shops into storage for boats & cars or whatever else, indoor skate park, paintball place

[GUSHI]

Oakland mall has a lot of crime, that entire area is going down hill, a lot has to do with if being by 75, easy acces for criminals to escape. a lot of empty stores right behind the mall, ex old circuit city, a lot nicer cleaner newer malls in the area, somerset. The outdoor mall in rochester, partridge creek.

[dtowncitylover]

Oakland mall has a lot of crime, that entire area is going down hill, a lot has to do with if being by 75, easy acces for criminals to escape. a lot of empty stores right behind the mall, ex old circuit city, a lot nicer cleaner newer malls in the area, somerset. The outdoor mall in rochester, partridge creek.

That's it. ONE, former Circuit City store that's empty. I'm not saying John R/14 Mile is the new Hall Rd or whatever but it's always busy on a Saturday afternoon and there's many business parks around there. K-Mart's old HQ is still empty, does this make Somerset "ghetto"? Hardly.

The area has not gone down hill. Just because the demographics have changed doesn't mean it's gone down hill.

[Bham1982]

The area has not gone down hill. Just because the demographics have changed doesn't mean it's gone down hill.

Oakland Mall area has most definitely gone downhill.

Oakland Mall Hudsons was the highest grossing Hudsons in Michigan during the 1980's and 1990's. Oakland Mall was the highest grossing mall in Metro Detroit.

Now the current Macys struggles, the mall has lots of vacancies [[and tons of low end stores- dollar stores, cash for gold and a puppy mill). Somerset North killed Oakland Mall.

Just to illustrate how bad things have fallen, Lord & Taylor signed a lease for a new store, as part of a mall expansion, around 15 years ago. They later cancelled, and project was scrapped. Can you imagine such a proposal now?

[Danny]

Oakland Mall area has most definitely gone downhill.

Oakland Mall Hudsons was the highest grossing Hudsons in Michigan during the 1980's and 1990's. Oakland Mall was the highest grossing mall in Metro Detroit.

Now the current Macys struggles, the mall has lots of vacancies [[and tons of low end stores- dollar stores, cash for gold and a puppy mill). Somerset North killed Oakland Mall.

Just to illustrate how bad things have fallen, Lord & Taylor signed a lease for a new store, as part of a mall expansion, around 15 years ago. They later cancelled, and project was scrapped. Can you imagine such a proposal now?

I'm agreeing with dtownlover. Oakland Mall is not going downhill. It's not a ghetto mall like Northland or Eastland. I go there myself and I haven't see empty storefronts and closed up anchors. Lot's a Asians and East Indian love to hang out there along with the middle class white folks from Troy and Birmingham and other areas. It's still booming today like it did back in the 1970s.

[DetroitPlanner]

Just to illustrate how bad things have fallen, Lord & Taylor signed a lease for a new store, as part of a mall expansion, around 15 years ago. They later cancelled, and project was scrapped. Can you imagine such a proposal now?

L&T also was owned by May who briefly owned then sold Marshall Fields to Macy's. It was during Marshall Field ownership at that time they abandoned any expansion of stores in the Detroit market as they were already well stored. A lot of people assume that L&T was closed at Fairlane due to the issue with the rent a cop murdering the thief, but it was actually the first of many divestments that May found themselves with when they realized that they had many stores competing against each other for the same market share.

Frankly, I am surprised at you Bham. You typically know your stuff. I may not agree with it all the time, but you typically base your positions on more than just what the rah-rah-sis-boom-bah crowd says.

[GUSHI]

macomb mall is ghetto to