What is today's protest At City-County about?

[Smirnoff]

For the record: Plenty of $15/hr jobs available.....all the applicant needs is the proper skills, experience, education. Entitlement is not required.....

[guito13]

Oddly enough, nobody is protesting those things. You're making things up, which is what your types do.

WE DEMAND:
• Moratorium on all Bank and Tax foreclosures, evictions, and utility shutoffs for people. Housing and water are Human Rights!

Really? How do you read that one? Explain how that cannot be interpreted as every person should have a home by whatever means necessary.

[guito13]

Part of what we pay for a society. I don't want the homeless panhandling on the streets. I do agree with the old strictures for government support such as "taking the pauper's oath" and a system of work houses/poor houses/poor farms [[operated in a sanitary manner and with adequate nutrition). Yes, we have to pay taxes for that just as we pay taxes to support education, public safety [[police, fire/EMS), public roads, water and sewer, and the other elements of a society which isn't just "every man for himself".

In return, the government has to be a "good steward" of our tax monies [[of which the government of Detroit has obviously failed).

See that is a concept that I have always agreed with. If someone needs help from the government, fine, but you should have to work for it unless you are physically unable.

[guito13]

It's not worth discussing these issues with guito13. [[S)he's the type that believes all poor people are "lazy".

I wonder if guito13 is a white laborer. Or "working class" as some call it.

I work, and have worked since the age of 12 with no time off. From my first job as a paperboy, working through college, and working my way up.

[noise]

Privileged? Yes, i am privileged to work my ass off, get an education, and get a job to take care of myself an my family. I saw my dad do this. He worked overtime shifts and went to school at night to take care of his family. I saw this and I try to emulate his work ethic.

Everyone has the same privileges as I do. Some choose not to utilize them, and i choose to not want to support or encourage such behavior.

Wow, pull your head out of your ass, buddy.

[noise]

I don't believe people deserve a nice home and all their bills paid because they choose to be lazy.

WE DEMAND:
• Moratorium on all Bank and Tax foreclosures, evictions, and utility shutoffs for people. Housing and water are Human Rights!

Really? How do you read that one? Explain how that cannot be interpreted as every person should have a home by whatever means necessary.

Come on. Obviously not the same thing. Try a little. Keep your unproven and factually incorrect opinions and assertions out of this.

[noise]

I work, and have worked since the age of 12 with no time off. From my first job as a paperboy, working through college, and working my way up.

Right. A "me, me, me" type without a quality education.

[Hermod]

See that is a concept that I have always agreed with. If someone needs help from the government, fine, but you should have to work for it unless you are physically unable.

Food, shelter, and employment should not be considered as "rights" of the individual, but rather as "obligations" on the part of society to be delivered on terms dictated by "society".

[nain rouge]

These middle class people that just "work, work, work" their whole lives are comically tragic. Here we are in a society that has a ridiculous overabundance, but you allow a little artificial scarcity imposed by money and resource hoarders to scare you into laboring all day long like a subsistence farmer.

Take your blinders off and realize that it doesn't have to be this way. In a better world, you'd be able to put the majority of your labors towards activities meaningful to you. Rather than working in an unnecessary service job built on exploitative inefficiencies so the big power players will grant you a tiny bit of access to the world's gross economic output, you could rid yourself of the perpetual fear of "losing your job" and live in relative comfort.

If we'd just wake up...

[Wesley Mouch]

[/I][/COLOR]
Come on. Obviously not the same thing. Try a little. Keep your unproven and factually incorrect opinions and assertions out of this.

Noise... OK, let's go with your idea then.

So noise, if we grant that housing and water are human rights, how does society manifest those rights?

The posters point is that if you grant an absolute right, you also grant the right to somehow obtain these things.

We have actual history and facts about how communism decided that housing was 'owned by the people'. This meant confiscation and reallocation of housing to real human beings within that last 100 years -- and certainly today if you include N. Korea. So we know that this idea can and has been taken to extremes.

In your view, how do you think society enable people's 'right' to housing and water? Should all housing and water be state run? Who will pay for housing for those who can't or won't pay? Do you think its good public policy to provide housing to people without conditions? If so, are there any conditions where they lose their 'right' to housing? Or is it absolute?

[noise]

Noise... OK, let's go with your idea then.

So noise, if we grant that housing and water are human rights, how does society manifest those rights?

The posters point is that if you grant an absolute right, you also grant the right to somehow obtain these things.

We have actual history and facts about how communism decided that housing was 'owned by the people'. This meant confiscation and reallocation of housing to real human beings within that last 100 years -- and certainly today if you include N. Korea. So we know that this idea can and has been taken to extremes.

In your view, how do you think society enable people's 'right' to housing and water? Should all housing and water be state run? Who will pay for housing for those who can't or won't pay? Do you think its good public policy to provide housing to people without conditions? If so, are there any conditions where they lose their 'right' to housing? Or is it absolute?

You didn't go with my idea, as you've mis-characterized my comments.

I did say, from the beginning, that guito13 is incorrect in assuming the protesters are demanding "a nice home and all their bills paid because they choose to be lazy." I also asserted that a civil society serves to aid and assist those less fortunate. Finally, I asserted "rights" do exist, whether or not you understand or agree with them.

Just because guito13 is making up their own narrative doesn't mean you must.

Also, that was certainly not guito13's point. guito13's point is that he's an undereducated white guy that thinks everyone is on an even playing field and if you have less than he does it means you're lazy.

[guito13]

Right. A "me, me, me" type without a quality education.

Noise, every reply of yours contains no actual content. You simply say I am wrong. How about you try to gather up a post to tell me why I am wrong and what your take is on it rather than simply try to insult me?

Call me crazy but your quality education appears to be on display here....

[guito13]

You didn't go with my idea, as you've mis-characterized my comments.

I did say, from the beginning, that guito13 is incorrect in assuming the protesters are demanding "a nice home and all their bills paid because they choose to be lazy." I also asserted that a civil society serves to aid and assist those less fortunate. Finally, I asserted "rights" do exist, whether or not you understand or agree with them.

Just because guito13 is making up their own narrative doesn't mean you must.

Also, that was certainly not guito13's point. guito13's point is that he's an undereducated white guy that thinks everyone is on an even playing field and if you have less than he does it means you're lazy.

I could just as soon assume you are an angry black woman who has a severe case of entitlement mentality. Assumptions...well...you know...

Why don't you answer our questions with how you plan to implement this? The resources have to come from somewhere, so where do they come from?

[noise]

Noise, every reply of yours contains no actual content. You simply say I am wrong. How about you try to gather up a post to tell me why I am wrong and what your take is on it rather than simply try to insult me?

Call me crazy but your quality education appears to be on display here....

I'm actually kind of amazed, having read your statements here, that you have the audacity to say this.

For the 10th time, nobody is asking for "nice houses and all their bills paid" because they're "lazy".

[noise]

I could just as soon assume you are an angry black woman who has a server case of entitlement mentality. Assumptions...well...you know...

Why don't you answer our questions with how you plan to implement this? The resources have to come from somewhere, so where do they come from?

Did you miss the part where I never said the things you attributed to me? I don't plan on implementing anything you claim, so how or why would I answer those questions? They're nonsense.

[guito13]

Did you miss the part where I never said the things you attributed to me? I don't plan on implementing anything you claim, so how or why would I answer those questions? They're nonsense.

Ok, so your gripe is where is said "nice houses" but that could be interpreted in many ways. For the purpose of our discussion lets say that nice means four walls, heat and AC, and enough room and amenities to live in a 1st world society. By ALL bills i mean water, electric, gas and phone.

What is your interpretation of what they want? And again, how do you think this should be paid for?

[TKshreve]

Deflection at it finest. See a lot of that on here. Mmmmmm mmm.

[guito13]

Deflection at it finest. See a lot of that on here. Mmmmmm mmm.

It must be a technique that noise learned at his/her time studying at the pristine universities that provided her a superior education to others here.

[TKshreve]

It must be a technique that noise learned at his/her time studying at the pristine universities that provided her a superior education to others here.

It's a legitimate debate, but they have no interest in dealing in factual exchange. Just raw emotion, insinuations and insults. Kinda tells you everything you need to know.

[noise]

Ok, so your gripe is where is said "nice houses" but that could be interpreted in many ways. For the purpose of our discussion lets say that nice means four walls, heat and AC, and enough room and amenities to live in a 1st world society. By ALL bills i mean water, electric, gas and phone.

What is your interpretation of what they want? And again, how do you think this should be paid for?

That's not even close to my only gripe, but you may as well simplify. Complexities are surely not your strong suit.

My argument, that you've misunderstood from post #1, has nothing to do with housing. It does have to do with societal values. Let's tax you more. Grown men crying is always funny. Or just quit wasting the tax money already paid.

Keep setting up a strawman and then get sore when people ignore it. Not playing your childish game is not the same as deflection.

[noise]

It's a legitimate debate, but they have no interest in dealing in factual exchange. Just raw emotion, insinuations and insults. Kinda tells you everything you need to know.

You can't make up a debate and insult the unknowing participant. I haven't even come close to commenting on this nonsense topic.

What's with you people?

[guito13]

That's not even close to my only gripe, but you may as well simplify. Complexities are surely not your strong suit.

My argument, that you've misunderstood from post #1, has nothing to do with housing. It does have to do with societal values. Let's tax you more. Grown men crying is always funny. Or just quit wasting the tax money already paid.

Keep setting up a strawman and then get sore when people ignore it. Not playing your childish game is not the same as deflection.

Again, backhand insults and very little content. I would love to know the name of your company that you own and employ 50 people at so I can be sure to avoid it. Finally you did throw some tidbits of actual conversation into the mix, thanks!

Essentially you think in order to pay to house others that the money should come from people who have worked to better themselves and make more money? Well I only see about 50% of my paycheck as it stands today, I would prefer no more taxes. Or do you think that as long as I take home 30K or so the rest should go to pay for others?

I do however agree with the wasteful government spending. I would love to see that resolved however I believe you and I would want cuts from very different areas of the budget.

[guito13]

You can't make up a debate and insult the unknowing participant. I haven't even come close to commenting on this nonsense topic.

What's with you people?

You replied to comments with insults so you are a knowing and willing participant.

[noise]

Essentially you think in order to pay to house others that the money should come from people who have worked to better themselves and make more money? Well I only see about 50% of my paycheck as it stands today, I would prefer no more taxes. Or do you think that as long as I take home 30K or so the rest should go to pay for others?

Did you really think I was serious when I suggested taxing you more so you could keep crying?

More strawmen.

Remember your first post in this thread? Where you insulted the protesters without knowing what they were protesting? Where you called them lazy for believing in societal values?

Yeah, that's all I've addressed. The rest of your comments are off-topic.

[noise]

You replied to comments with insults so you are a knowing and willing participant.

Yes, but not to whatever conversation you are having with the voices in your head.