When it's all said and done... Detroit - Renaissance or Continuing Decline?

[Dan Wesson]

Hey nicest thing you have said. No one denies crime is high but we as a city are attempting to remedy it. We are armed and alarmed, the security my house has is awesome. I am not afraid, just careful. Depending on destinations we generally have a dog or two in the car. I have area kids make sure they have a buddy with them. If they don't I loan them a dog

I used to live like that, not anymore.
In fact crime is the least of my concerns now days.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I would move back to a more genteel Detroit with all the blight gone, more spacious areas. The lure of the river and lakes has always been a plus for me. Although the big brother of the Border Patrol and Homeland Security is a nonplus. Would be nice to have more access to the easy money a metropolitan area offers.

[mwilbert]

The truth is that no one knows what the hell is going to happen over the next 20 years and the most likely outcome is that the city will be fairly similar to what it is right now.

I guess it depends upon what you think "similar" is, but I think this is the least likely outcome. To me, it is like a kid standing on top of a stump, and because you don't know which way she's going to jump off, you decide the most likely thing is that she is just going to stand there. I think there are pretty certain to be substantial changes in 20 years, but I agree it is hard to know what exactly they will be, and although I have certainly expressed my opinions on this, I don't have a high degree of confidence in them.

[Dan Wesson]

Letters from the front.

Cinco de Mayo becomes Dia de los Muertos

Morales doesn’t know how much more she can take.

“I’ve lived here for 25 years,” she said of the neighborhood. “But it’s getting too bad. Each year, it gets worse and worse.”

[nain rouge]

I think you guys are either in denial or are a little misguided as to what "urban" means.

I've finally left the Detroit area. What made me move? Visiting other cities. For reasons I don't completely understand [[though I have hunches), the Midwest generally has terrible urban environments. Obviously, we have a huge exception in Chicago, and it really embodies the meaning of the word "exception". The rest, is like Des Moines or Oklahoma City on steroids. Head to either coast and the urban neighborhoods improve dramatically. Hell, even make it out to Cincinnati or Pittsburgh and you're going to find districts that put to shame anything in Detroit or Indianapolis.

The Detroit area does have some sophistication. The cuisine and arts are superior to most metropolitan areas with under 3 million people, at least. It's just that quality of the public areas and public life in general is so poor. That's why everyone drives out to the lakes. What are you gonna do in Detroit, eat at another restaurant, drink at another bar, hang out at another bowling alley? And it's always suburbs, suburbs, suburbs. Even Midtown is basically a bizarro world suburb after all the demolitions.

No wonder people are ready to flee up north by the time they retire.

I'm against wearing positivity blinders when discussing Metro Detroit because I think the area really needs a wake-up call. Not that we need pointless negativity, either. We just need realism, and unfortunately the reality is negative. The way I look at it, it's a shame that a region with as much success and wealth as Detroit has failed to build much that'll last. One day, all the cars will be in junk yards, the suburbs decayed out to 20 Mile, and the world will just shake its heads at Metro Detroit from an airplane.

At least I can guarantee that even then, someone will be buzzing about a new development in Midtown. And isn't that great?

[313WX]

I've finally left the Detroit area. What made me move? Visiting other cities. For reasons I don't completely understand [[though I have hunches), the Midwest generally has terrible urban environments. Obviously, we have a huge exception in Chicago, and it really embodies the meaning of the word "exception". The rest, is like Des Moines or Oklahoma City on steroids. Head to either coast and the urban neighborhoods improve dramatically. Hell, even make it out to Cincinnati or Pittsburgh and you're going to find districts that put to shame anything in Detroit or Indianapolis.

The Detroit area does have some sophistication. The cuisine and arts are superior to most metropolitan areas with under 3 million people, at least. It's just that quality of the public areas and public life in general is so poor. That's why everyone drives out to the lakes. What are you gonna do in Detroit, eat at another restaurant, drink at another bar, hang out at another bowling alley? And it's always suburbs, suburbs, suburbs. Even Midtown is basically a bizarro world suburb after all the demolitions.

No wonder people are ready to flee up north by the time they retire.

I'm against wearing positivity blinders when discussing Metro Detroit because I think the area really needs a wake-up call. Not that we need pointless negativity, either. We just need realism, and unfortunately the reality is negative. The way I look at it, it's a shame that a region with as much success and wealth as Detroit has failed to build much that'll last. One day, all the cars will be in junk yards, the suburbs decayed out to 20 Mile, and the world will just shake its heads at Metro Detroit from an airplane.

At least I can guarantee that even then, someone will be buzzing about a new development in Midtown. And isn't that great?

^^^We truly need thumbs ups/downs or positive/negative reputation buttons on this site...

[maverick1]

I've finally left the Detroit area. What made me move? Visiting other cities. For reasons I don't completely understand [[though I have hunches), the Midwest generally has terrible urban environments. Obviously, we have a huge exception in Chicago, and it really embodies the meaning of the word "exception". The rest, is like Des Moines or Oklahoma City on steroids. Head to either coast and the urban neighborhoods improve dramatically. Hell, even make it out to Cincinnati or Pittsburgh and you're going to find districts that put to shame anything in Detroit or Indianapolis.

The Detroit area does have some sophistication. The cuisine and arts are superior to most metropolitan areas with under 3 million people, at least. It's just that quality of the public areas and public life in general is so poor. That's why everyone drives out to the lakes. What are you gonna do in Detroit, eat at another restaurant, drink at another bar, hang out at another bowling alley? And it's always suburbs, suburbs, suburbs. Even Midtown is basically a bizarro world suburb after all the demolitions.

No wonder people are ready to flee up north by the time they retire.

I'm against wearing positivity blinders when discussing Metro Detroit because I think the area really needs a wake-up call. Not that we need pointless negativity, either. We just need realism, and unfortunately the reality is negative. The way I look at it, it's a shame that a region with as much success and wealth as Detroit has failed to build much that'll last. One day, all the cars will be in junk yards, the suburbs decayed out to 20 Mile, and the world will just shake its heads at Metro Detroit from an airplane.

At least I can guarantee that even then, someone will be buzzing about a new development in Midtown. And isn't that great?

This sums up how I see Detroit although I still have a home here [[although I'm currently living in Western NY). I do agree that it's all about suburbs here but what I've been noticing is a low key fight between the cosmopolitan residents of Metro Detroit and the old school suburban proponents. I think the brain drain is a significant cause of this. People like me move and leave the region to be managed by the LBP types. The LBP types are dying out but it's slow because they refuse to go and they still have a significant voting base. I think the last elections [[2010/12) in Oakland County shows how much it has changed but the regressive minded people won't go quietly.

[maverick1]

^^^We truly need thumbs ups/downs or positive/negative reputation buttons on this site...

I agree. Her comment is dead on IMHO.

[Honky Tonk]

I agree. Her comment is dead on IMHO.

It's sad when people are unable to express themselves these days without the aid of a "button".

[313WX]

It's sad when people are unable to express themselves these days without the aid of a "button".

Well sometimes, when you've said what you wanted to say so many times and someone else has expressed the way you feel to a tee, all that's really needed is a sign of approval/agreement.

[Hermod]

Well sometimes, when you've said what you wanted to say so many times and someone else has expressed the way you feel to a tee, all that's really needed is a sign of approval/agreement.

You type "I agree wholeheartedly".

The problem with rec and unrec buttons is that the threads dissolve into such things as "who had the nerve to unrec my thread" and the battles between the reccers and unreccers over who can push the button the most times and they keep score.

[313WX]

You type "I agree wholeheartedly".

The problem with rec and unrec buttons is that the threads dissolve into such things as "who had the nerve to unrec my thread" and the battles between the reccers and unreccers over who can push the button the most times and they keep score.

City Data's forum has managed just fine with reputation buttons. Granted, they don't allow negative reps, just positive reps.

Always typing "I agree wholeheartedly" gets old, and is arguably a waste of a post.

In any event, I did not intend for my post to create an off-topic discussion about the subject.

[iheartthed]

I've finally left the Detroit area. What made me move? Visiting other cities. For reasons I don't completely understand [[though I have hunches), the Midwest generally has terrible urban environments. Obviously, we have a huge exception in Chicago, and it really embodies the meaning of the word "exception". The rest, is like Des Moines or Oklahoma City on steroids. Head to either coast and the urban neighborhoods improve dramatically. Hell, even make it out to Cincinnati or Pittsburgh and you're going to find districts that put to shame anything in Detroit or Indianapolis.

Welcome to the dark side. The Midwest has very decayed urban environments... it's almost like there was a collective decision to just abandon them.

[canuck]

Welcome to the dark side. The Midwest has very decayed urban environments... it's almost like there was a collective decision to just abandon them.

There may be a bit of an answer in this comparison to midwestern urbanity vs other types.

Pittsburgh is not a midwestern city but culturally and economically tied to the midwest, and is often lauded on this forum for its capacity to rebound, especially its downtown. But there seems to be a geographic reason to add to its favorable outcome apart from all the other stuff.


Geographically, the city is partitioned in interesting ways, and the downtown is centered in a strategic magnetizing area. Most midwestern cities tent to be flat and sprawly whereas Pittsburgh is cloistered and very hilly. The center sort of acts in a stabilizing way to this very complex landscape, I think. The physical boundaries help to define and shape the place since it has nowhere else to go but up in density. I think this explains partly the lack of abandonment even as appears in smaller rust-belt cities in Pennsylvania.

[Bham1982]

Pittsburgh is not a midwestern city but culturally and economically tied to the midwest, and is often lauded on this forum for its capacity to rebound, especially its downtown. But there seems to be a geographic reason to add to its favorable outcome apart from all the other stuff.

Metro Pittsburgh is shrinking. Metro Detroit is growing.

[maverick1]

Welcome to the dark side. The Midwest has very decayed urban environments... it's almost like there was a collective decision to just abandon them.

To an extent I think there was a collective decision to abandon them. At least economically.

[steve from virginia]

I think that the future of Detroit, and America in general, will turn out to be much different than the vast majority of people envision. After 60 years of suburban sprawl and auto-centric development, most Americans, and especially metro Detroiters, have come to believe that America will be a suburban nation forever.

Eric D's remarks are spot-on. We have run out of resources to waste. Everything will change. The following need to be fixed:

- Detroit very poor transit, too dependent upon cars. [[Detroit needs to get into the streetcar business!)

- Deteriorated/obsolete retail infrastructure. [[Build new retail w/ residencies on upper floors.)

- Few really dense neighborhoods, residences tend to be on a suburban pattern. [[Reconfigure empty neighborhoods with higher density dwellings, non-grid street layouts, new services infrastructure.)

- Too many predatory businesses: payday lenders, liquor stores, rent-to-buy furniture stores, gas station/'convenience' stores, etc. [[Change zoning to remove these businesses.)

- Public safety issues ... [[restructure emergency services to improve efficiency.)

[sumas]

Steve from Virginia forgot to mention wig shops.

However a short distance from our house we have staples, cvs, walgreen 4 gas stations 2 furniture stores [[one sells appliances) a Tubbies, a great deli/coney, brand new Motel with pool, Jacuzzis etc) 3 grocery stores, 4 pizzerias, 2 great hardware stores, eastern market, 1 resale shop, a shoe repair, 2 barber shops, 2 coffee shops, 2 Chinese restaurants, 1 florist, 3 banks, 4 liquor stores, 2 dealerships, 2 carwash, 2 dollar stores one is national, 1 hospital, 3 walk in clinics and the list could go on. I can get pretty much get anything I want in 3 sq miles. Strangely, I have to go to burbs for mulch for my garden, not much else.

[DetroitNightLights]

Detroit, the future of America it is and has always been.

At some point people forgot this and started too think it was an isolated case or was living in the past. What if it turns out Detroit was the future all along, just as it had always been? There may be no escaping the truth that in order to make America great again, you first have to make Detroit great again.

Detroit, future city!

[night-timer]

Municipal bankruptcy could soon affect other cities sometime, too. I've been told Chicago is nearing that stage.

Maybe the cities most reliant on businesses involved in manufacturing, and manufacturers as employers of the local population, will get hit soonest.

I think Detroit will rebuild the way it did on its first wave in the Industrial Age - starting Downtown [[new businesses and employers), expanding out to the suburbs if and when jobs and prosperity Downtown leads to a demand for suburban housing.

[emu steve]

Municipal bankruptcy could soon affect other cities sometime, too. I've been told Chicago is nearing that stage.

Maybe the cities most reliant on businesses involved in manufacturing, and manufacturers as employers of the local population, will get hit soonest.

I think Detroit will rebuild the way it did on its first wave in the Industrial Age - starting Downtown [[new businesses and employers), expanding out to the suburbs if and when jobs and prosperity Downtown leads to a demand for suburban housing.

Agree. I have consistently, I think, made the point that Detroit's future is tied to a large degree to the continued growth in downtown employment [[including Midtown and also New Center).

"Journey [[commute) to work" is always a prime consideration for picking a locale for residence.

Moving employment away from a city's downtown encourages suburban residence and housing. If some employer built a 500 employee office building in Dearborn, it would do nothing for Detroit.

The hope is that those working in downtown will look to close-in neighborhoods and encourage the development or revitalization of those close-in neighborhoods, e.g., downtown, Midtown, New Center, river front, Cork town, etc. and other surrounding neighborhoods will also revitalize.

[DetroitNightLights]

Families!!!

[ABetterDetroit]

Wow. Just skipping thru this 4 year old thread it is amazing how devoid of political ideology it was here such a short time ago.

[O3H]

Let's imagine for an instant , a person has ZERO care about :
1.) sports, doesn't attend hockey, basketball, football
2.) casinos, doesn't care to loose hard earned cash
3.) bars, just isn't into the mixology/cocktail thing {drive home DUI}
4.) food, is an excellent cook, can make just about anything

With that being said, the "draw" to come downtown and explore,
is what exactly _______________?_ [[fill in the blank)

[southen]

Belle Isle, Eastern Market, Dequindre Cut, the Riverwalk and corresponding parks, museums and world class architecture. I started exploring the city when I turned 16 and none of the four points listed are why I fell for the place and years later bought a home here.

[SammyS]

Let's imagine for an instant , a person has ZERO care about :
1.) sports, doesn't attend hockey, basketball, football
2.) casinos, doesn't care to loose hard earned cash
3.) bars, just isn't into the mixology/cocktail thing {drive home DUI}
4.) food, is an excellent cook, can make just about anything

With that being said, the "draw" to come downtown and explore,
is what exactly _______________?_ [[fill in the blank)

You're describing me [[minus the cooking) and I can't wait to live there. Raised in a big city and recently grew quite sick of suburban life. Maybe I'll change my mind after a few years but for now, I'm looking forward to it