When it's all said and done... Detroit - Renaissance or Continuing Decline?

[sumas]

I always get a kick out of this summation above: “MY area kids the best.”
Isn’t it such a classic example of the Lake Woebegone Effect?

“The Lake Wobegon effect is the human tendency to overestimate one's achievements and capabilities in relation to others.
It is named for the fictional town of Lake Wobegon from the radio series A Prairie Home Companion, where, according to Garrison Keillor, "all the children are above average. “

Yes dear, no one needs your prompts. Yes MYKIDS in the area are above average. Serious disadvantaged. Crap half of them have never been in a grocery store, a museum or a real library. None of that makes them stupid. So we do our little bit to expose them to the bigger world.We were begged to take them to our church.[[that was weird) MYKIDS are hungry for experiences. Yes that makes them smart. They are polite and adorable and I hope we do our little bit to keep them that way. Please come and assist with reading programs, homework help, piano lessons, hey buy them a computer, take them to the zoo, church, out for lunch that isn't chips and pop. Invest in a rec center. We are buying a pool so they can have something this summer. MYKIDS are worth investing in. Just saying!

[FlyOnTheWall]

That's what happens when cranky Ann Arbor/Birmingham/etc residents decide they need to chime in about how terrible Detroit is while refusing to cooperate on making the region better

Hmmm.... I guess I'll have to head over to these places and listen to them complain about Detroit refusing to make their cities better. Do you think I'd hear that??

[iheartthed]

I find it hard to believe that St. Clair county needs 140 square miles of City services.

You're right. St. Clair County is 836 square miles.

[mwilbert]

Hmmm.... I guess I'll have to head over to these places and listen to them complain about Detroit refusing to make their cities better. Do you think I'd hear that??

The comment was about making the region better, not Detroit. And yes, I think you might well hear comments to the effect that Detroit needed to cooperate to make the region better.

[ghettopalmetto]

You're right. St. Clair County is 836 square miles.

Wow. 836 square miles. Think of all the vinyl-sided tract homes, strip malls, "lifestyle centers" and ten-lane roads we can build in that area...

...and then complain that Detroit has gone to hell in a handbasket.

[FlyOnTheWall]

The comment was about making the region better, not Detroit. And yes, I think you might well hear comments to the effect that Detroit needed to cooperate to make the region better.

The region isn't broke and bankrupt, Detroit is. The region doesn't want to go bankrupt trying to fix Detroit. Why throw good money after bad?

[Honky Tonk]

Wow. 836 square miles. Think of all the vinyl-sided tract homes, strip malls, "lifestyle centers" and ten-lane roads we can build in that area...

...and then complain that Detroit has gone to hell in a handbasket.

People build where there's a demand. There's a demand because of certain situations in their current local. There are certain situations in their current local because of neglect and poor leadership. It's a chain of events that causes ticky-tacky homes and highways to be built.

[iheartthed]

The region isn't broke and bankrupt, Detroit is. The region doesn't want to go bankrupt trying to fix Detroit. Why throw good money after bad?

Only Detroit, Pontiac, Highland Park, Hamtramck, Ecorse and Lincoln Park.

[Honky Tonk]

Only Detroit, Pontiac, Highland Park, Hamtramck, Ecorse and Lincoln Park.

Back to my original post, all the above mentioned places are in Wayne County.

[jimmyr]

Only Detroit, Pontiac, Highland Park, Hamtramck, Ecorse and Lincoln Park.

Inkster and Wayne?

[iheartthed]

Back to my original post, all the above mentioned places are in Wayne County.

I thought Pontiac was the county seat of Oakland County?

[jimmyr]

The region isn't broke and bankrupt, Detroit is. The region doesn't want to go bankrupt trying to fix Detroit. Why throw good money after bad?

To add to that, the city has shown zero accountability for the funds they've received over 50 years. "But this time it's different. Promise!" Try that with a credit card company after you've missed payments, defaulted or filed for bankruptcy. Ha! This whole idea that the region "needs" Detroit to prosper is bologna. Connecticut's major cities are violent, historically Washington D.C. has been horrible yet is surrounded by the most affluent counties in the nation, I could go on and on.

[ghettopalmetto]

The region isn't broke and bankrupt, Detroit is. The region doesn't want to go bankrupt trying to fix Detroit. Why throw good money after bad?

Several reasons:

1. Detroit was situated due to geographical advantage. The Detroit River is an important shipping channel, and isn't about to relocate to Lapeer County. On top of that, you have two busy international border crossings, and a busy railroad and highway network centered in the City of Detroit. These assets are fixed-in-place.

2. The federal, state, and local governments have spent untold BILLIONS of dollars over the years "encouraging" people and businesses to move out of Detroit and into the orchards. We now know this was misguided. It is no coincidence that the Southeastern Michigan region has lost economic competitiveness as it has sprawled ever-outward and bled the City of Detroit. There is only so much tax revenue to go around to support all the redundant school buildings, police departments, fiefdom governments, parks, utilities and transportation infrastructure. You can keep building ever-new duplicitous networks, or you can fix what is existing.

If your toilet breaks or your roof leaks, you wouldn't build a brand new house and abandon the old one in place, would you?

3. Detroit handles a disproportionate percentage of the region's mentally ill, unemployed, homeless, destitute, and disabled, all so people like you can live in a Leave It To Beaver episode where bad things only happen to Other People.

[iheartthed]

To add to that, the city has shown zero accountability for the funds they've received over 50 years. "But this time it's different. Promise!" Try that with a credit card company after you've missed payments, defaulted or filed for bankruptcy. Ha! This whole idea that the region "needs" Detroit to prosper is bologna. Connecticut's major cities are violent, historically Washington D.C. has been horrible yet is surrounded by the most affluent counties in the nation, I could go on and on.

Connecticut's major city is in another state.

[313WX]

The region isn't broke and bankrupt, Detroit is. The region doesn't want to go bankrupt trying to fix Detroit. Why throw good money after bad?

Yeah, the region's doing fine, except for the fact

*Oakland County is no longer a top 25 wealthiest county in the country.

*The population numbers have been stuck at just over 4 million since 1970.

*Metro Detroit has fallen from the 4th largest region in the country to the 12th largest [[at best).

*48% of all college graduates in Michigan have left the state or are planning to leave the state altogether.

*Wayne County [[you know, that county where the voters also consists of residents from the "fine" communities of Grosse Pointe, Livonia, Canton, Plymouth, Northville, etc.) is about to head into bankruptcy court right behind Detroit.

But yeah, other than that, the region's doing fine, or at least better than that hell hole Detoilet...

[ghettopalmetto]

People build where there's a demand. There's a demand because of certain situations in their current local. There are certain situations in their current local because of neglect and poor leadership. It's a chain of events that causes ticky-tacky homes and highways to be built.

Demand by whom? Pulte Homes? No one was demanding to live in a far-flung locale like Auburn Hills or Utica back in the 1950s. What changed since then?

What's interesting is the effect that government investment has on demand. If you build no roads, no water lines, no schools...there isn't going to be much demand to live in such a place, is there?

[jimmyr]

If your toilet breaks or your roof leaks, you wouldn't build a brand new house and abandon the old one in place, would you?

More like if the toilet breaks, the roof leaks, the house contains a crap ton of asbestos, your copper was stolen while on vacation, your auto and house insurance is $1000 a month, your schools are crap and the police take an hour to respond and all of your friends have moved to Clarkston and Rochester Hills or down south. In that case yes you do cut bait and leave, which is what everyone has done. Detroit was a boomtown for 50 years, we can all appreciate that period of time. But getting hung up on nostalgia and trying to recapture that glory is a most futile use of time and resources.

[dtowncitylover]

Furthermore, Detroit's been given a hell of a lot of money since the Lyndon B. Johnson administration, and it's gotten a hell of a lot worse.

How much money has Detroit received? It wasn't alone in getting Great Society money. We haven't been bailed out like New York City. I would say there is a difference between federal loans and grants for tinker projects like buses and new street lights than a full-fledged government bailout. New York was given a bailout and within 10 years was a fully functional city again. I'm not saying we need a government bailout, but sometimes money is the answer. I love how you criticized M-1 Rail as a boondoggle, well if we had the MONEY, we probably could've built the original Jefferson to 8 Mile light rail. That would've done more good!

And isn't Michigan a state that gives more money to the feds than it receives back? [[Forgot the term) There are plenty of other cities that get more money than us that are doing just fine.

[/QUOTE]Nobody else believes the city will make a comeback.[/QUOTE]

I know and I've read alot of people who want to see Detroit comeback. Why would anyone want to see a city die? Because they don't like black people? Poor people? That's just sick!

And not all companies can invest in the city, but there are plenty of multi-national corporations with their presence in the Detroit market, my company is one them. Couldn't believe they had an office here, but happy they did because I finally got a job. I'll say yes Detroit doesn't have the cache it did 50 years ago, but it's still an important business center.

[jimmyr]

...

Detroit was bailed out. I'm fairly certain GM and Chrysler received exponentially more in total than NYC ever received from the federal government. Furthermore, NYC had competent people in charge and people believed it would bounce back. Detroit is famous because it was the birthplace of cars...100 years ago. In 2014 it's a flyover with a national rep as a crime, illiteracy and corruption capital. That's not racism, that's a rep Detroit has earned. The reality is that nobody in the nation sees a promising or bullish future for Detroit, nor have we given them one reason to.

[313WX]

And isn't Michigan a state that gives more money to the feds than it receives back? [[Forgot the term)

Donor state?

Not since the collapse of the Auto Industry...

[FlyOnTheWall]

Detroit is famous because it was the birthplace of cars...100 years ago. In 2014 it's a flyover with a national rep as a crime, illiteracy and corruption capital. That's not racism, that's a rep Detroit has earned. The reality is that nobody in the nation sees a promising or bullish future for Detroit, nor have we given them one reason to.

You nailed it. Though I'd put your words in order of importance. Corruption, crime, and illiteracy. With these problems feeding on one another, Detroit will continue its downward spiral.

[dtowncitylover]

Detroit was bailed out. I'm fairly certain GM and Chrysler received exponentially more in total than NYC ever received from the federal government. Furthermore, NYC had competent people in charge and people believed it would bounce back. Detroit is famous because it was the birthplace of cars...100 years ago. In 2014 it's a flyover with a national rep as a crime, illiteracy and corruption capital. That's not racism, that's a rep Detroit has earned. The reality is that nobody in the nation sees a promising or bullish future for Detroit, nor have we given them one reason to.

Are you serious? There is a difference between Detroit the city and Detroit the automakers. What GM/Chrysler got did nothing for the city government/services. That's like saying the NYC got a bailout in 2008 when we gave the big banks money. That's ridiculous!

I know we're not NYC relevant, but we're not irrelevant. We are still a metro are of 4-5 million [[depending on how many counties you want to add) with a vital international border, one of the best universities in the world, and home to many companies, besides the Big 3.

I'm going to reiterate again: All of our problems can be solved. Everything is going to be OK. [[Trust me, I always get upset at this area, where provincialism, ignorance, apathy, lethargy rule the day, but there are more people out there who want to see and work to see Detroit's comeback. If you don't want to be a part of it great, just don't claim you were there when it happens)

And yes 313WX, that's it. Though I think we still are. I don't think the bailout counts because it was financial help toward private companies, while I think it's based on public state/local funding from federal sources.

[sumas]

I always find everyones comments interesting. Sure wish more of it was positive though.

[dtowncitylover]

You nailed it. Though I'd put your words in order of importance. Corruption, crime, and illiteracy. With these problems feeding on one another, Detroit will continue its downward spiral.

And these are problems that can be solved and I would say the first two are being actively combated against to the best of DPD and other agencies' abilities. Illiteracy could be fought against if we didn't have such an underfunded and weak school system that's competing with the charter school system, which it shouldn't have to.

[jimmyr]

The bailout of Chrysler and GM was absolutely a bailout of Detroit. Even the national media called it that.