When it's all said and done... Detroit - Renaissance or Continuing Decline?

**A2Mike** · April-29-14, 07:17 AM

I used to care about the DIA keeping its collection intact but it's overwhelmingly evident that the residents of Detroit did not, electing and re-electing the same city officials who jeopardized the DIA and every other thing of value in the city with profligate spending unsupported by offsetting revenues. They obviously didn't value the art and they deserve to see it go - to Silicon Valley, the Getty, Sydney, Hong Kong, some maybe even back to Europe, any place where the citizenry know enough at least to keep it out of reach of squalid politicians [[pardon the redundancy). Maybe we can even get a few items for our little museum here in Ann Arbor. There were for me only two remaining reasons to go into Detroit, the DIA and John King's bookstore, and now it seems that only King's may survive. I guess the DIA building will may a nice exhibit space for WSU's art department.

**Honky Tonk** · April-29-14, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Has this forum become Detroit's funeral? Maybe that's what it's always been.

Maybe it just adjusted from Detroit Fantasyland to Detroit Reality World.

**mwilbert** · April-29-14, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by A2Mike

I used to care about the DIA keeping its collection intact but it's overwhelmingly evident that the residents of Detroit did not, electing and re-electing the same city officials who jeopardized the DIA and every other thing of value in the city with profligate spending unsupported by offsetting revenues. They obviously didn't value the art and they deserve to see it go - to Silicon Valley, the Getty, Sydney, Hong Kong, some maybe even back to Europe, any place where the citizenry know enough at least to keep it out of reach of squalid politicians [[pardon the redundancy). Maybe we can even get a few items for our little museum here in Ann Arbor. There were for me only two remaining reasons to go into Detroit, the DIA and John King's bookstore, and now it seems that only King's may survive. I guess the DIA building will may a nice exhibit space for WSU's art department.

This isn't really a sensible argument. The people who elected the bad mayors/council didn't have any idea that they were endangering the DIA's collection, assuming most of them cared, which is unclear to me. The more interesting thing is that they were voting for bad police protection, bad EMS response, etc. I'm pretty sure the DIA wasn't really on the list.

As has been pointed out many times, the city can't be forced to sell the art in bankruptcy, the city probably doesn't have the right to sell most of it, and the bankruptcy judge hasn't seemed very amenable to the notion of it being sold. That doesn't mean it couldn't end up happening, but it doesn't seem like the most likely outcome.

jimmyr · April-29-14, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

The people who elected the bad mayors/council didn't have any idea that they were endangering the DIA's collection, assuming most of them cared, which is unclear to me.

The illiteracy and drop-out rates in Detroit suggest the average resident can't identify a van Gogh.

**canuck** · April-29-14, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyr

The illiteracy and drop-out rates in Detroit suggest the average resident can't identity a van Gogh.

You right, they probbly can't identity [[sic) a van Gogh [[sic) on accounta their illitrassy. Ass what I think.

**A2Mike** · April-29-14, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyr

The illiteracy and drop-out rates in Detroit suggest the average resident can't identify a van Gogh.

Much less pronounce it.

**iheartthed** · April-29-14, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

This isn't really a sensible argument. The people who elected the bad mayors/council didn't have any idea that they were endangering the DIA's collection, assuming most of them cared, which is unclear to me. The more interesting thing is that they were voting for bad police protection, bad EMS response, etc. I'm pretty sure the DIA wasn't really on the list.

Have Detroit voters really been voting for bad services? Am I understanding you correctly?

jimmyr · April-29-14, 09:52 AM

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-properties-in

Default rate on Metro Detroit commercial property in March 2014 was over double the national average. Not exactly tide changing news.

**iheartthed** · April-29-14, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyr

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-properties-in

Default rate on Detroit commercial property in March 2014 was over double the national average. Not exactly tide changing news.

Metropolitan Detroit.

jimmyr · April-29-14, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Metropolitan Detroit.

Unless you have data that shows the rate is better in Detroit proper, what's your point? I'd bet Detroit proper rate is higher, so the "metro Detroit" rate is propped up by the burbs. Either way, the region isn't doing well.

**sumas** · April-29-14, 11:15 AM

I keep saying over and over. On the few occasions I have needed police they have come promptly and Ems just saved my husbands life this past week.

If I have a grump it is over trash pick up. I have the best neighbors in the world. Life in Detroit is not what people keep saying. There are issues for sure but quit being vultures circling.

**iheartthed** · April-29-14, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyr

Unless you have data that shows the rate is better in Detroit proper, what's your point? I'd bet Detroit proper rate is higher, so the "metro Detroit" rate is propped up by the burbs. Either way, the region isn't doing well.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...7-7-percentage

jimmyr · April-29-14, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...7-7-percentage

You realize default rate and vacancy rate are two different things, right? Related? Possibly. What I asked you for? No.

**jt1** · April-29-14, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyr

You realize default rate and vacancy rate are two different things, right? Related? Possibly. What I asked you for? No.

So you make the assumption but task others with giving you proof? You are making the assertions, the proof is on you.

**TheUsualSuspect** · April-29-14, 11:51 AM

I've been fooled by Detroit for probably twenty years now. Every time I think it's hit bottom and is poised for a rebound, it hits another bottom.

I had thought Dennis Archer was the beginning of the rebound, but unfortunately he didn't have the stomach for a 2nd term. Then we had Kwame...and another rock bottom.

I feel a little like Charlie Brown hoping Lucy finally holds that football for a good kick.

I never would have thought Detroit voters would have voted in a white mayor. I simply couldn't see it happening in my lifetime. Then it happened.

I'm cautiously optomistic again. We'll never be the big city we once were, but I'm hoping Detroit can stabilize as a medium sized metropolitan area, with big city remnants.

The family unit will need to re-form itself along with stronger neighborhoods and improved schools. 2-parent households which drive home the importance of education and a work ethic. There are footholds of this in the city, but it's not as pervasive as it will need to be in order to make the city-proper a desirable place to live.

I include the city leaders and its residents in my nightly prayers. Good things happen in Detroit, but there is still far too much tragedy.

**iheartthed** · April-29-14, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyr

You realize default rate and vacancy rate are two different things, right? Related? Possibly. What I asked you for? No.

Very closely related. Stop being dense. You're the one who tried to make a point that Detroit [[city of) was not getting better.

jimmyr · April-29-14, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Very closely related. Stop being dense. You're the one who tried to make a point that Detroit [[city of) was not getting better.

It's not. You went out of your way to "correct" a post, implying the metro region was responsible for the current default rate.

**Honky Tonk** · April-29-14, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect

I feel a little like Charlie Brown hoping Lucy finally holds that football for a good kick.

Analogy of the week!

**motz** · April-29-14, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyr

It's not. You went out of your way to "correct" a post, implying the metro region was responsible for the current default rate.

And you haven't posted any data showing that the rate of Metro vs Detroit proper are any different. Until you post that data, all you're doing is just vomiting mouth words that fit your "Detroit sucks and isn't coming back" argument. Driving through Troy/Southfield/etc, I am the opposite of surprised that the default rate is that high. Far too much office space built during boom times, not enough companies to fill it. That means no rent, no revenue means default.

**Oddz313** · April-29-14, 06:30 PM

Archer served 2 terms, he did not have the stomach for a third term. One of his last bits on legislation was getting rid of the residency rule for city employees which in turn helped many of the middle class residents make the choice to move away from the city. One of places most effected by this was the area by eastland where many cops lived. Not saying that it defines his legacy.

**mwilbert** · April-29-14, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Have Detroit voters really been voting for bad services? Am I understanding you correctly?

Yes, but not on purpose. They have repeatedly voted for people who not only actually didn't provide good services, but gave no reason to think would even try to provide good services or be capable of managing themselves, much less a city. However, I don't think that they were deliberately trying to avoid getting good services, I think they were choosing candidates based upon other criteria. I also don't think they were voting about the management of the DIA, which was my primary point.

**sumas** · April-29-14, 11:58 PM

Sometimes I wonder about this board. Our police are the finest trained in the country. Our fire fighters the bravest, EMS fantastic. My neighbors so better educated than most on this board. So quit dissing.

Be proactive, nobody argues Detroit has huge problems. So many of us work with our kids. It is dismal to see Yes turned into anti Detroit.

**Dan Wesson** · April-30-14, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

Sometimes I wonder about this board. Our police are the finest trained in the country. Our fire fighters the bravest, EMS fantastic. My neighbors so better educated than most on this board. So quit dissing.

Be proactive, nobody argues Detroit has huge problems. So many of us work with our kids. It is dismal to see Yes turned into anti Detroit.

Yeah... all you nattering nabobs of negativity!

[[chumming the waters) ;-)

**sumas** · April-30-14, 03:22 AM

Absolutely,have dialog. Just quit dissing us. I could walk away in a heart beat. I do not want to. I love my home, my neighbors, my neighborhood. I am now rather fond of my DY cyber stalker. Kind of flattering some bozo has gone to such length to make me look foolish on a different board.

I truly, truly, believe in Detroit rebounding in some fashion. It is for the next generation to figure that out. We do indeed have area children that are challenged but our village works hard to assist.

**sumas** · April-30-14, 03:49 AM

I could bring a busload of kids to the next DY picnic, rather take them to GSCC. Which I have done. MY KIDS have value and courage despite home issues. They are valued by a community. Oops forgot this is Detroit so don't believe me

Always welcome outside support. Just get tired of people long gone being negative.